VivienM join:2002-02-20 Toronto, ON	VivienM to avernar Member 2023-Dec-9 10:08 am to avernar Re: [Internet] Real bridge mode is coming to GigaHub said by avernar: said by philhzss: Only for business customers, I was just told bridge mode is completely disabled and unavailable for residential. They're not going to prevent themselves the opportunity of up-selling TV and Home Phone to people in the future. Home Phone shouldn't be incompatible with bridge mode; certainly in Beanfield land you can have bridge mode and phone service... and I'm pretty sure though not certain the same is true of the Rogers/Comcast gateways. They basically just use a different (private) IP for the SIP client in the gateway while bridging your public IP to your Ethernet port with your router.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 10:08 am · (locked)
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON	mozerd MVM 2023-Dec-9 10:35 am All Rogers Ignite capable gateways have phone ports that work just fine in Bridge mode … the Phone port on the GigaHub in all probability would also work if the GigaHub was bridged …. It’s simply a firmware issue ….
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 10:35 am · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON 1 edit	avernar Member 2023-Dec-9 10:42 am said by mozerd: All Rogers Ignite capable gateways have phone ports that work just fine in Bridge mode … the Phone port on the GigaHub in all probability would also work if the GigaHub was bridged …. It’s simply a firmware issue …. Yeah. Depending how the GH does bridging. It would be great if they bridged the internet VLAN to the 10Gbps port while all the 1Gbps ports still worked for TV.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 10:42 am · (locked)
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON	mozerd MVM 2023-Dec-9 10:57 am said by avernar: Yeah. Depending how the GH does bridging. It would be great if they bridged the internet VLAN to the 10Gbps port while all the 1Gbps ports still worked for TV. It would be far better if they got rid of the “vlans” period …. I suspect that once they have the TV side working properly that specific vlan will disappear and the Internet vlan will also disappear … bridging then makes a lot of sense for many of us ….
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 10:57 am · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON	avernar to VivienM Member 2023-Dec-9 11:05 am to VivienM said by VivienM: Home Phone shouldn't be incompatible with bridge mode; Yup. But since they're restricting it to business I’m guessing something with the way they implemented bridge mode prevents TV and/or phone from working.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 11:05 am · (locked)
avernar 1 edit	avernar to mozerd Member 2023-Dec-9 11:11 am to mozerd said by mozerd: said by avernar: Yeah. Depending how the GH does bridging. It would be great if they bridged the internet VLAN to the 10Gbps port while all the 1Gbps ports still worked for TV. It would be far better if they got rid of the “vlans” period …. I suspect that once they have the TV side working properly that specific vlan will disappear and the Internet vlan will also disappear … bridging then makes a lot of sense for many of us …. For us but not for Bell. In bridge mode the GH wouldn’t be able to make its own PPPoE connection. So without VLANs it couldn’t do phone termination or TV over the hidden WiFi.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 11:11 am · (locked)
alpovs join:2009-08-08	alpovs to avernar Member 2023-Dec-9 11:19 am to avernar said by avernar: said by philhzss: Only for business customers, I was just told bridge mode is completely disabled and unavailable for residential. They're not going to prevent themselves the opportunity of up-selling TV and Home Phone to people in the future. I bet they can revert to routed mode as easily as enable bridge mode.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 11:19 am · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON 1 recommendation	avernar Member 2023-Dec-9 11:41 am said by alpovs: I bet they can revert to routed mode as easily as enable bridge mode. Yes. But that would break that customer's internet setup. So they're just going to avoid that in the first place by not allowing residential bridge mode.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 11:41 am · (locked)
