Struggling w/ Jesus and Jewish law

Question

Struggling with this question regarding Jesus as a messiah given Jewish prophecy. With regards to formatting of this post, I recently had a stroke and so have to use speech to text; I mean no disrespect. I should also add that I'm asking a sincere question not trying to be inflammatory and definitely not trying to be disrespectful of anyone's beliefs.

I struggle with accepting Jesus as the messiah given Jewish prophecy/law. So for example:

Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant, One who is led as a lamb to the slaughter and who takes our sorrows, infirmities, and punishment on Himself.

In this particular case for example no one can fulfill my obligations under Jewish law; facetious as it may sound no one can honor the commandments on my behalf or eat kosher on my behalf these are my obligations so I do not understand the Christian belief that through Jesus I am saved. He cannot my sins and my responsibilities for atonement onto himself per Jewish law.

Second, the Talmud as well as historical documents recognize two messiahs: one messiah being the son of Joseph and two Davidic messiahs. From my reading of the historic documents Jesus clearly meets the criteria of the messiah son of Joseph while does not necessarily meet by Jewish standards the criteria of the Davidic messiah. Why can we not accept Jesus as the messiah ben joseph?

Third, I don't understand how the current Christian practice doesn't violate the Jewish prohibition against idolatry or the 1st commandment.

Fourth, is it not sufficient for me to consider Jesus a rabbi?

Thank you in advance for your help and insight.

Answer 1

From reading your question I see two main ideas that possibly you have not considered. The first is that of the covenants God made with man in the Old Testament prior to Moses, and how the Mosaic covenant fits into those earlier covenants. An understanding of these covenants will make us see that the Mosaic covenant was shadowy and temporary, never meant to be permanent. Much less permanent or even valid are the mere traditions of those people who tried to follow them. The second idea is the recognition of how important the ceremonial pictures of atonement, deeply signified in the Mosaic covenant itself, will help frame the understanding of the prophecies to be according to Moses and not those according to mere traditions of men.

The covenant of works

When God made Adam and Eve he created a covenant between them whereby their own works would determine if they were righteous or not based on eating from the Tree of Life or the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We call this original covenant that God made with man, the covenant of works. When you say ‘no one can fulfill my obligations under Jewish law’ you are assuming a relationship with God that is in this covenant, that of your works. You are correct, under that covenant, nobody can fulfill your obligations.

The problem with that covenant is that it was broken resulting in the death of humanity. This death included subjecting those born of Adam to a sinful nature. So we see what almost seems comparably innocent, just eating an apple, yet results in Cain murdering Abel just from the next generation of children and culminates in the nearly entire destruction of mankind, infants, and all under Noah. This key takeaway is what David realized:

Psalm 14:2-3 ESV

² The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. ³ They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.

So we have a problem with the covenant of works, nobody can even remotely meet its requirements. No not even one. The key to note about this first agreement between God and man, is that it is general and permanent. That means it is not just for one race, the Jews but for all mankind and can never be made void, or annulled. This leads us to the second covenant.

The covenant of promise

The second covenant was also made to Adam after the miserable and unrecoverable death had fallen upon him.

Genesis 3:15

I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

This is a promise that a seed from Adam and Eve's offspring would destroy the destruction of death that Satan coordinated into humanity through the breaking of the first covenant. This covenant again was not to the Jews only but to all mankind. This covenant was further clarified in Abraham who believed and was counted righteous apart from obeying the law of works (or conscience).

Genesis 15:5-6

⁵ And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” ⁶ And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness

So we see Abraham entered into the second covenant and was considered righteous by faith in the promised seed, rather than by trying to obey the first covenant to obtain righteousness. Around 400 years later we have a unique covenant made between just one race and God.

The Mosaic Covenant

The covenant with Moses was not something that could alter the covenant of works or the covenant of promise to all mankind, which are permanent and general covenants, but God purposed until such time that the seed (Christ) be visibly manifest in the flesh to prescribe with one race, of whom that seed could be preserved in the land of Canaan, a form of worship that would remind them of both these covenants by external practices and written laws.

First and foremost this means a reminder of the covenant of works:

Deuteronomy 27:26

‘Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

However, the ceremonial requirements of the Law, something a Jew must also follow if they are to follow Moses, regardless of traditions, require the shedding of blood for forgiveness for all those sins committed under the covenant of works. This means the ceremonial parts of the legislation pointed away from itself, back to the original promise, as the only means of salvation.

