Does this Sack of Carrying work as simpler replacement for Bag of Holding?

Question

I am looking for an alternative to bag of holding that is simpler and provides the weight reduction benefit without all the extra baggage from creating extradimensional spaces.

Sack of Carrying
Wonderous Item, Uncommon

This item appears like a normal, large sack that weighs 5 pounds. It can hold 12 cubic feet or 360 pounds, without changing its total weight. Creatures in the sack can breathe normally. You can put objects or creatures into the sack or take them out with a normal object interaction.

Are there any balance, mechanics or wording issues this item would have?

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Background:

The bag of holding creates a permanent, extradimensional space and a portal effect to access it, quite the exotic effect for an item that is merely uncommon, too exotic for my tastes. It also has lots of additional clauses about bad stuff that happens if you put it into another extradimensional space (or vice versa), which for me makes it unnecessarily complicated.

While characters mostly use it to lug around equipment and loot, they can also can use it to hide items from divination spells that are limited to the same plane, which is an unrelated effect to providing carrying capacity. I am looking for a simpler item to add to the game.

I have no problems with bag of holding per se. Its a cool item I love like the next guy. I also have no issue with it being used with all its features, when the characters have one. But for tier one play, I feel a simpler item would be a better fit, and am looking to create one. Think of it like I'd like the option of a +1 sword, rather than just having a flametongue.

Answer 1

Where does the stuff go? How big does the bag get?

Without the interdimensional space, putting 12 cubic feet of stuff would result in a bag that is 12 cubic feet in size -- because there is nowhere for the things to go. The item as written decreases the weight, but not the size of the item. So, the party looks like they stole Santa's bag.

Let's think about this a bit more. If the bag doesn't shrink items, then it is decreasing mass but not volume, decreasing the density of the items. Thus the bag becomes less dense the more volume you give it, and so if it becomes less dense than water, it can be abused as a flotation device, and if it becomes less dense than air, it becomes a balloon.

If you update it to shrink the items, you run into some other problems I'll address later.

How long does it take to get something out?

Without the clauses about pulling out the right object, you won't be able to pull the right object out quickly, so you'd have to dump out the entire 12 cubic feet of troll parts to find the 3 silver pieces rattling around the bottom of the bag.

What happens if the bag is ripped?

Is the item able to be ripped? Magic items, by default, are indestructible by normal means, and without a clause about the bag is open to weird abuse, especially if things don't shrink on their way into the bag. Because you can push the indestructible 12 cubic foot bag that only weighs 5 pounds against a door, or hide behind it.

If it can be ripped. Do the items that leave the bag through the rip remain less dense? And if you add shrinking to address the first question, do they also remain small if they fall through the rip? Or do they suddenly regain their weight and size?

Frame of Reference Challenge

The issues you have with the Bag of Holding can be solved in other ways. Such as not giving it out in tier one play (or at all) or simply forbidding its misuse and abuse. Your item is poorly thought out patch to a problem that isn't about the item, it is about your players -- or at least how you think your players will use the bag.

[C]lauses about bad stuff that happens if you put it into another extradimensional space

If that is a problem at your table don't give them any other extradimensional items if you give them a bag of holding. Spells that create extradimensional effects are higher level spells.

they can also can use it to hide items from divination spells that are limited to the same plane

Then BBEG uses different divination spells, or the BBEG knows who took the items and scry/trace/track the players instead of the item. That isn't about railroading either, it is thinking about what the BBEG would respond to the party's use of the bag to hide the item they want.

The argument that putting the stuff into an extradimensional space is "less complex" than instantly changing the mass (and potentially size) of the item in this plane is weird to me. The extradimensional bag of holding just makes the item go somewhere else, where your bag changes the mass (and potentially volume) of the items inside which if you play with real-world physics can create even more and unexpected abuse than the play-tested and tried and true item from the DMG. But at the end of the day, it is your table, and if you feel a need for the item go for it.

Answer 2

Just tell your players to stop it.

You're making a solution that isn't needed to fix your problem.

Your problem (X) is that players are using mechanics to do things that you don't want them to do. You've come up with a new magic item (Y) as a solution and are asking about that. I'm telling you that isn't solving your problem, and suggesting how you can solve your actual problem.

