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Consider a thought experiment (that I made when I was in high school) involving a universe with only two objects: a massive planet and a small asteroid. Initially, they are millions of light-years apart, with the asteroid slowly moving away from the planet at a velocity exceeding the escape velocity at that distance (1 cm/century). Assume only Newtonian mechanics , with no relativity or universal expansion.

Suppose we have the ability to nudge the asteroid slightly towards the planet, giving it a minuscule velocity of 1 cm/millennium. Despite the minimal nudge, the asteroid will eventually be pulled back towards the planet due to their mutual gravity, ultimately colliding with significant kinetic energy. My question is: Where does this energy come from?

If we calculated the total mechanical energy (the sum of kinetic and potential energy) of the system in the initial state, when the asteroid and the planet are very far apart and the asteroid is moving away from the planet, we would get a very small positive value. But when we change the direction of the asteroid slightly towards the planet, we create a situation where the mechanical energy becomes very large and negative, because the potential energy becomes very large and negative as the asteroid approaches the planet. How is this possible? How can we create so much energy by just changing the direction of the asteroid a little bit?

I understand that there is still some gravitational potential energy between the asteroid and the planet even when they are very far apart, but it is very close to zero. As the asteroid moves closer to the planet, its speed increases because its potential energy becomes more negative and its kinetic energy becomes more positive. The total mechanical energy remains constant because gravity is a conservative force (it does not dissipate or create energy). When the asteroid reaches the surface of the planet, its speed reaches a maximum value because its potential energy reaches a minimum value .

But I still have some hard time believing that this is how it works, because it seems like we are creating energy out of nothing by just changing the direction of the asteroid, also that means that I have a potential energy from every galaxy or star in the universe and pretty much every object has also potential energy to something that they will never reach by gravity.

Following the logic above, wouldn't every object in the universe have potential energy with respect to every other object, even distant galaxies? Does this imply a vast amount of "unusable" potential energy throughout the universe, forever locked away and never convertible to other forms? In this hypothetical scenario, there is no way for anyone on the planet to know that there is potential energy stored in some too-far-to-see asteroid. The existence of this potential energy doesn't affect the planet's current state or its ability to perform measurements.

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    $\begingroup$ A lot of people would like to know the answer to this $\endgroup$
    – RC_23
    Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 1:02
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    $\begingroup$ I really don’t understand the downvotes. This is a perfectly reasonable question that a student could ask. I remember struggling with that in high school. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 9:16
  • $\begingroup$ Some comments. When the two objects collide, the potential energy is not $-\infty$. The two bodies have positive radii, so their centers of mass cannot precisely overlap. The kinetic energy becomes very large, the potential energy becomes very negative, but they are both finite and they sum up to zero. If instead you assume that the two bodies have no radii (they are points), then if they overlap, the kinetic energy becomes $+\infty$ and the potential energy becomes $-\infty$ (the sum has to be zero, so the kinetic energy cannot remain finite). $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 9:22
  • $\begingroup$ “ Does that mean there are a lot of energy in the universe that is totally lost as it is in form of potential energy that will never turn to kinetic energy or any other form of energy?” it is possible. If you leave a loaded mouse trap in your garage, but there is no mouse, it will keep its potential energy indefinitely, until someone will intervene and cause it to convert that stored energy into… a lot of pain. It is precisely the same thing, except the gravitational energy is confusing because it can become negative. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 9:28

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The gravitational potential energy is stored in the asteroid and planet system.

Turning the asteroid round makes absolutely no difference to the gravitational potential energy stored by the system as long as the asteroid to planet distance is unchanged.

On arrival at the planet the asteroid and planet system has less gravitational potential energy and more kinetic energy.

The total energy of the system, the sum of gravitational potential energy and kinetic energy, stays the same at all times.

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My answer

I understand that there is still some gravitational potential energy between the asteroid and the planet even when they are very far apart, but it is very close to zero.

So, the short answer is that the potential energy of gravity does not represent the available energy of the universe. In fact:

  1. it can become negative and still be “available”, that is, convertible into kinetic energy
  2. (somewhat related) it is only defined up to an additive constant (like any other kind of potential energy), so its value does not represent anything physical. In particular, the value $0$ represents nothing special from the physical point of view, and is set somewhat arbitrarily (like the temperature $0\operatorname{° \!C}$, the calendar year $0$,…).
  3. in the mathematical model (not in reality), the total "available energy" that the gravitational attraction has is theoretically infinite assuming the two objects are point particles (*), because the potential energy does not have a minimum value and can reduce indefinitely. More precisely, two point particles with positive mass, under the gravitational force, are basically an infinite source of energy from the point of view of classical mechanics (point particles have no radius). That is admittedly mind-blowing and weird, but it is just a feature of the too simple mathematical model.