It is highly interesting to note that in these ceremonies the Ark of the Covenant was the most holy article of furniture in the most holy part of the temple. The first two tablets were quickly broken after being made because the Jews could not follow God’s commandments, so a new pair was made and put inside this Ark to protect them. This Ark in turn was furnished with a gold covering called the mercy seat and once a year the high priest after burning incense would sprinkle blood upon this mercy seat to atone for the sins of the people, (to satisfy the laws carved on those new tablets protected inside the Ark) including those sins of the high priest and even those committed that people were not aware of.

This answers your main question. ‘No one can fulfill my obligations under Jewish law’ Yes someone can, in fact, someone needs to shed blood, otherwise you are unclean and cannot continue the temporary form of worship God prescribed for the Jews. The only problem with this shadowy prophetic imagery of the seed, is that obviously the blood of animals can’t really forgive sins but a human must pay for the sins of a human and this human must be perfectly holy, of which no human is as David declares.

So we enter into prophecy in this context. All prophecy is ultimately about Christ coming to pay for our sins, otherwise humanity has no hope, and the promise to Adan was a lie.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 ESV

³¹ Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, ³² not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

New Covenant (Original Promise ratified by blood)

Now if God makes a New Covenant that means the Old one was not suitable to be permanent and was only temporary and shadowing until the Seed that it based all its ceremonies around was exhibited in the flesh, in order to make atonement through his shed blood for the sins left unpunished, that the blood sprinkled onto the Mercy seat only postponed the judgment of, being that such blood could never make atonement.

Evidently, this promise was realized when a virgin conceived and God took on human flesh to be that lamb of God to take away the sins of the world, not just the sins of Israel. God finally manifested the realization of his promise to Adam and to Abraham. Thus anyone who believes in the man Jesus the Messiah are children of Abraham, children of those who have faith in the promised seed.

So far I have only referred to Old Testament scripture, to answer your question, but now let me summarize it with a New Testament. You can see a lot of these ideas all compacted into just a few verses: (please note that according to Paul the Jew (who was an expert in the Law, the Law reflecting the covenant of works speaks death and condemnation but the promise exhibited in the gospel speaks life and the fulfillment of all prophecy to eternal life).

2 Corinthians 3:7-18 ESV

⁷ Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, ⁸ will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? ⁹ For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. ¹⁰ Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. ¹¹ For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

¹² Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, ¹³ not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. ¹⁴ But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. ¹⁵ Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. ¹⁶ But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. ¹⁷ Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. ¹⁸ And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

We are here invited to remove the veil that the Devil puts over our eyes to prevent us from receiving the Promise made to Abraham, to receive the gift of eternal life offered to us in the gospel of Christ, requiring faith alone to obtain it. A precious pearl worth selling all that we have, if only we can possess this!

Answer 2

OP:Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant, One who is led as a lamb to the slaughter and who takes our sorrows, infirmities, and punishment on Himself.

OP: In this particular case for example no one can fulfill my obligations under Jewish law; facetious as it may sound no one can honor the commandments on my behalf or eat kosher on my behalf these are my obligations so I do not understand the Christian belief that through Jesus I am saved. He cannot my sins and my responsibilities for atonement onto himself per Jewish law.

The suffering servant prophecies have to do with substitutionary sacrifice as shown in the Mosaic Covenant. Consider Leviticus 23. Consider the Red Heifer of Numbers 19. Consider the scapegoat example. These things didn't keep the Jewish Law,but acted as valid substitutes. It is the same with the Suffering Servant motif.

OP: Second, the Talmud as well as historical documents recognize two messiahs: one messiah being the son of Joseph and two Davidic messiahs. From my reading of the historic documents Jesus clearly meets the criteria of the messiah son of Joseph while does not necessarily meet by Jewish standards the criteria of the Davidic messiah. Why can we not accept Jesus as the messiah ben joseph?

Two unique Messiahs? Unfortunately, you've asserted this without showing support of your idea.

Third, I don't understand how the current Christian practice doesn't violate the Jewish prohibition against idolatry or the 1st commandment.

The Trinity answers your question.

OP: Fourth, is it not sufficient for me to consider Jesus a rabbi?

Sufficient for what? Are you able to follow the Mosaic Law perfectly like Jesus Christ?

Hope this answers your questions.

Answer 3

To address a part of the question not yet addressed by other answers (as of the posting of this answer), a key part of understanding Jesus as the Messiah (and the Messiah in general) is understanding that he is God. Not another God—God is one; Jesus is the one and only God, the second person of the Trinity. If the Messiah were a mere man, Isaiah 53 which depicts God putting to death a man as a sacrifice for the sins of people would depict a human sacrifice which much OT scripture makes clear is prohibited as an abomination to God. But the Messiah wasn’t just a man—he was and is God, and so the sacrifice was God sacrificing his life in the flesh to bear our sins upon himself and then rise again from the dead. If you read Isaiah 53 in its entirety you see a death to take away our sins as a guilt offering, a burial, and a resurrection to life depicted. It makes no sense unless the Messiah is God unless he is Jesus, God in the flesh.

