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We can change $s^2 = \frac{t^2 - 1}{2t}$ to $$2ts^2 = t^2 - 1$$ $$16t^2s^2 = 8t^3 - 8t$$ and making the change of variables $(x, y) = (2t, 4ts)$, we get the elliptic curve $y^2 = x^3 - 4x$

Can we do something similar with $s^2 = \frac{t^2 + 2t -1 }{t^2 - 2t - 1}$?

Any insight is appreciated.

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  • $\begingroup$ Should be possible. That curve is birational to $$u^2=(t^2+2t-1)(t^2-2t-1).$$ Such an hyperelliptic curve has genus one, so it is actually elliptic (if it has a rational point). Alas, I don't remember the convertion procedure. I think we have had examples on the site. Do search! $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 3:25
  • $\begingroup$ The first relevant hit $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 3:33
  • $\begingroup$ Caveats listed here. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 3:39
  • $\begingroup$ BTW I am inclined to add tags function-fields, algebraic-geometry. Basically because those might attract people who know this better than I do. Can you describe your background a bit more? Otherwise the answers may not help you much :-) $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 3:43
  • $\begingroup$ May be this old answer describes the conversion into Weierstrass form in a way that can be followed here as well? $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 5:41

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It is not quite clear to me what you need/want. I am guessing that you seek to find an elliptic curve that shares the same function field. But, you did not disclose the field of constants either. Anyway, I followed the procedure in this answer by David E. Speyer as an exercise for myself, so I might as well share.

The transformation is done in several steps. The end result is an elliptic curve defined over $\Bbb{Q}$ with the property that the function field $\Bbb{Q}(s,t), s^2=(t^2+2t-1)/(t^2-2t-1)$ is equal to $\Bbb{Q}(x,y), y^2=x^3-x$.

Like John Omielan I begin by replacing $s$ with $u=s(t^2-2t-1)$ and arrive at the polynomial equation $$ u^2=(t^2-2t-1)(t^2+2t-1)=t^4-6t^2+1.\tag{1} $$ It is known that the polynomial equation $y^2=f(x)$, $f$ squarefree, defines a curve of genus $g=(m-2)/2$ when $m=\deg f$ is even, but $g=(m-1)/2$ when $m$ is odd. So here we can already see that your equation defines a genus one curve. It obviously has rational points, so it will be an elliptic curve.

The equation in the linked thread is very similar (biquadratic!) so all I needed to do was to modify the constants a bit. So I shamelessly replace $u$ and $t$ with $v$ and $w$ defined by the equations $$u=t^2-3+v,\qquad t=w/v. $$ Observe that $v=(u-t^2+3)$, $w=t(u-t^2+3)$, so this change of variables is birational. Plugging these into $(1)$ and clearing the numerators yields the equation $$ 8 v - 6 v^2 + v^3 + 2 w^2=0,\tag{2} $$ from which we already see that it, indeed, defines an elliptic curve.

It may be worth our while to find the minimal Weierstrass model. There isn't much to this. Looking at $(2)$ we see that $w=2y$, $v=-2x+A$ is strongly suggested. The choice $A=2$ gets rid of the quadratic term, so I plug in $w=2y$, $v=-2x+2$ into $(2)$, and divide the end result by eight: $$ y^2=x^3-x.\tag{3} $$

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    $\begingroup$ This is incomplete. I want to work out the connection between this curve and the one appearing in John Omielan's answer in closer detail. May be later :-( $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 7:36
  • $\begingroup$ It may be incomplete, but I nonetheless still consider it to be a great answer. Also, it's likely to be closer to what the OP wants than what my answer provides. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 14:53
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    $\begingroup$ Sorry for not being clear. I was looking for an isogeny, which is what @JohnOmielan gave me. I think I can also use the minimal weierstrauss Equation though. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 16:44
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We can do something similar to what you did with your example. Cross-multiplying, and then making various adjustments, gives that