avernar	avernar to VivienM Member 2023-Dec-9 11:45 am to VivienM said by VivienM: Home Phone shouldn't be incompatible with bridge mode; certainly in Beanfield land you can have bridge mode and phone service... and I'm pretty sure though not certain the same is true of the Rogers/Comcast gateways. They basically just use a different (private) IP for the SIP client in the gateway while bridging your public IP to your Ethernet port with your router. Rogers uses a seperate ont and router setup for FTTH. Rogers is also DHCP while Bell is PPPoE. So If Bell just bridges the Internet VLAN and the GH still handles the TV/Phone VLAN then phone should theoretically work. But the GH is a Sagemcom product so I'm expecting bridge mode to prevent the GH from having access to the other VLAN.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 11:45 am · (locked)
alpovs join:2009-08-08	alpovs to avernar Member 2023-Dec-9 12:30 pm to avernar said by avernar: said by alpovs: I bet they can revert to routed mode as easily as enable bridge mode. Yes. But that would break that customer's internet setup. So they're just going to avoid that in the first place by not allowing residential bridge mode. But enabling bridge mode would brake customer's internet setup to begin with. If a tech savvy customer asks for it they know what they are doing and can undo it. I remember reading that HH1000 or HH2000 had bridge mode and people needed to call Bell to enable it.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 12:30 pm · (locked)
techiesar join:2019-03-03 canada 3 recommendations	techiesar to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 12:58 pm to alpovs I can confirm, that Gigahub bridge mode will disable everything including the TV and Phone. If the customer wants to have a TV and Phone, the Bell techs supposed to explain the customer about pppoe passthough. If the customer demand bridgemode then the Bell techs supposed to run a 2nd fiber line and setup a 2nd gigahub for Phone and TV. Someone posted this in Reddit and I confirmed this with the a Bell tech. Of course this is strictly for the Business customers not for residential customers.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 12:58 pm · (locked)

alpovs join:2009-08-08	alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 1:21 pm Is there any way to get it for residential customers, if I don't have and don't care about the TV and phone?
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 1:21 pm · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON 5 recommendations	avernar to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 2:12 pm to alpovs said by alpovs: But enabling bridge mode would brake customer's internet setup to begin with. Another reason for Bell not to allow it. And tech savvy business customers are different from supposed residential tech savvy customers. A residential customer saying "I know what I'm doing" is going to be a tech support nightmare when it turns out they don't know what they're doing.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 2:12 pm · (locked)
alpovs join:2009-08-08 3 recommendations	alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 2:22 pm I bet it's the other way around. Business customers as less tech savvy.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 2:22 pm · (locked)
techiesar join:2019-03-03 canada	techiesar to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 2:31 pm to alpovs said by alpovs: Is there any way to get it for residential customers, if I don't have and don't care about the TV and phone? Yes, but unfortunately residential tech supports and BTS techs are not trained. Business install done by Bell Techs, they were trained and have access to high level access to remote modem setup. You can try Bell direct forum, if someone there still helping customers.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 2:31 pm · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON 3 recommendations	avernar to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-9 2:47 pm to alpovs said by alpovs: I bet it's the other way around. Business customers as less tech savvy. Doesn't matter. Bell can just tell them to go find/hire someone who knows what they're doing. Not going to argue. If you can convince Bell to turn this on for you great.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 2:47 pm · (locked)
alpovs join:2009-08-08	alpovs to techiesar Member 2023-Dec-9 2:47 pm to techiesar I wonder if calling business tech support being a residential customer will get us anywhere.
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 2:47 pm · (locked)
techiesar join:2019-03-03 canada	techiesar Member 2023-Dec-9 3:44 pm said by alpovs: I wonder if calling business tech support being a residential customer will get us anywhere. You can try, before they transfer you to residential explain them why you called..