Isaiah 53 isn’t the only place where we see that the Messiah is God. Isaiah 9:6-7 says:

⁶ For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

It would be blasphemous in the extreme to call any human being “Mighty God” or “Everlasting Father” but if the son to be born is God then it’s not only ok but expected that he be addressed that way.

These are not the only OT passages that make it clear that the Messiah was to be God come in the flesh to die for the sins of the world and be raised again to life but they suffice. They also answer the concern about a man fulfilling the obligations of another under the Law. You are correct that this is impossible. But it is not impossible for God to fulfill them as he is perfect and sinless. Thus God came in the flesh, Jesus the son of God, the second person of the Trinity, Jesus the Messiah, sinless though tempted in every way, fulfilled the righteousness requirements of the Law in us who believe in him. I recommend you read the New Testament books of Romans and Hebrews if you haven’t already. They go into a lot more detail about this than I reasonably can here. Also, the book of Matthew demonstrates over and over again how Jesus is the fulfillment of many OT prophecies about the Messiah.

Jesus being God is also why Christians aren’t idolaters: because the Messiah is God come in the flesh, and so we worship the one and only God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It isn’t a NT invention; there is strong support for it all throughout the OT including in chapter 1 of Genesis.

Also, note that there is only one Messiah not two. The conquering king is also the meek bringer of salvation:

Zechariah 9:9-10

⁹ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. ¹⁰ I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the war horse from Jerusalem; and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace to the nations; his rule shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

Regarding whether it’s enough to consider Jesus your rabbi, Jesus said the following:

Luke 6:46-49

⁴⁶ “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? ⁴⁷ Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: ⁴⁸ he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. ⁴⁹ But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.”

John 6:28-29

²⁸ Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” ²⁹ Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

John 3:16-18

¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷ For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. ¹⁸ Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

If we want to follow Jesus we must do so on his terms, and that means first of all believing in him as the Messiah and repenting of our sins. If reject his words in this matter and try to come to him on our terms, we will be condemned as he himself said. But if we do believe in him as Messiah and repent of our sins we will have eternal life as he himself also said. There is no middle ground, no third option, though there’s no reason for one either. The gift that Jesus is holding out to you is fantastic beyond imagination. Our sins will be forgiven, we’ll be credited with the righteousness of God, we’ll be called children of God, God himself will be our God and will dwell with us and will wipe every tear from our eyes, we’ll see his face, we’ll have treasure in heaven, the list of incredible blessings goes on and on. And in this life we have someone to lean on who will never fail, someone perfect in love, goodness, power, faithfulness, knowledge, etc. A source of peace and joy that cannot be found anywhere else in this life, a true purpose, certainty as we approach our own death, comfort, and hope in difficulties and troubles, a Heavenly Father who is near not far. If you choose to follow Jesus, to believe in him as the Messiah, that he’s the Son of God who died for our sins, was buried, and on the third day was raised again, and you repent of your sins, it will be the best decision you will ever make in your entire life, and I pray and have been praying that you do make that decision.

Answer 4

I recommend you to study these sites in details for detailed answers of the Jewish objections to Jesus. Michael L. Brown has debated various Rabbis on these topics, and his debates are on youtube. This biblestudying site has amazing quotations from sources like Brown, read all the pages on that site: Rabbinical Judaism Accepts Christian Interpretations (Part 5)

8. On the Death of Man Atoning for Sin – Typical Perception of Traditional Judaism:

God does not require or accept human sacrifice. The Messiah is a conquering King, not a dying priest.

Actual Interpretations of Talmudic (or Rabbinic) Judaism:

The death of a righteous man atones for the sins of many. It is only the blood (of the righteous) that provides atonement for sins even as the death of the High Priest atones for sin.

56. Here are the words of a respected Orthodox Jewish historian, Rabbi Berel Wein. How was it that the Jewish people survived the horrors of the massacres in Eastern Europe in the seventeenth century? According to Rabbi Wein:

