All Questions
56
questions
-1
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0
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I need an explanation for the time derivative omissions when solving for the Lagrangian of a system [closed]
So I have been self-studying Landau and Lifshitz’s Mechanics for a little bit now, and I have been working through the problems, but Problem 3 is giving me some trouble. I solved the Lagrangian ...
- 21
7
votes
3
answers
1k
views
In equation (3) from lecture 7 in Leonard Susskind’s ‘Classical Mechanics’, should the derivatives be partial?
Here are the equations. ($V$ represents a potential function and $p$ represents momentum.)
$$V(q_1,q_2) = V(aq_1 - bq_2)$$
$$\dot{p}_1 = -aV'(aq_1 - bq_2)$$
$$\dot{p}_2 = +bV'(aq_1 - bq_2)$$
Should ...
0
votes
1
answer
76
views
In Lagrangian mechanics, do we need to filter out impossible solutions after solving?
The principle behind Lagrangian mechanics is that the true path is one that makes the action stationary. Of course, there are many absurd paths that are not physically realizable as paths. For ...
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0
votes
1
answer
76
views
Derivation of lagrange equation in classical mechanics
I'm currently working on classical mechanics and I am stuck in a part of the derivation of the lagrange equation with generalized coordinates. I just cant figure it out and don't know if it's just ...
- 41
4
votes
4
answers
260
views
Variation of a function
I'm studying calculus of variations and Lagrangian mechanics and i don't understand something about the variational operator
Let's say for example that i got a Lagrangian $L [x(t), \dot{x}(t), t] $ ...
- 309
1
vote
1
answer
54
views
Sufficient condition for conservation of conjugate momentum
Is the following statement true?
If $\frac{\partial \dot{q}}{\partial q}=0$, then the conjugate momentum $p_q$ is conserved.
We know that conjugate momentum of $q$ is conserved if $\frac{\partial L}{\...
- 41
2
votes
6
answers
239
views
Lagrangian - How can we differentiate with respect to time if $v$ not a function of time?
In the Lagrangian itself, we know that $v$ and $q$ don't depend on $t$ (i.e - they are not functions of $t$ - i.e., $L(q,v,t)$ is a state function.)
Imagine $L = \frac{1}{2}mv^2 - mgq$
Euler-Lagrange ...
- 525
1
vote
2
answers
119
views
Lagrangian total time derivative - continues second-order differential
In the lagrangian, adding total time derivative doesn't change equation of motion.
$$L' = L + \frac{d}{dt}f(q,t).$$
After playing with it, I realize that this is only true if the $f(q,t)$ function has ...
- 525
1
vote
1
answer
48
views
Lagrangian for 2 inertial frames where only Speed is different by small amount
In Landau & Liftshitz’s book p.5, they go ahead and writes down lagrangians for 2 different inertial frames. They say that Lagrangian is a function of $v^2$.
So in one frame, we got $L(v^2)$.
In ...
- 525
1
vote
1
answer
114
views
Is the order of ordinary derivatives interchangeable in classical mechanics?
I am having trouble with a term that arises in a physics equation (deriving the Lagrange equation for one particle in one generalized coordinate, $q$, dimension from one Cartesian direction, $x$).
My ...
- 111
0
votes
0
answers
71
views
Deriving Euler-Lagrange equation [duplicate]
I have derive the Euler-Lagrange equation which is equation (2) for a condition in which generalised velocity is independent on the generalised coordinate but when generalised velocity is dependent on ...
2
votes
1
answer
615
views
Proof that the Euler-Lagrange equations hold in any set of coordinates if they hold in one
This is a question about a specific proof presented in the book Introduction to Classical Mechanics by David Morin. I have highlighted the relevant portion in the picture below.
In the remark, he ...
anon
0
votes
1
answer
88
views
Step in derivation of Lagrangian mechanics
There is a step in expressing the momentum in terms of general coordinates that confuses me (Link)
\begin{equation}
\left(\sum_{i}^{n} m_{i} \ddot{\mathbf{r}}_{i} \cdot \frac{\partial \mathbf{r}_{i}}{\...