$$\begin{equation}\begin{aligned} s^2(t^2 - 2t - 1) & = t^2 + 2t - 1 \\ s^2(t^2 - 2t - 1)^{2}t^2 & = ((t^2 - 1) + 2t)((t^2 - 1) - 2t)t^2 \\ (s(t^3 - 2t^2 - t))^2 & = ((t^2 - 1)^2 - 4t^2)t^2 \\ & = ((t^4 - 2t^2 + 1) - 4t^2)t^2 \\ & = t^6 - 6t^4 + t^2 \\ & = (t^6 - 6t^4 + 12t^2 - 8) - 12t^2 + 8 + t^2 \\ & = (t^2 - 2)^3 - 11t^2 + 8 \\ & = (t^2 - 2)^3 - 11(t^2 - 2) - 22 + 8 \\ & = (t^2 - 2)^3 - 11(t^2 - 2) - 14 \end{aligned}\end{equation}$$

Thus, using the change of variables $(x, y) = (t^2 - 2, s(t^3 - 2t^2 - t))$, we then have a similar elliptic curve to your example, in particular we get

$$y^2 = x^3 - 11x - 14$$

Note that, as explained in Wikipedia's Elliptic curve article, the general form of $y^2 = x^3 + ax + b$ requires the curve to be non-singular (i.e., square-free in $x$), which applies here since

$$4a^3 + 27b^2 = 4(-11)^3 + 27(-14)^2 = -32 \neq 0$$

In particular, the cubic's roots are $-2$ and $1 \pm 2\sqrt{2}$.

Also, as indicated in Jyrki Lahtonen's comment, note we can generally reverse the mapping, i.e., write $(s, t)$ in terms of $(x, y)$. In particular, there's

$$x = t^2 - 2 \;\;\to\;\; t = \pm\sqrt{x + 2}$$

If $t^3 - 2t^2 - t = 0$, then $y = 0$ and $s$ is indeterminate, else we get

$$s = \frac{y}{t^3 - 2t^2 - t} = \frac{y}{\pm(\sqrt{x + 2})^3 - 2(x + 2) \mp\sqrt{x + 2}}$$

However, as stated in Jyrki Lahtonen's other comment, involving square roots means the mapping is not rational. Thus, what I've described above is an isogeny to the elliptic curve $y^2 = x^2 - 11x - 14$ rather than being an isomorphism.

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    $\begingroup$ The calculation is fine (+1), but I am not sure whether this mapping is birational? In other words, can you write $(s,t)$ in terms of $(x,y)$ also? True, the OP did not make it clear what they want :-) $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 3:54
  • $\begingroup$ @JyrkiLahtonen Thanks for your feedback. I added showing the mapping is birational, i.e., how to write $(s, t)$ in terms of $(x, y)$. In addition, I confirmed the elliptic curve is not singular. Nonetheless, I don't know very much about this area of mathematics, so I would appreciate you letting me know about anything else is missing, or otherwise not having been done appropriately. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 4:08
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    $\begingroup$ The square roots are a problem for the mapping to be rational. I suspect that you have described an isogeny to the elliptic curve $y^2=x^3-11x-14$ rather than an isomorphism. But I'm not an expert either :-) $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 5:38
  • $\begingroup$ @JyrkiLahtonen Once again, thanks for your additional feedback. You may not be an expert, but it seems you know more than me, so I've updated my answer based on what you wrote. Nonetheless, I hope the OP clarifies anything else they are looking for, as I originally wrote my solution to provide an answer to just what they specifically asked for, i.e., how to convert $s^2=\frac{t^2+2t-1}{t^2-2t-1}$ to an elliptic curve form. I don't mind extending my answer as you've suggested, but I would ideally prefer to only do it, & only to the extent, based on what's needed for the OP's question intent. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 5:57
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    $\begingroup$ Understood. The OP's goal is not very clear, and I don't know what would be best $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 6 at 6:10
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Consider the curve $$y^2 = \frac{(x-\alpha)(x-\beta)}{(x-\gamma)(x-\delta)}$$

Write $$y =\frac{x-\delta}{x-\gamma}\cdot y_1$$ so

$$y_1^2 =\frac{(x-\alpha)(x-\beta)(x-\gamma)}{(x-\delta)^3}= \frac{P_3((x-\delta))}{(x-\delta)^3}=Q_3(\frac{1}{x-\delta})$$

($P_3$ is a cubic polynomial, $Q_3$ its reverse).

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