Another consideration tinged the Jewish response to the slaughter of its people. It was an old Jewish tradition dating back to Biblical times that the death of the righteous and innocent served as an expiation for the sins of the nation or the world. The stories of Isaac and of Nadav and Avihu, the prophetic description of Israel as the long-suffering servant of the Lord, the sacrificial service in the Temple – all served to reinforce this basic concept of the death of the righteous as an atonement for the sins of other men. Jews nurtured this classic idea of death as an atonement, and this attitude towards their own tragedies was their constant companion throughout their turbulent exile. Therefore, the wholly bleak picture of unreasoning slaughter was somewhat relieved by the fact that the innocent did not die in vain and that the betterment of Israel and humankind somehow was advanced by their “stretching their neck to be slaughtered.” What is amazing is that this abstract, sophisticated, theological thought should have become so ingrained in the psyche of the people that even the least educated and most simplistic of Jews understood the lesson and acted upon it, giving up precious life in a soaring act of belief and affirmation of the better tomorrow. This spirit of the Jews is truly reflected in the historical chronicle of the time: “Would the Holy One, Blessed is He, dispense judgment without justice? But we may say that he whom God loves will be chastised. For since the day the Holy Temple was destroyed, the righteous are seized by death for the iniquities of the generation” (Yeven Metzulah, end of Chapter 15). 262 – Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, Volume 2, Theological Objections, p. 155

The concept of substitutionary atoning sacrifice does not mean that the innocent animal or man somehow obeyed the commands on our behalf, and we are absolved from them. It simply means a symbolic sacrifice which saves others. Also see JewsforJesus and OneforIsrael and their youtube channels.

The Talmud is a library of various Rabbinic commentaries, which often disagree among each other. The concept of two Messiahs was interpreted due to the fact of contradictory Messianic roles, one being a meek suffering and dying servant, son of Joseph, and the second son of David, the King and ruler. We find the consolidation of the two images through the full revelation of the Messiah, that the same Son of Joseph who first came as a servant, will come again to judge the world as the Son of David. The Talmud and Mishnah were compiled after the temple destruction and its main goal was to counter Christianity, where we see that its literature is highly biased against Christian interpretation of the prophecies. The Talmud was written down many centuries later, and does not represent the first century Judaism the way the New Testament does. The extent of the deviation of Jewish mainstream beliefs can be witnessed by the fact that Rabbinic Jews have virtually rejected the concept of the substitutionary atonement altogether, in order to counter Christianity, and they even also ignored and forgotten the concept of Messiah due to the fact that they have nobody to fit that role, and they have various failed Messiahs. Jesus is the best candidate by far, especially on the evidence that he has brought the light of God to all nations around the world, and all of us have his commandments and knowledge.

As for idolatry, you should not confuse the mainstream Church of Rome, or the Protestant sect (a formed Roman version) with the Biblical first century Christianity, to put the blame of idolatry and various other errors by the mainstream adherents on the Messiah and his disciples. You should simply judge Christian theology based on reading the New Testament. The same way, we should not pretend to confuse the current Rabbinic and Orthodox Judaism sects to be representative of the second temple period Jewish religion.

Mere Rabbi or the Saviour?
You should read the epistle of Hebrew in the NT which urges the Jewish brothers to remember the consequence of rejecting such a great salvation. If it was not possible to simply accept Moses as a good teacher, then how much more important is our submission to the Messiah. If Jesus is really the Messiah, it means he is God's son, the Metatron. Belief and hope of the Messiah is one of the tenets of Judaism according to RamBam; the sages taught that the Torah only teaches of the Messiah, then our life should be attracted to receive this saviour and sole mediator for God, as a devout worshipper. He deserves our worship and not just a respect of a good mortal rabbi.

Answer 5

See @Mike's answer for your first question. But I'd point out that the earliest Christians were virtually all Jews, and in Acts 21:20 thousands of them are described as "all zealous for the Law." So there does not appear to be any reason why a person cannot be a practicing Jew and a Christian at the same time. About the other three questions:

• Why can we not accept Jesus as the messiah ben Joseph? I don't know of any church that requires Jesus be accepted as the messiah son of David, although this is clearly the traditional belief. One impediment I see is the fact that Jesus seems to accept the son of David epithet during his Triumphal Entry and elsewhere. Plus, Paul say Jesus was a "descendant of David according to the flesh" in Rom. 1:2. However, since elsewhere the NT says Jesus was NOT a physical descendant of David, it makes sense that he could be messiah ben Joseph or even the messiah ben Aaron. Indeed, the Book of Hebrews describes Jesus' role as more priestly than royal. Bottom line, your idea is not traditional but probably not heretical.

• I don't understand how the current Christian practice doesn't violate the Jewish prohibition against idolatry or the 1st commandment. We are not supposed to give personal advice here, but clearly you should follow your conscience rather than any practice that violates your understanding of God's commandment. You can find a number of defenses on this site regarding Christian practices such as venerating icons, if that is what you mean. If you refer to Christian teachings about Jesus' divinity, you may need to find a community that is non-trinitarian.