- 335
1
vote
1
answer
56
views
Energy change under point transformation
How do the energy and generalized momenta change under the following
coordinate
transformation $$q= f(Q,t).$$
The new momenta: $$P = \partial L / \partial \dot Q = \partial L / \partial \dot q\times ...
- 980
3
votes
2
answers
148
views
How to prove that $ \delta \frac{dq_i}{dt} = \frac{d \delta q_i}{dt} $? [duplicate]
During the proof of least action principle my prof used the equation $ \delta \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{d \delta x}{dt} $. We were not proved this equality. I was curious to know why this is true so I ...
1
vote
2
answers
2k
views
Derivation of Lagrange's equation form d'Alembert's Principle
Im studying Mechanics form Goldstein. I cross this equation in "Derivation of Lagranges equation from d'Alembert's Principle",section 1.4. I have two questions from this derivation.
The ...
user310684
1
vote
0
answers
20
views
Do partial derivation respect to velocity and total derivation respect to time commute? [duplicate]
Imagine we have a function of position $x^i$ and velocity $v^i$ $f(x,v)$. Position and velocity are both functions of time $t$. If the function doesn't depend explicitely on time, then we have the ...
- 4,827
2
votes
2
answers
161
views
Conjugate momentum notation
I was reading Peter Mann's Lagrangian & Hamiltonian Dynamics, and I found this equation (page 115):
$$p_i := \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}^i}$$
where L is the Lagrangian. I understand this is ...
- 41
1
vote
2
answers
398
views
Total time derivatives and partial coordinate derivatives in classical mechanics
This may be more of a math question, but I am trying to prove that for a function $f(q,\dot{q},t)$
$$\frac{d}{dt}\frac{∂f}{∂\dot{q}}=\frac{∂}{∂\dot{q}}\frac{df}{dt}−\frac{∂f}{∂q}.\tag{1}$$
As part of ...
1
vote
3
answers
141
views
Proof of Lagrangian equations [closed]
Context: Trying to proof Lagrangian equations without an explicit usage of the concept of virtual displacement.
(disclaimer for happy close-vote triggers: I'm not related to any academic institution ...
- 1,128
1
vote
1
answer
123
views
Reasoning behind $\delta \dot q = \frac{d}{dt} \delta q$ in deriving E-L equations [duplicate]
Consider a Lagrangian $L(q, \dot{q}, t)$ for a single particle. The variation of the Lagrangian is given by:
$$\delta L= \frac{\partial L}{\partial q}\delta q + \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q}\...
1
vote
3
answers
306
views
In Euler-Lagrange equations, why we take ${\partial T}/{\partial {x}} $ as zero (when no terms of $x$ is present)?
Basically, why we treat them as independent quantities. I know what a partial derivative is, It means if a function depends on multiple variables, the partial derivative with respect to a particular ...
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4
votes
1
answer
2k
views
How do total time derivatives of partial derivatives of functions work?
Say im trying to prove $\frac{\partial \dot{T}}{\partial \dot{q}^i} - 2\frac{\partial {T}}{\partial {q^i}} = - \frac{\partial {V}}{\partial {q^i}}$ from the Lagrangian equation: $L = T - V$, and the ...
- 75
0
votes
3
answers
195
views
Having trouble taking derivative of a cross product when finding Lagrangian to find force equation for rotating non-inertial frame
I've been working on a problem for my classical mechanics 2 course and I am stuck on a little math problem. Basically, I am trying to prove this equation of motion with a Lagrangian:
$$m\ddot{r} = F + ...
- 17
2
votes
1
answer
225
views
Is Goldstein's matrix formalism to Hamiltonian mechanics necessary? [closed]
I am trying to see whether the matrix formalism of the Hamiltonian formalism (used in Goldstein's textbook) is truly necessary to solve problem in this framework.
It appears so based on the problem I'...