If the problem is players having the bag do more than it really intends, then the solution is asking the players not to do those things. We're clever people and we'll figure out things no one has thought of. If that thing is disrupting the game, you simply ask for that thing to stop.

You've stated that there is a small problem in the mis-use of additional clauses - so just ask them not to do that. Don't create a new item that is specifically created for them not to do that - just talk to your players.

We're all playing a game together and if someone is doing something that is ruining the fun for others, then it's best to talk about it and find a solution there rather than stick a band-aid on the issue and hope it doesn't come up somewhere else.

If you really want the bag, then talk to the players

If the bag is the solution, then talk with your players about what their needs are for the bag and what you're actually willing to give them. You'll find a balance between the two only by communicating with the whole table. You'll also likely uncover more things about what everyone would like clarified about mechanics at your actual table.

Answer 3

I want a clear way to determine what fits into the bag and what doesn't.

You've touched on some of the problems with the Bag of Holding, but you have missed my single greatest pet peeve about the item: I have no consistent method of ruling what fits through the mouth of the bag and what doesn't. Does it stretch to accommodate oddly proportioned objects or creatures that meet the weight and volume requirements? I'm just tired of not having a good answer to "will X fit through the mouth of the bag?" I don't really have a good idea for a solution here, if I did I would have implemented it already. "Magically accommodates anything that meets the weight/volume limit" seems like the easiest thing to work with.

I don't know the volume of a horse, or anything that isn't an elementary solid.

Related to the last point, I don't know the volume of stuff. Sure, I can convert gallons to cubic feet and tell you how much water the bag will hold. But what's the volume of a 359 pound pony? I don't know, and I shouldn't have to know to tell you what a magic item can do. I would do away with the interior volume limit and just use weight, because I am much better at knowing the weights of things.

Answer 4

Your wording will be confusing to anyone used to D&D's ubiquitous 'bag of holding' and similar items.

Instead something like this will make it clearer to your players what you are aiming for.

Sack of Lightness

Wondrous Item, Uncommon

This item appears as a normal, large sack with a weight of 5 pounds. It can hold an amount of goods typical for a large sack, 12 cubic feet or so. Items placed entirely inside the sack no longer have weight, allowing the wielder to carry the sack without adding the weight of the items inside it to their carrying capacity. Although the weight is not added, the sack if filled with its full allowance of space is still quite large, so an adventurer carrying multiple of these sacks may look quite comical, or run into problems squeezing through tight spaces.

Although used for a similar purpose to a bag of holding, the sack of lightness does not make use of extradimensional spaces and retrieving or adding an item to the sack functions as it would with any nonmagical sack of non-lightness.

Wording is a bit colloquial/chatty there, but it should provide a guide. Provided you make it clear that this isn't a sack of holding or carrying or whatever, it's just a sack that makes items inside not weigh anything in the title and spell it out a few times in the text, your players should get the message. If you don't, they might just assume based on similarity of purpose to another, extremely well known item.

Answer 5

It feels reasonably balanced, but feel free to add the fixes suggested by Thomas Markov. Stricter definitions removes the necessity for arbitrary judgements.

However, J. A. Streich makes a valid comment - where does things go, without a portal of some sort? As far as I understand your description, you're planning on not making things "go" anywhere, per se, just lose all mass and volume while inside the bag. Since that seems a bit weird in the D&D magic paradigm, I propose a fix:

Sack of Reduction

Wondrous Item, Uncommon

This item appears like a normal, large sack that weighs 5 pounds. It can hold up to 360 pounds, pre-reduction. Anything placed into the sack will, once fully inside, be subject to a Reduce effect, decreasing its size by one category, until removed from the sack or the sack is destroyed. Creatures in the sack can breathe normally. Putting held objects or physically compliant creatures into the sack or taking them out requires an Action. The mouth of the sack is malleable with a maximum circumference of 3 feet, and the depth of the bag is 4 feet.

Now we're using the existing magical ideas of D&D, though the effects are significantly less than the Bag of Holding - the sack will grow in size and weight as you fill it, though not commensurate to what you stuff inside. I specified the mouth, and added the limitation that things must fit wholly inside before being Reduced.