• "Is it not sufficient for me to consider Jesus a rabbi?" Not of you goal is "salvation" in the traditional Christian sense of the word. (See Mike's answer again.) However, the bottom line is whether - when we graduate from this life to the next - God will judge us based on our heart and our actions, or based on what we believe about Jesus. Some very important Christian theologians believe that following one's conscience is even more important than saying "I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior."

Answer 6

The "Jewish Law" of the Talmud and other "historical" documents are not God's word. They are the writings of the traditions of men, and are not scripture. The Law given at Sinai for the tribes of Israel were definitely substitutionary, all of them pointing to, foreshadowing the Messiah.

2 `Speak unto the sons of Israel, and thou hast said unto them, Any man of you when he doth bring near an offering to Jehovah, out of the cattle -- out of the herd, or out of the flock -- ye do bring near your offering.

3 `If his offering [is] a burnt-offering out of the herd -- a male, a perfect one, he doth bring near, unto the opening of the tent of meeting he doth bring it near, at his pleasure, before Jehovah;

4 and he hath laid his hand on the head of the burnt-offering, and it hath been accepted for him to make atonement for him; (Lev. 1:2-4, YLT)

Atonement: Strong's Heb. 3722, "kaphar" - to appease, cover, pacify, make propitiation (Source: Biblehub)

27 `And if any person of the people of the land sin through ignorance, by his doing [something against] one of the commands of Jehovah [regarding things] which are not to be done, and hath been guilty -- 28 or his sin which he hath sinned hath been made known unto him, then he hath brought in his offering, a kid of the goats, a perfect one, a female, for his sin which he hath sinned,

29 and he hath laid his hand on the head of the sin-offering, and hath slaughtered the sin-offering in the place of the burnt-offering. 30 `And the priest hath taken of its blood with his finger, and hath put on the horns of the altar of the burnt-offering, and all its blood he doth pour out at the foundation of the altar,

31 and all its fat he doth turn aside, as the fat hath been turned aside from off the sacrifice of the peace-offerings, and the priest hath made perfume on the altar, for sweet fragrance to Jehovah; and the priest hath made atonement for him, and it hath been forgiven him. (Lev. 4:27:31, YLT)

The laying on of the hands came with a confession of sin before the priest. Atonement could not be made without it. It was a consent to the plan of sacrificial substitution and the transference of the sin. The animal died in the sinner's place. It is not possible that sin can be forgiven without the blood sacrifice.

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. (Lev. 17:11, KJV)

The prophesy of the Messiah's substitutionary death for us:

4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace [is] on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us. 6 All of us like sheep have wandered, Each to his own way we have turned, And Jehovah hath caused to meet on him, The punishment of us all.

7 It hath been exacted, and he hath answered, And he openeth not his mouth, As a lamb to the slaughter he is brought, And as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, And he openeth not his mouth. 8 By restraint and by judgment he hath been taken, And of his generation who doth meditate, That he hath been cut off from the land of the living? By the transgression of My people he is plagued,(Isa. 53:4-8, YLT)

The Lamb of God, foreknown from the beginning, destined from the beginning to be the payment for our sins. All of the Hebrew scriptures were pointing to that one Messiah, Immanuel who would willingly bear our sins and die for us.

10 And I have poured on the house of David, And on the inhabitant of Jerusalem, A spirit of grace and supplications, And they have looked unto Me whom they pierced, And they have mourned over it, Like a mourning over the only one, And they have been in bitterness for it, Like a bitterness over the first-born. (Zech 12:10, YLT)

See the list here of the Hebrew scriptures that trace to the New Testament scriptures for their fulfillment of Yeshua's sacrifice, His death, burial, and resurrection on our behalf. There is only one Messiah, and He has already made that sacrifice for our sins at the hands of the Romans, as delivered up by the Sanhendrin in the 1st century AD, circa 30-31 AD.

Yeshua, the son of God, sent by YHVH, our heavenly Father. We worship YHVH through His son because Yeshua paid the price, and is our mediator with our Father in heaven. Yeshua's blood covers our sins as we confess of them, and restores us to our Father in heaven. It is not idol worship of a pagan "god". It is acknowledgment of the One who was with God in the beginning who said,

`Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, ... (Gen. 1:26)

and without whom nothing was created.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; 2 this one was in the beginning with God; 3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened. (John 1:1-3, YLT)

Answer 7

[I'm dealing with a high fever that makes concentrating difficult so I hope I manage to make sense as I write here.]

I'm going to focus on just one aspect of your question:

Third, I don't understand how the current Christian practice doesn't violate the Jewish prohibition against idolatry or the 1st commandment.

