In my native language, we use an idiom to warn someone that they're doing something which has no result at the end:
Trying to convince him is like squashing water ...
Is there any idiom in English with the same meaning?
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14I would note that most English speakers will likely understand your translated "squashing water" comment - as a matter of fact, I am going to try to remember that, that's great!– DQdlMCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 10:08
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18Raising teenagers has been described as nailing Jell-o to a tree.– cornbread ninja 麵包忍者Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 12:47
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4In mine, it's carrying water to sea.– reinierpostCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 13:05
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6Rather than finding an idiom to substitute, you could just say "pointless".– Steven RumbalskiCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 17:53
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3One of my favourites is pissing into the wind, though this can carry the further implication that trying to achieve the task could actually result in you making things worse for yourself.– Graham SnyderCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 20:00
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28 Answers
There are a few idioms like that. One is:
You're just beating your head against the wall.
another is
Like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.
and another is:
It's like trying to herd cats.
They each are used is slightly different situations. To be most analogous to your expression it sounds like I'd use the first one: Trying to convince him is like beating your head against the wall
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28I'm (UK) more familiar with blood from a stone, rather than turnip.– WudangCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 10:53
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11Just FYI, another British English difference: in the UK the first one is nearly always phrased "...against a brick wall", not "...against the wall". In my experience.– callumCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 12:07
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13For me, "herding cats" implies that it's difficult or exasperating, but lacks an element of pointlessness. I sometimes describe setting up meetings with busy colleagues as "trying to herd cats", but I do want to meet with them--it's just hard to get all of them to agree on a time and place. Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 15:35
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6If you're referring specifically to talking/convincing a person, another common idiom is like talking to a brick wall.– ajkCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 16:46
Sisyphean labor. "Sisyphean" means endless and unavailing, as labor or a task. Comes from Greek mythology, Sisyphus was made to roll a giant boulder up a mountain as punishment by the gods, but the boulder would always roll down before he could get it to the top, forcing him to begin the pointless exercise anew.
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6I LOVE Greek and Roman mythology. They had some cruel punishments in Hades. My favorite was Tantalus who was placed in water up to his neck but if he tried to drink, it would drain away. And there was delicious food floating around his head that would fly out of reach if he tried to grab it. It's where we get Tantalize from. Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 14:43
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To add to the other good examples:
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
This is my goto for these situations because I think it really creates a nice visual of futility.
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4It does but it also conveys a vision of impending catastrophe which does not appear relevant. Still a nice image though.– WudangCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 10:46
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@Wudang interesting point. When I have used this, I never really thought about the sinking as a pending catastrophe but rather just a very significant issue that was being ignored in favor of busying oneself with a futile task.– DQdlMCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 14:19
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One of my bosses had a saying for that..."killing the fly on the wall instead of removing the shit from the room" but I don't think it quite matches what the OP is asking. +1 anyway because I like the image...especially on the centennial of the sinking. Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 14:44
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1I've always thought "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" is intended to convey not merely a sense of futility but more specifically of focusing on the mundane in the face of an overwhelming need to focus on something much more pressing. "Fiddling while Rome burns" conveys the same meaning to me. Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 23:01
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There are very many idioms that you could use for a Sisyphean task. Take your pick.
I think the most generally applicable would be "pushing water uphill with a rake".
If you want to say that you're doing the right thing, but you're doing it too late to have any effect, you'd say "shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted". This is sometimes known as "stable door shutting" for short.
If you want to say that there are too many unpredictable factors to make your task possible, you'd talk about "herding cats".
If you want to say that you're trying unsuccessfully to get someone to do something or give you something, this is "trying to get blood out of a stone".
Plus all the other excellent suggestions in the other answers here.
Perhaps:
It's a fool's errand
I would use ... like beating (or flogging) a dead horse
It even has its own wikipedia entry
I would not use Jim's suggestion beating my head against the wall with the word like - so
I am banging my head against the wall trying to convince him
Trying to convince him is like flogging a dead horse.
are two ways of expressing your problem
If the original is Water naar de zee dragen then it is a Sisyphean task
answered Apr 13, 2012 at 8:47
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10Beating a dead horse has a different meaning. Beating a dead horse means that the topic has been thoroughly covered and there's no more use in going over it any more. I've never used it heard in this context.– KevinCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 13:31
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Look at the WP entry: Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, ... would be like trying to flog a dead horse to make it pull a load Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 13:41
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1Interesting, maybe BE and AE have different but very similar idioms.– KevinCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 13:49
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@kevin: I think your interpretation of the idiom is the same. The reason there is no use going over it is that it won't move.– horatioCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 16:05
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1@horatio - Q:What do you call a dead dog? A:Doesn't matter. He won't answer anyway.– MT_HeadCommented Apr 29, 2012 at 18:34
Like trying to carry water in a sieve
Like trying to empty the sea with a thimble
UPDATE
I did a search for "is like trying to convince a" and came up with a lot of really amusing results:
like trying to convince a cat it wants to go swimming.
like trying to convince a cat anything.
like trying to convince a two-year-old that a shot won't hurt.
like trying to convince a five-year-old that vegetables taste like candy.
like trying to convince a pacifist that violence solves everything.
like trying to convince people that "white trash" is derogatory and "redneck" isn't.
like trying to convince a mouse that the cat is her best friend.
like trying to convince a corpse that physical therapy is the only answer to its problem.
like trying to convince a newborn that crying is illogical.
like trying to convince a scientist that the moon is really made of green cheese.