- 1,031
0
votes
1
answer
83
views
The use of $x_\varepsilon (t) = x(t) + \varepsilon (t)$ and $x_\varepsilon (t) = x(t) + \varepsilon \eta (t)$ in proving Hamilton's principle
The following Wikipedia page uses $x_\varepsilon (t) = x(t) + \varepsilon (t)$ in the proof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton%27s_principle#Mathematical_formulation
But in my mechanics book (by ...
- 485
2
votes
2
answers
466
views
Derivative of Lagrangian with respect to velocity
My question revolves around this lecture notes on page $109$ equation $(5.1.10)$.
Let's stick to $\mathbb{R}^3$ and consider a particle in $3$-space with position vector $\mathbf{x} = (x, y, z)$. ...
- 121
2
votes
1
answer
100
views
Confusion regarding the time derivative term in Lagrange's equation
I am solving a pendulum attached to a cart problem. Without going into unnecessary details, the generalised coordinates are chosen to be $x$ and $\theta$. The kinetic energy of the system contains a ...
- 192
0
votes
0
answers
45
views
About Lagrange equation [duplicate]
$$\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \left ( \frac {\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}_j} \right ) = \frac {\partial L}{\partial q_j}.$$
I don't understand partial derivative by "function" (e.g. $q_j$).
$q$ ...
- 37
0
votes
3
answers
2k
views
Time derivative of the Lagrangian
I have the time derivative of the lagrangian:
$$\frac{\mathrm d \mathcal L}{\mathrm d t}=\sum_i\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal L}{\partial q_i}\frac{\mathrm d q_i}{\mathrm d t}+\frac{\partial \mathcal ...
- 21
0
votes
0
answers
55
views
Math question about point transformations
I am trying to prove the classic problem to showcase Lagrangian's scalar invariant property.
Namely, that if you have $x_i = \{ x_1, ...., x_n; t \}$ , you can then represent $L(x_1,....,\dot{x_1},.....
0
votes
2
answers
285
views
Taylor expansion in derivation of Noether-theorem
In my classical mechanics lecture we derived the Noether-theorem for a coordinate transformation given by:
$$ q_i(t) \rightarrow q^{'}_i(t)=q_i(t) + \delta q_i(t) = q_i(t) + \lambda I_i(q,\dot q,t).$$...
- 13
0
votes
3
answers
136
views
Mathematical identity related to d'Alembert's Principle
In Hand & Finch's book on Analytical Mechanics, I came across this mathematical identity Eq. 1.19 in Chapter 1, page 5, which is related to the description of d'Alembert's principle:
$$\dot{\vec{...
- 113
2
votes
1
answer
3k
views
Lagrange equations in a conservative system, understanding $\nabla_i$
For a system of multiple particles with conservative forces: $\mathbf{F}_i = - \nabla_i V$, with $V \equiv V(\mathbf{r}_1,\dots,\mathbf{r}_N)$ the potential in function of the position of the $N$ ...
- 265
0
votes
1
answer
656
views
Derivative of Lagrangian with respect to a vector
Sometimes to find an equation of motion, the Lagrangian is derivated with respect to the (position) vector. How can this be possible?
1
vote
1
answer
341
views
How come $\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial {r_i}}{\partial {q_j}}\right) = \frac{\partial {\dot r_i}}{\partial {q_j}}$ in Lagrangian mechanics? [duplicate]
It is written in the Goldstein's Classical Mechanics text that
$$\frac{\mathrm d}{\mathrm dt}\left(\frac{\partial {r_i}}{\partial {q_j}}\right) = \frac{\partial {\dot r_i}}{\partial {q_j}}=\sum_k \...
- 595
57
votes
7
answers
9k
views
Why isn't the Euler-Lagrange equation trivial?
The Euler-Lagrange equation gives the equations of motion of a system with Lagrangian $L$. Let $q^\alpha$ represent the generalized coordinates of a configuration manifold, $t$ represent time. The ...