A Jewish scholar something like twenty years ago published a book about the Jewish concept of "two powers in heaven", setting off a stream of research by a number of scholars into the idea. The concept comes down to the observation that in the Tanakh there is plainly a YHWH in heaven and at the same time there are clear instances where at the very same time there is a YHWH Who walks on the Earth in human form. This concept gave no trouble to second-Temple Jews in either the first century BCE or the first century CE; while YHWH was one as the Sh'ma declares He certainly had the prerogative of being two while remaining one.

In the ancient near east there was the concept that there was a divine council that had a head or king as well as a vice-regent who acted on Earth. Dr. Michael Heiser took note of this:

For the orthodox Israelite, Yahweh was both sovereign and vice regent—occupying both “slots” as it were at the head of the divine council. The binitarian portrayal of Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible was motivated by this belief. The ancient Israelite knew two Yahwehs—one invisible, a spirit, the other visible, often in human form. The two Yahwehs at times appear together in the text, at times being distinguished, at other times not.

When Jews in the first century CE encountered the claim that Jesus was YHWH that claim fit quite well with the "two powers" doctrine: the YHWH Who walked on Earth in the form of a man had actually become a man, literally עִמָּנוּאֵל, "Immanuel" -- "God with us". They thus saw no idolatry in worshipping One Whom they had always worshipped; Jesus was just the "second YHWH", the YHWH Who walked on Earth as a man who had become a man in order to be, as the prophet put it, the "only Savior".

So Christians no more see a problem with worshipping Jesus than Abraham did when he recognized YHWH among the "three men" who came to Mamre to talk.

Answer 8

First off all, I hope and pray you recover quickly!

Secondly, I want to preface my answer by letting you know that while I have been a life-long Christian, my answers are going to probably be a bit different than the others here. Whilst raised with standard protestant perspectives, I became very interested in theology in high school when my dad started his ordination process - and it has become a life long passion. As a result of my studies, my views have changed drastically. For instance: I am no longer a Trinitarian, which will become relevant to some of your questions. However, while my interpretations are not main stream, drawing doctrine through the proper interpretation of scripture is still fundamental to my approach to theology; and informed by external sources that provide historical context and details that are missing from the scriptures. I'm not a fundamentalist who thinks scripture has no errors in it, nor am I a so-called "liberal theologian" who attempts to dismiss God, miracles, etc. from my interpretations - I always seek to first and foremost understand what the intended teachings of the scriptures are.

I struggle with accepting Jesus as the messiah given Jewish prophecy/law. So for example:

Isaiah 53 speaks of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant, One who is led as a lamb to the slaughter and who takes our sorrows, infirmities, and punishment on Himself.

In this particular case for example no one can fulfill my obligations under Jewish law; facetious as it may sound no one can honor the commandments on my behalf or eat kosher on my behalf these are my obligations so I do not understand the Christian belief that through Jesus I am saved. He cannot my sins and my responsibilities for atonement onto himself per Jewish law.

Jesus himself said that he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets - but to fulfill them. Furthermore, he taught that the one who keeps the Law and teaches others to do the same will be great in the kingdom - while one who teaches others to not follow the Law will be least in the kingdom. In fact, he said that in order to even get into the kingdom your righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees (Matthew 5:17-20).

Contrary to what many say - Jesus and the rest of the NT do not teach that nothing is required of you. Even though Gentiles aren't required to convert to Judaism and enter into the Mosaic Covenant - we yet have God's Law. That is, after all, the promise of the New Covenant: that God would write his Law on our hearts and we would be His people.

Furthermore, Christ actually taught us to go above and beyond the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law, after all, is not the perfect will of God - but a compromise between God and sinful man. Hence the Mosaic Law permits divorce. It specifies all kinds of sacrifices for sins - even though God's will is that you don't sin in the first place. Hence in Isaiah God laments all of the sacrifices and festivals - even though they are in the Law given through Moses. The Mosaic Law permits slavery - even though when God created man and woman they were equal. It was only in the fall that women were made subservient to men; the beginning of inequality and slavery. The ideal - as found in Christ - is that there is no Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave nor freeman; but that we all be united as one people (Galatians 3:28).

After all, the Law specifies what is required of us. What reward is there for not murdering and not stealing or the like? These are simply basic moral stipulations that are required of all of us. So the Law only condemns us as sinners - it does not make one righteous. Nevertheless, the Law points us towards God - for God is love. If someone wrongs you - forgive them. If they slap you - present your other cheek. If they want to steal your cloak, give them your shirt as well, etc. These aren't moral precepts that Christ taught - he is instructing us to go beyond what morality, what the Law requires of us and to sacrifice of ourselves for the sake of God and our fellowman.