Depending on context, Pissing in the wind.
answered Apr 13, 2012 at 8:57
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Good phrase, but it's not quite the same: it means a problematic/precarious task – slightly different from a pointless exercise like squashing water, which doesn't achieve anything. You might end up covered in piss, but you've still had a piss.– callumCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 12:22
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In the native language of OP, there is an equivalent idiom: Pissing on a solid ground.– B FaleyCommented Apr 13, 2012 at 13:11
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1Pissing in the wind is not a problem. As long as you do it down wind and not into the wind. Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 20:52
I like
trying to push on a rope
to express doing something in a way that is clearly not going to produce the desired results.
In the specific case that you are trying to convince to someone who will not listen, you are talking to a brick wall or a blank wall.
answered Apr 14, 2012 at 2:54
English is not my native language
However, some time ago I read something like taking coals to Newcastle.
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No, sorry. I see why you read it that way but the main idea is that you're doing something unnecessary because it's superfluous or already done.– WudangCommented Apr 14, 2012 at 12:58
Something that fits and has not yet been mentioned:
It's like swimming in treacle*
*Substitute treacle for your local high-viscosity liquid.
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Treacle (a.k.a. molasses) might be considered low-viscosity compared to honey however, compared to the most abundant liquid, namely water, it's relatively high-viscosity.– ChrisCommented Nov 13, 2012 at 5:09
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is what I use. As in a car that's stuck in the mud or a bank of snow.
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This particular answer/phrase implies there is a potential result possible but it is being thwarted by some circumstance.– O.M.Y.Commented Feb 9, 2015 at 2:03
pounding sand
Usually used in the context of assigning useless busy work to keep employees busy when there's no real work to do.
answered Apr 13, 2012 at 17:21
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1I see that phrase used a lot more often as a nasty form of 'go away' with implications of doing something stupid/dangerous instead of merely pointless. phrases.org.uk/meanings/go-pound-sand.html Commented Apr 13, 2012 at 18:58
You're on a hiding to nothing trying to convince him.
It means that your possible outcomes range from heavy defeat (a hiding) to nothing, and they exclude even a minor victory. It's not quite as evocative as other idioms, but it's commonly used.
An example would be "a wild goose chase". An example of the use of this is:
I tried to tell him he was going on a wild-goose chase.
The Online English Wiktionary states that:
Early recorded use refers to a type of 16th century horse race where everyone had to try to follow the erratic course of the lead horse, like wild geese have to follow their leader in formation.
answered Apr 13, 2012 at 19:39
Shooting at the sun
Shooting at the moon
Killing a Dodo
Racing a Cheetah
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Barking up the wrong tree
Wikipedia: if you are barking up the wrong tree, it means that you have completely misunderstood something or are totally wrong.
answered Apr 15, 2012 at 8:41
"Tilting at windmills" a reference to Don Quixote who imagined the windmills to be giants attacking a village.
There is a very similar idiom in English, treading water, but it doesn't exactly fit into the sentence you've provided. It means working very hard yet achieving nothing.
We've tried to fix it, but it's as if we're treading water.
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I always thought that treading water meant an idle task, as you don't get anywhere. I don't see where your "working very hard" comes from.– ChrisCommented Nov 13, 2012 at 5:19
Man I tell you what, I felt like A one legged cat try'in to burry turds on A frozen pond out there.
-Tom Anderson from Beavis and Butthead
answered Apr 13, 2012 at 14:19
There is a plethora of expressions you could use for this, but I've compiled a list of phrases that I've heard which I don't think anyone else has put in their answers. Here are a few of them...
- spitting in a lake/ocean
- emptying the ocean
- digging to China
- convincing a woman
- spinning your wheels
- talking to a wall
- sweeping a dirt floor
- spitting in the desert
- listening to a rock
- burying a house
- kicking water
- putting the kettle in the fridge
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Some might consider it derogatory, unlike other idioms mentioned.– Luke_0Commented Jul 30, 2012 at 23:16
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Putting the kettle in the fridge? I fail to see how that fits the criteria.– Luke_0Commented Jul 31, 2012 at 17:50
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Hey Luke, welcome to English SE. Perhaps it is called a teakettle wherever you come from. Anyway, the point of a kettle is to keep things hot. Putting it in the fridge is kind of pointless. There is a English language SE for people who are new to the language if you would like to look into that. Commented Jul 31, 2012 at 18:10
How about "He might as well be pissing on a forest fire" ? Totally futile.
Here are two from Sting's "Be Still My Beating Heart" (from ...Nothing Like the Sun [1987]):
"Never to be wrong,
Never to make promises to break.
It's like singing in the wind.
Or writing on the surface of a lake."
I came here to add "Pissing in the wind," as that's quite common, but already mentioned. However, I haven't yet seen "Pissing up a rope" mentioned. That one is sometimes used as an insult (e.g. "He can go piss up a rope"). It's possibly a corruption of "pushing a rope," also a fairly futile thing to attempt.
I think "talking to a wall" is a good option, especially if you rephrase your original slightly: "Talking to a wall would be as effective as trying to convince him of anything."
DUST IN THE WIND
If the intent of the usage is to point out the non-durability of one's efforts, which is to say that what we do will vanish in time, then the song "Dust in the Wind" by the musical group KANSAS provides (uses) phrases like:
- Everything is dust in the wind
- All we do crumbles to the ground
- Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
Beat the air or beat the wind - to carry on making futile efforts. In my native language, we`ve an identical idiom in meaning. Crush/squash the water.
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Welcome to ELU, please consider adding sources to support your answers.– JJJCommented Mar 25, 2018 at 19:49
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a lost cause
lost cause
a cause with no chance of success
Collins Dictionary
answered Mar 25, 2018 at 19:43
The closest thing I can think of to "squishing water" is "nailing jello to a wall".
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/nail+Jell-O+to+the+wall
nail Jell-O to the wall phr. to do something that is totally futile. (Jell-O is a protected trade name.) You’re wasting your time. Trying to get him to do that is like nailing Jell-O to the wall.