	actions · 2023-Dec-9 3:44 pm · (locked)
VivienM join:2002-02-20 Toronto, ON	VivienM to avernar Member 2023-Dec-10 3:57 pm to avernar said by avernar: said by VivienM: Home Phone shouldn't be incompatible with bridge mode; certainly in Beanfield land you can have bridge mode and phone service... and I'm pretty sure though not certain the same is true of the Rogers/Comcast gateways. They basically just use a different (private) IP for the SIP client in the gateway while bridging your public IP to your Ethernet port with your router. Rogers uses a seperate ont and router setup for FTTH. Rogers is also DHCP while Bell is PPPoE. So If Bell just bridges the Internet VLAN and the GH still handles the TV/Phone VLAN then phone should theoretically work. But the GH is a Sagemcom product so I'm expecting bridge mode to prevent the GH from having access to the other VLAN. On coax, Rogers now uses a single box - they didn't in the pre-Ignite/Comcast days, but they do now. And that box is believed to do bridged Internet and home phone... It's not that difficult, especially when you realize that these devices all have a management IP as well. Although I'm not sure how Bell's PPPoE plays into the idea of a management IP...
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 3:57 pm · (locked)
VivienM	VivienM to avernar Member 2023-Dec-10 4:01 pm to avernar said by avernar: A residential customer saying "I know what I'm doing" is going to be a tech support nightmare when it turns out they don't know what they're doing. Why would it be any different for Bell than for Rogers, Beanfield, the-cable-company-formerly-known-as-Shaw, or any of the other ISPs who provide all-in-one(ish - Beanfield's don't do wifi) gateways with bridge modes and who have done so for... at least 15 years? I think Cogeco too, although I can't remember if it's Shaw or Cogeco where you have to call to get bridge mode, whereas on Rogers you can change it in the gateway's web interface yourself. (Also, up until some years ago, I think the move to the Helix Comcastic platform in fact, Videotron provided a separate cable modem and a standalone router, so no need for bridge mode there...)
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:01 pm · (locked)
VivienM	VivienM to mozerd Member 2023-Dec-10 4:03 pm to mozerd said by mozerd: said by avernar: Yeah. Depending how the GH does bridging. It would be great if they bridged the internet VLAN to the 10Gbps port while all the 1Gbps ports still worked for TV. It would be far better if they got rid of the “vlans” period …. I suspect that once they have the TV side working properly that specific vlan will disappear and the Internet vlan will also disappear … bridging then makes a lot of sense for many of us …. If Bell moves to doing TV the way Beanfield or Rogers Ignite TV do it, then sure. No more multicast, no more complicated anything, just a plain vanilla unique IP stream for every box... which seems to work through any random NAT router I might add.
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:03 pm · (locked)
mozerd Light Will Pierce The Darkness MVM join:2004-04-23 Nepean, ON	mozerd MVM 2023-Dec-10 4:09 pm No NAT involved with Rogers IPTV …. it’s strictly ipv6 …
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:09 pm · (locked)
VivienM join:2002-02-20 Toronto, ON	VivienM to avernar Member 2023-Dec-10 4:14 pm to avernar said by avernar: said by VivienM: Home Phone shouldn't be incompatible with bridge mode; Yup. But since they're restricting it to business I’m guessing something with the way they implemented bridge mode prevents TV and/or phone from working. Bell did that with the Home Hub 1000s and standalone ONTs, too... there's an official bridge mode only if you're on a business account. The reality is, I think, simpler than that. Bell has been trying very hard to gain market share for the past, oh, 5-6 years in the small-business residential-grade-technology Internet market where I think they had largely been wiped out in the DSL days. They have been very aggressive on pricing and very aggressive on upload speeds, as a friend in Tbaytel territory continually reminds me (Tbaytel maxed out upload speeds on PON-based business Internet at something like 200 megabits and if you want faster, you can have your boss pay for a dedicated circuit, Bell will go a lot higher.) Most half-serious businesses would want to run some kind of dedicated firewall (e.g. SonicWalls), and no one is going to do something unsupported or unsupportedish like PPPoE pass through for a business. Not to mention - they'll sell you a static IP for $30/month or whatever it is, but obviously you can't have two PPPoE sessions if you get a static IP. Even bypassing the HH1000 and directly tagging VLANs, which is easy to do... but why would you do it when it's just going to make your life more difficult calling support. Especially if you add an MSP in the middle. So, for years and years, Bell continued to offer the HH1000 + standalone ONT for business bridged setups, but that maxes out at a gigabit. If others are going to be offering more than gigabit in small-business-land, then Bell needs another option with a bridge mode. Also, do they have a standalone XGSPON-capable ONT, or have all the business clients been stuck on GPON? Meanwhile, they made a decision a long time ago not to give consumers a bridge mode. And they seem to have no desire to revisit that, just like they've never revisited the summer 1999 decision to roll out PPPoE.