- 1,826
2
votes
4
answers
1k
views
The definition of the hamiltonian in lagrangian mechanics
So going through the "Analytical Mechanics by Hand and Finch". In section 1.10 of the book, the Hamiltonian $H$ is defined as: $$H = \sum_k{\dot{q_k}\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q_k}} -L}.\tag{1.65}...
user63248
0
votes
2
answers
2k
views
Derivation of generalized velocities in Lagrangian mechanics
So I know that: $$r_i = r_i(q_1, q_2,q_3,...., q_n, t)$$
Where $r_i$ represent the position of the $i$th part of a dynamical system and the $q_n$ represent the dynamical variables of the system ($n$ =...
user63248
1
vote
2
answers
260
views
Order of derivatives in Euler-Lagrange equations
The Euler-Lagrange equations are
$$\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}_i} = \frac{\partial L}{\partial q_i}.\tag{1}$$
Is it equivalent to switch the derivatives on the ...
- 319
1
vote
2
answers
160
views
Why $\sum\limits_{i} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q_i}} \dot{q_i} = \sum\limits_{i} \frac{\partial T}{\partial \dot{q_i}} \dot{q_i} = 2T$? [closed]
From Landau and Lifschitz's "Mechanics"; section 6.
I understand up to this point
$$E \equiv \sum\limits_{i} \dot{q_i}\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q_i}} - L $$
Then the author states:
Using ...
- 33
0
votes
2
answers
2k
views
Velocity in generalized coordinates
Consider the expression of velocity in generalized coordinates, $\mathbf v = \frac {d \mathbf x}{dt}$, where $\mathbf x = \mathbf x (\mathbf q(t), t)$.
We end up with a total derivative, i.e $$\...
- 627
2
votes
2
answers
188
views
Take derivative to a cross product of two vectors with respect to the position vector [closed]
I'm doing classical mechanics about Lagrange formulation and confused about something about vector differentiation.The Lagrangian is given:
$$\mathcal{L}=\frac{m}{2}(\dot{\vec{R}}+\vec{\Omega} \times \...
- 103
1
vote
0
answers
258
views
Partial derivative of $v$ w.r.t. $x$ in Lagrangian dynamics [duplicate]
In Lagrangian dynamics, when using the Lagrangian thus:
$$
\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial \mathcal{L} }{\partial \dot{q_j}})-
\frac{\partial \mathcal{L} }{\partial q_j} = 0
$$
often we get terms such ...
- 11
1
vote
3
answers
120
views
Lagrange classical relation
I have been studying theoretical mechanics and just now I came cross a formula
called "Lagrange classical relation", that is, if we let $q_1$, $q_2$,$\cdot $$ \cdot $$\cdot $, $q _ m$, $t$ be the $...
- 115
0
votes
1
answer
452
views
Least action principle : is $ \delta \frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{d \delta x}{dt} $ always true?
(Just some recalls)
We have an action on which we want to apply Least action principle.
$$ S=\int_{t_i}^{t_f} L(q,\dot{q},t)dt$$
We assume that $t \mapsto q(t)$ is the function that will extremise ...
- 1,450
2
votes
2
answers
1k
views
When can one omit a total time derivative in the Lagrangian formulation?
I am studying Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics and i am using Landau & Lifshitz and Goldstein books. Both of them state that a modified lagrangian $$L'=L+\frac{df}{dt}$$ gives the same ...
- 45
1
vote
1
answer
219
views
Derivation Of Euler-Lagrange Equation [closed]
I want the proof of this relation in details,
$$
\frac{\rm d}{{\rm d}t}\left(\frac{\partial\vec{r}_v}{\partial q_\alpha}\right)=\frac{\partial\vec{\dot{r}_v}}{\partial q_\alpha}
$$
- 27
1
vote
1
answer
953
views
Trouble understanding Landau & Lifshitz writing about Lagrangians and Galilean Relativity [duplicate]
We have two inertial coordinate systems, $K'$ and $K$. $K$ is moving with infinitesimal velocity ${\epsilon}$ relative to $K'$. Using Galilean relativity we can transform this into $v'=v+{\epsilon}$. ...
- 387
1
vote
1
answer
206
views
Lagrangian formalism (demonstration)
My question is about the multiplicity of the Lagrangian to a Physics system.
I pretend to demonstrate the following proposition:
For a system with $n$ degrees of freedom, written by the Lagrangian ...
- 1,082