From this, the fact that the potential and kinetic energies at the initial time are zero is completely irrelevant to “the total energy of the universe” (whatever that is). It would be like watching your phone, noticing that we are in $2023$, and saying “Wow, the universe is just $2023$ years old! It is a very small time!”. It is just not what the date is meant to indicate… The calendar date (like the time on the clock, the Celsius and Farenheit scales, etc.) can be negative (before Christ) in the same way as the potential energy can become negative. And the calendar date is not “absolute” in the same way as the potential energy is not defined absolutely: it is defined only up to an additive constant. And it is not meant to indicate the amount of existing or “available” energy: it is just used to compute the work of the gravitational force, like we use the calendar to compute how much time has passed between two events.

Another example: there can be heat conduction from a source at $0\operatorname{° \!C}$ to another object at $-100\operatorname{° \!C}$, despite the first "having zero temperature". This is because zero temperature does not mean zero available energy, and the temperature can go below zero (Celsius!). (the difference is that there exists a minimum temperature, while there does not exist a minimum gravitational potential energy, this is why the asteroid can theoretically gain infinite kinetic energy).

In short. Energy is not created from nothing; the fact that the initial energy is zero does not mean that "there is no available potential energy"; in fact it means nothing, sinice you can rescale the potential energy as you like by an additive constant. The actual strange feature is that there is no theoretical limit on how much potential energy can be converted into kinetic energy.

Below, many more details in case you want to dig a little bit deeper into the math and you feel like you need to read more.


(*) In practice, though, if the two bodies have positive radii, the distance between the two centers of mass cannot become less than the sum of the radii before the collision, hence the potential energy cannot really drop to $-\infty$ (see the last part of the answer for the details). I would say, the available energy is theoretically infinite, but practically finite, because the limit depends on how large the asteroid and the planet are, not on anything “fundamental” or fixed, like their masses. (With more sophisticated physical models, the total available energy is likely not even infinite in the first place, but one would have to take into account general relativity, event horizons,… It becomes really messy.)



Many more details

The potential energy is defined up to a constant

In the case of gravitational attraction, it is a very standard thing to do to set the additive constant in such a way that the potential energy approaches zero when the bodies are very far apart: that is, we set the potential energy $U$ as $$ U(r)=-\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r}, $$ (here $m_1,m_2$ are the two masses, $G$ is the universal gravitational constant, $r$ is the distance between the two objects’ centers of mass). But it would be perfectly fine to add any fixed constant to the potential energy: the quantity $$ \widetilde U(r)=-\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r}+ 75400,86\operatorname{Joule} $$ is still a perfectly valid and usable potential energy for the gravitational force. We can use both potential energies in our physics computations, because what really matters is always $\Delta U=U(t_2)-U(t_1)$, i.e., differences of potential energy at two different times, not the specific value of the potential energy (when you take differences, any additive constant (like $75400,86\operatorname{Joule}$) cancels out, that is, $\Delta U=\Delta \widetilde U$). Recall that $-\Delta U$ coincides with the amount of work $W$ produced by the force between the times $t_1$ and $t_2$: the potential energy is just a mathematical tool used to compute the amount of work produced by the force. This is why $\Delta U$ matters more than the actual values of $U$. The actual values of the function $U$ represent nothing physical.

So, it makes no sense to say that the energy at initial time is “small”. The potential energy approaching zero when two bodies are far apart does not mean that the universe has no available energy. In fact, it is perfectly fine that the potential energy becomes more and more negative, while the kinetic energy grows (positive). Once you understand this, I write below some more comments.

Fun fact (before we continue). If the planet has radius $R$, then there is another very natural choice to define the potential energy: $$ U(r)=-Gm_1m_2\left(\frac{1}{r}-\frac{1}{R}\right)= \frac{Gm_1m_2}{R}\left(1-\frac{R}{r}\right). $$ That is, you define it to be zero when $r=R$: you consider the asteroid to have $0$ potential energy when it lies precisely on the surface of the planet. Now you can call $h:=r-R$ the height of the object with respect to the surface, $g:=m_1G/R^2$ the gravitational acceleration on the surface (for the Earth, $g=9,8\,m/s^2$). If you assume that $h$ is small compared to $R$ so that you can approximate $1-R/(h+R)=h/(h+R)\sim h/R$, you obtain a very familiar expression for the gravitational energy: $$ U(r)\sim m_2gh. $$


Potential energy can become negative... And it is not particularly remarkable. The remarkable thing is that it does not have a minimum value

The “total energy of the universe” at initial time and right after you change the direction of the asteroid is essentially the same, because the potential energy is unchanged as well as the kinetic one. And the energy is conserved after that time, all the way to the impact. In short, energy is conserved throughout the whole process.

So, if you think “wow, during the impact I see a lot of energy”, then be sure that the universe already had that energy even before you changed the direction of the asteroid, because energy is conserved. You don’t see it in the potential energy, because the potential energy is not meant to indicate the absolute amount of energy that is available and that can be converted in other forms of energies. Very often this is the case (e.g., the potential energy of a spring), but it is not the case for gravity: even if the initial potential energy is zero, potential energy can be spontaneusly converted into kinetic energy (of course, making the potential energy negative).

