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I am working through the problem above, starting with part (d). By the conservation of energy setting the spring in equilibrium as $y_0$ as the difference in length of the unstretched spring to the length of the spring is equilibrium with the block (found to be $0.1$ in part (c)), we have that $$\frac{1}{2}m v_0^2+mgy_0+\frac{1}{2}k y_0^2 = \frac{1}{2}mV^2$$ do we not? Hence $$\frac{1}{2}(2)(3)^2+(2)(10)(0.1)+\frac{1}{2}(200)(0.1)^2 = \frac{1}{2}(2)V^2$$ so that $$V=2\sqrt{3}\text{m/s}$$ Further, for part (e), using conservation of energy, I figured that $$\frac{1}{2} m V^2 +mgA = \frac{1}{2}k A^2$$ so that $$A= \frac{1+\sqrt{13}}{10}$$ Once I got to part (d) my answers were way different than the ones provided. Ive linked the answers below enter image description here

So they put the energy of the spring on the right side of the equation which doesn't make sense to me as wouldn't there be no potential energy there by definition of equilibrium?

My main question is this:

In the equation for part (e) how on earth are we allowed to simply ignore the work done by gravity? How is this turn horizontal trick allowed?

I appreciate any guidance and willingness to help. I am fully aware that this post is the prime candidate of one that will be voted to close as a " do my homework question". I do not want anyone to do my homework.

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    $\begingroup$ It is very annoying, but there is a theorem that you are expected to prove to yourself. That if you choose to measure "KE + deviations from equilibrium position", the energy expression will only be a constant away from "KE + deviation from unstretched position + gravitational potential energy" and so the physics will be captured correctly conveniently without having to deal with extra terms due to gravity. (And I am posting this answer as a comment because this is so often a duplicate that I don't want to clog up the system by posting an answer.) $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 12 at 3:49
  • $\begingroup$ @naturallyInconsistent Thanks for the response, but I am still very unsure of how gravity is all of a sudden non-existent in their conservation equation. From $x=0=$equilibrium to $x=A=$amplitude on a vertical spring, gravity does $mgA$ of work no? $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 12 at 3:54
  • $\begingroup$ It is not non-existent. It is fully captured by the difference in equilibrium position v.s. unstretched position. So that we can use a mathematically much nicer form than one with complications. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 12 at 4:03
  • $\begingroup$ I would try to determine the oscillation amplitude using the equation you think is correct, and see if your answer is different or the same as the book's. $\endgroup$
    – RC_23
    Commented Apr 12 at 4:21
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    $\begingroup$ Voting to reopen. Clearly not a "do my homework for me" questions since the questioner has done the homework, and wants to understand the concepts behind the correct answer. $\endgroup$
    – gandalf61
    Commented Apr 12 at 9:39

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So step one is don't put number in equations until the end. And, if you do put numbers in: include units. Something like $(2)(3)^2$ is meaningless, and I've done hundreds of spring problems.

Step 2: choose a good coordinate system. The reasonable choices are:

1) $x=0$ is the top of the unloaded spring

2) $x=0$ is the equilibrium position.

I like (2), since the answer to (c) is $x=0$...but there is a reason to chose (1):

It's easy to write the potential energy as a function of $x$ (oh, and one must ask: is $x$ the right name for a vertical displacement? No, it's not. But I'm going to begrudging use that. $z$ is better, but this really is a 1-D problem, so we'll let it slide--actually, I have a reason).

There are two potentials, gravity

$$ V_g(x) = mgx $$

And a time dependent potential, that changes when the mass sticks to the spring, and that is:

$$ V_s(x) = \frac 1 2 k x^2 $$

The time coordinate can be define to that $t=0$ is when the mass hits the spring, or when it reaches equilibrium, or when the whole things starts. I like the penultimate, but will use the last.

So, at $t=0$:

$$ x(0) = 0.45\,{\rm m} \equiv x_0 $$

The total energy is (remember, the spring potential is "off"):

$$ E_0 = T(t=0) + V(t=0) = V_g(x_0) = mgx_0 $$

The time it takes to hit the spring, $t_1$, is a basic formula from:

$$ x_0 = \frac 1 2 g t_1^2 $$

so:

$$ t_1 = \sqrt{\frac{2x_0}{g}}$$

with (energy conservation):

$$ E_1 = T_1 + V_1 = E_0 $$

$$ \frac 1 2 mv^2_1 + 0 = mgx_0 $$

with

$$ v_1 = gt_1 = \sqrt{2gx_0} $$

Next, is calculate the equilibrium position, $x'$, which is the solution to:

$$ \frac{dU(x)}{dx} = 0 $$

$$ mg + kx' = 0 $$

$$ x' = -\frac{mg} k $$

Note that the energy of the compressed spring at equilibrium is:

$$ V_k(x') = \frac 1 2 k \frac{(mg)^2}{k^2} = \frac 1 2 \frac{(mg)^2}{k}$$

While the gravitational potential difference from $x=0$ is

$$ V_g(x') = mgx' = \frac{(mg)^2}{k} = 2V_k(x') $$

That $V_g/V_k = 2$ in equilibrium comes up a lot in physics problem (remember it). If you consider the harmonic oscillator as your bound system and "gravity" to be an external perturbing field, you'll see this in all kinds of systems, such as a polarizable atom in an external uniform electric field.

From here: write the equations of motion:

$$ ma - F = 0$$ $$ m\ddot x - kx - mg = 0 $$

and transform to $y = x-x' = x +\frac{mg} k $:

$$ m\ddot y - k(y-\frac{mg} k) + - mg = 0 $$ $$ m\ddot y - ky+\frac{kmg} k + - mg = 0 $$ $$ m\ddot y - ky = 0 $$

Notice how gravity has completely dropped out of the problem. This is unique (afaik) to the SHO.

So now solve that equation with the correct initial conditions: You know $y(t_1) = +|x'|$ and $\dot y(t_1) = v_1$.

So to reiterate: do not use real numbers until the end. Use physical quantities as variables, with clear and obvious names. Mark significant events with subscripts. At each step, think about "what conserved quantity do I know at that this step?", and "how does it get me to the next step?".

Finally: think about energy and global concerns, over force and local concerns. For instance, I didn't balance the spring/gravity forces to find equilibrium; rather, I only considered the total potential energy.

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  • $\begingroup$ Okay I have done what you said (I usually do exactly what you said and only use symbols rather than numbers) and I have gotten the right answer. I think that my main issue was redefining my coordinate system mid problem. This clearly wont work for potential energies. The equation that got me there $$mg\left(y_0+\frac{mg}{k}+A\right)=\frac{1}{2}k\left(\frac{mg}{k} +A\right)^2$$ Where $y_0$ is initial height above spring, $mg/k$ the distance from unstretched to equilibrium, and $A$ the resulting amplitude. $\endgroup$ Commented Apr 12 at 4:58

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