So yes - as a Jew under the Mosaic Law, you should keep the Law to the best of your ability. But if you would follow Christ's teachings, then you must move beyond the requirements of the Law and give all of yourself to God, sacrificing everything. For by losing your life you will save it.

Now you may ask, why did Christ then die if we are still required to follow God's Law? Just as the Nohaide and Mosaic Covenants were ratified by blood - so too was the New Covenant ratified by the blood of Christ. For the blood is life; and Christ lived a life in perfect obedience to God's Will - even to his death. And the New Covenant was necessary because the Mosaic Covenant was made with the flesh - to the physical descendants of Israel. But righteousness cannot be inherited by the flesh. Try as you might, each generation and each individual must struggle with good and evil, and with whether they will live for God or for their sinful desires. And so over and over again the Covenant has been broken by Israel overtime - and they have suffered the consequences accordingly.

The New Covenant is not made with the flesh - but with those who live in the Spirit; those who know and walk according to God's Law proper; those who live by love. Christ said that those who do the will of God are his mother, and brothers, and sisters (Matthew 12:50).

And we observe this design all the way back in Genesis with Cain, Abel, and Seth. For Abel was righteous - for he did what was right. Cain slays Abel and is banished from the Lord's presence, is cursed so that the earth will no longer give up its strength to him, and is cursed to wander. Eve subsequently gave birth to Seth, and she says that God gave her Seth in place of Abel. And through Seth we get a righteous line of people (vs the violent line of Cain).

This design pops up again with the final three plagues: locusts, darkness, and the death of the firstborn. First the locusts represents Cain's curse of the earth no longer giving up its strength to him - via the locusts eating all the vegetation. Next the light over Israel represents God's favor and presence with Israel, whereas the darkness represents Cain's being cast out of God's presence. Finally, in the last plague the slain lamb/goat represents Abel - the blood of the righteous causing judgement to passover - whilst Israel = Seth, the righteous line given in his place - descendants of Abel in accordance by their deeds rather than by their genes.

Again, we have Yom Kippur with the two goats - one chosen for the Lord and the other as the scapegoat. The one chosen for the Lord is as Abel, and is slain for the sins of Israel. The scapegoat - like Cain - is banished from the Lord's presence and is cursed to wander in the wilderness. Israel is in turn symbolically Seth - the righteous line that is given in place of Abel.

So you see, Christ dying for our sins is perfectly in line with the model of salvation established by God in the Hebrew Bible. Christ is Abel, Christ is the passover lamb, Christ is the goat of the Lord on Yom Kippur, etc. And during his own trial - Barabbas served as Cain, and the scapegoat.

Second, the Talmud as well as historical documents recognize two messiahs: one messiah being the son of Joseph and two Davidic messiahs. From my reading of the historic documents Jesus clearly meets the criteria of the messiah son of Joseph while does not necessarily meet by Jewish standards the criteria of the Davidic messiah. Why can we not accept Jesus as the messiah ben joseph?

Moses prophesied that God would raise up one like himself from among the people. Moses was a priest (even higher than Aaron the High Priest), a ruler of Israel, a prophet, and a savior of Israel. However, through sin these roles became divided so that under the Mosaic Covenant only particular lines could hold particular offices.

A priest had to be a descendant of Aaron in the Mosaic Covenant. But Aaron got raises to his position as Moses’ prophet because Moses sinned annd would not do as the Lord said, but insisted that he send someone else.

Again, Israel was supposed to be a nation of priests for all firstborns were to be dedicated to God. However, after the Golden Calf incident God changed his mind and took the Levites instead of the firstborns of all the tribes.

For a time Israel was ruled by prophets and judges - but then they sinfully demanded to have a King like other nations. So they got Saul who was replaced by David. But David wasn't descended from Aaron, so it is impossible that under the Mosaic Covenant that there could be one person to hold the office of both King and Priest.

This is undoubtedly why there are multiple such Messiah figures in the Rabbinic tradition; because it would be impossible under the Mosaic Covenant for these roles to be united under one figure. However, the Messiah is someone who will restore all things. This means that the true Messiah - as the one like Moses - must also fulfill all these offices. And the only way that that can happen is through the establishment of the New Covenant and the establishment of a corresponding new priesthood. For in Christianity, all are priests - all are called to serve God. And there is no physical Christian nation - but the kingdom is manifested anywhere and everywhere that we do the will of God.

Third, I don't understand how the current Christian practice doesn't violate the Jewish prohibition against idolatry or the 1st commandment.