The source of your confusion is mainly in the fact that the potential energy of the gravitational force can be negative, so it is not clear how much available energy it possesses. I will tell you more: there is actually no theoretical limit to how negative it can get, and to the amount of energy that can be converted into kinetic energy. The fact that the potential energy can be negative is something that cannot be changed by adding a constant to it, since adding any constant to the potential energy would never be able to make it positive for all values of the distance between the two bodies (the function $ U(r)=-\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r}+c $ will never be positive for all $r$, for how large you choose the additive constant $c$). In other words, the potential energy $U$ is unbounded from below. This feature also implies that, in theory, the asteroid could gain an arbitrarily high kinetic energy if it comes close enough to the planet (in practice this is prevented from the fact that both bodies have a finite radius, so their centers of mass cannot have arbitrarily small distance).


Final note: the energy released from the impact

If we assume the two bodies have radii $r_1$ and $r_2$, and even if we assume they are infinitely far apart, the energy released from the impact will be roughly $$ W=-\Delta U=-(U(r_1+r_2)-U(\infty))=\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r_1+r_2}-0 =\frac{Gm_1m_2}{r_1+r_2}. $$ This means that you don’t really have a way to make the impact more and more violent by putting the two bodies far and far apart at the initial time, and if the radii are non zero there is in practice an upper bound to the energy that can be released from the impact (assuming there is no, or very little initial kinetic energy).

It also means that the potential energy, in practice, does not drop to $-\infty$ at the moment of collision, and if it did that, the kinetic energy will become $+\infty$ (unlike what you wrote above). As I said before, if you just look at the math and you assume that the two objects are point particles (no radii), and if the asteroid heads precisely towards the planet, then during the collision, the kinetic energy does indeed blow up to $+\infty$, and the potential energy drops to $-\infty$. It is essentially like the total energy of the universe is infinite.

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  • $\begingroup$ I have no idea what you mean by the statements "The total "available energy" that the gravitational attraction has is theoretically infinite!" and "Two material points with positive mass are basically an infinite source of energy". You can store arbitrability large quantities of potential energy in arbitrarily large and distant masses, but there is no sense in which gravity provides an inexhaustible, "infinite" source of energy. Even when falling toward each other from a theoretically infinite distance, objects collide with a finite velocity - the escape velocity. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 19:21
  • $\begingroup$ Sure, but the escape velocity depends on the radius of the planet ;) What happens if the planet has no radius and is just a point particle…? If you plug zero radius in the formula for the escape velocity, you see that the escape velocity becomes an interesting number $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 19:45
  • $\begingroup$ I agree that the escape velocity provides an upper bound to the available energy when the radius of the planet is non zero, this is similar to what I wrote in the parentheses and in the final remark at the end. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 19:50
  • $\begingroup$ With zero radius, we find that the escape velocity exceeds $c$ - that alone should tell you this is no longer an application for classical physics. Objects do not accelerate to infinite velocity or obtain infinite kinetic energy when they fall into black hole singularities of zero size. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 19:57
  • $\begingroup$ @NuclearHoagie the OP explicitly asked to ignore relativistic effects, the expansion of the universe, etc. Also, mathematically, the energy a particle can get when colliding with a gravitational singularity can approach infinity in classical mechanics, and I am reasonably sure this is the case also in general relativity even though the velocity is bounded by $c$ (objects with positive mass still need infinite energy to accelerate to speed $c$), although I could be wrong. $\endgroup$ Commented Sep 28, 2023 at 20:13
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But when we change the direction of the asteroid slightly towards the planet, we create a situation where the mechanical energy becomes very large and negative

Why do you think this? The total energy will be almost identical to the previous case.

because the potential energy becomes very large and negative as the asteroid approaches the planet.

The potential energy is lowered, yes. But it is offset by the increase in kinetic energy. So the total mechanical energy remains unchanged.

How can we create so much energy by just changing the direction of the asteroid a little bit?

That did not happen. We converted a lot of potential energy to kinetic energy by moving the two objects together. But the tiny initial change did not significantly change the total mechanical energy.

But I still have some hard time believing that this is how it works, because it seems like we are creating energy out of nothing by just changing the direction of the asteroid.

No, you are transferring potential energy to kinetic energy when the two object move closer together. That's all.

If you calculate the total energy in both of your scenarios (asteroid at a distance moving slightly toward and asteroid at a distance moving slightly away), they will be almost identical.

And also that means that I have a potential energy from every galaxy or star in the universe and pretty much every object has also potential energy to something that they will never reach by gravity.

Yup. If you want to consider them as a system, that is correct. That's why your choice of reference makes a difference. When we consider the gravitational energy of a book on a shelf, where should the zero point be defined? The floor underneath? What if the room is in a high rise? Should it be the ground outside? What if we dug a pit next to the building, should it be the bottom of the pit? These are all arbitrary, just like the potential energy between random astronomical objects are.

In most interactions, it's not productive to worry about the potential energy of the system of the earth and the black hole at the center of the galaxy. There's a lot of energy that could be gained, but we have no mechanism to do so.

It's usually much more useful to worry only about the difference in energy between two states. With the asteroid at $a$ and the asteroid at $b$, what's the difference in potential energy? That gives you useful information like how much kinetic energy it has gained.

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