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:14 pm · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON	avernar to VivienM Member 2023-Dec-10 4:26 pm to VivienM said by VivienM: On coax, Rogers now uses a single box - they didn't in the pre-Ignite/Comcast days, but they do now. And that box is believed to do bridged Internet and home phone... It's not that difficult, especially when you realize that these devices all have a management IP as well. Although I'm not sure how Bell's PPPoE plays into the idea of a management IP... With DHCP it's possible for an ONT+Router device to get its own IP addresss in bridge mode. With PPPoE the PPPoE passthrough code must be running for the ONT+Router device to get its own IP address. Bridge mode and PPPoE Passthrough are mutually exclusive.
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:26 pm · (locked)
VivienM join:2002-02-20 Toronto, ON	VivienM Member 2023-Dec-10 4:36 pm said by avernar: said by VivienM: On coax, Rogers now uses a single box - they didn't in the pre-Ignite/Comcast days, but they do now. And that box is believed to do bridged Internet and home phone... It's not that difficult, especially when you realize that these devices all have a management IP as well. Although I'm not sure how Bell's PPPoE plays into the idea of a management IP... With DHCP it's possible for an ONT+Router device to get its own IP addresss in bridge mode. With PPPoE the PPPoE passthrough code must be running for the ONT+Router device to get its own IP address. Bridge mode and PPPoE Passthrough are mutually exclusive. But presumably the device could run its own PPPoE session, get an internal/management IP, and not bridge/NAT/etc its Ethernet ports to that PPPoE session. Then bridge and VLAN tag the Ethernet ports to the PON interface.
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:36 pm · (locked)
VivienM	VivienM to mozerd Member 2023-Dec-10 4:37 pm to mozerd said by mozerd: No NAT involved with Rogers IPTV …. it’s strictly ipv6 … I haven't been paying too close attention so I could be wrong, but I thought people had managed to get Ignite TV working on IPv4-only setups using their own routers...
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:37 pm · (locked)
avernar join:2002-05-23 Plattsville, ON 1 recommendation	avernar to VivienM Member 2023-Dec-10 4:54 pm to VivienM said by VivienM: But presumably the device could run its own PPPoE session, get an internal/management IP, and not bridge/NAT/etc its Ethernet ports to that PPPoE session. Then bridge and VLAN tag the Ethernet ports to the PON interface. That's what PPPoE Passthrough already does with a minor difference in that it wouldn't provide Internet service.
	actions · 2023-Dec-10 4:54 pm · (locked)
techiesar join:2019-03-03 canada	techiesar to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-12 5:33 pm to alpovs »www.reddit.com/r/bell/co ··· ge_mode/ more details about bridge mode.
	actions · 2023-Dec-12 5:33 pm · (locked)
Makaveli998 join:2002-04-23 Toronto, ON	Makaveli998 Member 2023-Dec-12 6:01 pm Just read that an doesn't really add anything extra to this story still unsupported for home users.
	actions · 2023-Dec-12 6:01 pm · (locked)
silvestro join:2023-08-11 5 recommendations	silvestro to alpovs Member 2023-Dec-13 7:24 pm to alpovs said by alpovs: I bet it's the other way around. Business customers as less tech savvy. Residential customers are no better.
	actions · 2023-Dec-13 7:24 pm · (locked)

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