As I noted earlier, I am not a Trinitarian myself - though I was raised such. Rather, I argue that we should follow the biblical precedent in the Hebrew Bible where Moses is said to be God (Exodus 7:1), angels are are addressed as if God and speak as if God (like the angel in the burning bush in Exodus 3), and Jesus interprets the Psalms as saying that those who have received the Word of God are "gods" (John 10:34-35). None of these are treated as false gods - like those worshiped by other nations - but rather are addressed as God due to their being God's representatives. Since Christ is the perfect representative of God - always acting precisely as God has instructed and wills - and as the one like Moses, it is natural then that Jesus also be addressed as God in the same sense as Moses.

Unfortunately, after 70 AD and the start of the Jewish Diaspora the gentiles were left to interpret scripture without a strong Jewish-Christian voice like Paul. The Church Fathers who were educated so as to write theological treatises and leave their impact on the formation of Church doctrine were ones who had recieved education in Greek Philosophy and such - and they tended to have great adoration for Plato. This was bolstered by tales of how Plato had gotten his ideas from Moses. In Alexandria they also had the Helenistic interpretations of Philo Judeaus; whom St. Jerome considered to be a "genius."

Finally, the worst thing possible happened and Constantine made Christianity the state religion. Not only was this contrary previous teachings (The kingdom is of heaven, not a worldly nation) but out of fear of schism Constantine initiated the Nicean Council to try to get the Church to standardize its beliefs. This led to beuracracy and ever shifting politics deciding what doctrines Christians had to agree to - lest "in the name of God" other "Christians" do horrible things to them like banishment and death.

The establishment of "orthodoxy" is, IMO, fundamentally erroneous and the source of many of the evils done in God's name. Nothing wrong with tradition mind - there is great value in tradition. But when tradition becomes blindly enforced and deviance is treated as heresy - you are no longer allowing God to work in people, nor for individual's to grow spiritually. Questioning becomes the same as putting your salvation in jeopardy - which is why so many Christians today are afraid of honestly studying and engaging with competing view points... I could keep going on this topic - but I don't want to deviate too much from your main questions :)

Fourth, is it not sufficient for me to consider Jesus a rabbi?

Unpopular opinion (again): While salvation is through Christ, I am not of the mind that one's doctrines determine whether one is saved or not. As talked about brilliantly in James 2, faith devoid of action is dead and cannot save you. The value of belief is that it serves to guide your actions - but it is your actions that you are judged by.

In Romans 2, Paul talks about how Gentiles - despite not having received the Mosaic Law - have yet become a Law unto themselves; their conscience both serving to defend and condemn them before God. It is those who pursue what is right and good with their life that are rewarded eternal life.

To defend this notion, let us consider the model of salvation in the Hebrew Bible once more. Who was saved in the flood? Noah himself - the righteous prophet - and those near and dear to him: his wife, sons, and his son's wives. And of course all the animals.

And in the 10th plague, who did Moses save? Ie: who did he instruct about the passover? For the plague didn't specifically passover the Hebrews, but anyone household with the blood of the lamb/goat on the doorposts and lintel. This knowledge Moses only shared with His people; his fellow Jews that he sought to save from slavery. And those who obeyed (which, uncharacteristically, was all of them this time) were saved.

So we see that those who are known by the righteous prophet in question are saved. Likewise, in several places in the NT in talking about the judgement, Jesus says that it is not sufficient to cry "Lord, Lord" to be saved - he will reject you before the Father saying "I never knew you."

The question then becomes: how is it that we can be known by Jesus and, in turn, by God? Here is what I have found: the one through whom the love of God is made known shall in turn be made known to God through those that have been shown love.

For instance, in the parable of the sheep and goats where Jesus is judging between those who will be rewarded with eternal life and those to be punished, the criteria has nothing to do with doctrine. Instead, they are differentiated based upon their actions towards the least of these. And he takes it a step further says that whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for Him, and whatever you did not do for the least of these you did not do for Him (Matthew 25:31-46).

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And I would like to offer one last thought for you to consider: It is not possible for another Messiah to come after Jesus anymore than it was possible for the magicians in Egypt to once more turn the Nile to blood. After all, in order to demonstrate that they could truly do the same thing as the LORD, they would first have to turn the Nile back into water. But if they could do that - then Pharaoh would not have needed to ask Moses to call off the plague.

Similarly, the nations already worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. False prophets may come and claim to be the Messiah - but they are powerless against the blood of Christ; at best they can hope to mimic him on small scale. Like how the magicians might have used the ground water - left unpolluted by the Lord - to try to replicate the Nile turning to blood. The only one who could turn the nations away from God now would be by an act of God - but why would God drive people away from worshiping Him? So then, there can be no other Messiah but Jesus.

I hope this helps :)