As a DM, what should I do if a person decides to play a rogue? [closed]

Question

I am planning to start a D&D group next year and last year I got a teacher who would do it. This would be the first time, and I'll most likely have to be the DM. @enkryptor (at Intelligence vs Wisdom in D&D) said to refrain from stealing from the party unless all players approve, and I like that rule, but would that still count if you were a rogue, which is described as "A scoundrel who uses stealth and trickery to overcome obstacles and enemies". And according to that, they would probably end up as a thief, endangering the rest of the group. So what do I do if somebody wants to be a rogue? I can't just say, "No, pick a different type," right? Wouldn't that be disrespectful?

Answer 1

The other answers are good, but I'd like to approach this from a different direction.

Everyone knows the value of allies.

Most characters, in games, in media, anywhere, have allies they trust and work with. In D&D, this is pretty much a necessity. The entire game is designed around being in a "party" that you can trust and work together with.

So a good D&D character, no matter the class, should be able to tell the difference between allies and enemies. Rogues steal things, sure, but they steal from their enemies, not their allies. Wizards explode things, but they don't explode their allies. Paladins smite things, but they don't smite their allies. The game doesn't function very well otherwise.

Players matter more than characters.

The point of D&D is to sit down together and play a game and have fun. If someone's character motivations are getting in the way of that, then change the character! If "it's just what my character would do" is making the game less fun for everyone, the players have the power to decide otherwise.

Putting these two together…

If someone insists on making a character who attacks their allies, tell that person to make a different character. The most awesome backstory and character motivations in the world don't matter if it's making the game less fun for the actual people at the table.

Answer 2

I would like to preface this question by saying that it's difficult to know how a person will act at any given time for any given reason. There's every bit of possibility that just picking a rogue will edge a player to be more tricky. However I will be coming at this answer as a partial frame challenge simply because it is a generalization of a class.

Trickery and Deceit are not Rogue exclusives

Now, rogues are masterful skill monkeys and their class can be prone to some skullduggery. The Thief subclass is very well crafted to, well, thieve. However, it is not the only class capable of such things. Bards are as skillful as rogues with access to magic that can "persuade" creatures to gift items they would rather not. Mages of all types can trivialize sneaking around and pilfering while Druids are probably even better at stealing from others than Rogues because who's gonna expect the spider on the wall to turn into a man, load his bags down, then transform back and slip away.

On the opposite end, the Assassin can steal but their primary ability set is to deal massive damage from stealth. And the additional subclasses use the rogue skillset in even less efficient ways toward the acts of thievery (swashbucklers, inquisitives, masterminds, etc.). So you can easily have a rogue that has never stolen a thing in their life or only employed those skills for good (e.g. Indiana Jones style).

Above the Table behavior

Due to this, it's far simpler to set forth an above table rule about stealing against party members and to let the story determine the consequences against NPCs. If a player wants to steal something from another player, even as a joke, that's time to go above board. And then sort the issue out that way as you talk through boundaries and what may/may not be acceptable at the table. In my experience, ironically, the situations where this type of behavior came up was against the Rogue.

Consequences make a good story

Now, my final advice as a DM. If you're worried about someone endangering the party, don't. You will never be able to come up with a rule that will keep your players safe from themselves. Like child-proof bottle caps, a dedicated player will always find a way to get themselves and the party in deep. And they may even get blamed for the consequences that follow. But that's not your job. Let the dice fall where they may, let the players have agency, and let the players have consequences.

Of course, as DM you have final say. You can just say "I don't want Rogues in this campaign" and either your players accept that or suggest something else to assuage your fears. But I urge you to consider taking the hard road. Rogues offer a fundamental playstyle that has been in D&D since the beginning and I guarantee you can find a person willing to play a Rogue who's pure as a saint.

Answer 3

What you're asking is one small facet of two very (very!) large questions common to most, if not all, role-playing games:

1. How do the players and GM agree on the type of game they want to play?
2. How do the players and GM agree on how they want to treat each other?

"What do we do about thieves and characters who steal?" is definitely in that vein.

Session Zero

A lot of the answers to questions like those boil down to the idea of a "session zero" so-called because it happens before the first "real" session of a game. (We're defining the first "real" session as the session where characters have been rolled up and people are playing their characters.)

There are a lot of good questions and answers about this subject right here (including especially this one and that one) and other places on the web. But the basic idea is that it is a conversation about the game, before the game begins, that sets some ground rules and expectations.

Unfortunately for starting GMs, it's probably easier to run a Session Zero if you've already played in a D&D campaign. I hope you still find these links and this idea useful.

Motivation, Motivation, Motivation

As some of the comments have alluded to already, one trick to having productive rogues in a party is to help the player figure out where the character got their rogue skills from and-- most importantly-- where there motivations are.

Sometimes this is really simple: The rogue is a former criminal who doesn't steal from his or her companions. Or even, is currently a criminal, but who is loyal to their companions.

But there are a lot of ways to handle this.

In a game I once ran, a rogue character was very conspicuously modeled after Indiana Jones (for the traps and dungeon exploration aspects) and was an archaeologist affiliated with a magical university. This was a brilliant fit for the game I was running, and this guy wouldn't even think of stealing from his adventuring companions-- he handled traps, they handled the undead monsters.

In a game I am currently in, I play a rogue who comes from a non-human culture where there are professionals that play roles in clan wars by stealing back all the stuff that was illicitly stolen in the last war. But she would never steal from her own clan, and now that she's in the wider world she is savvy enough to know that you don't steal from your companions, and you don't steal everything that isn't nailed down.

Those are just two examples that are vivid in my mind right now. The point isn't, "Make your hypothetical rogue player play an Indiana Jones clone." The point is, if you have a player who wants to play a rogue, try to end up with rogues who have skills that they use for the benefit of the group, not for their own benefit at the expense of the group. And one good way to do that is by having a good character motivation.

(Also, I don't want to overstate the case, here. Sometimes, some players will play rogues that don't work will with their party-- for example, by stealing from them. You've anticipated something real. But there are also many players who will intuitively understand that the player characters are all on the same team, and won't need any special handling at all.)

Answer 4

Session 0

Session 0 is always the way to talk about this. Lay out ground rules about what you expect from the players and what they can expect from you. If you don't want stealing from the party, then say this is something you won't have in your game.

Always address the player, not the class.

The cool thing about D&D is you can play it however you want. A rogue doesn't have to be a thief, or a scoundrel. A bard doesn't have to be a musician, smashing out lute solos after defeating an enemy. Each player will play their character differently. If there are certain things you don't want happening, the player can be addressed.

Backstories

Coming up with a backstory can be a good way to get some kind of idea about each character. You can work with your players to craft backstories that will work in your campaign. I currently play a rogue in a campaign I am in. I went for the assassin subclass as my backstory is a former assassin who got too close to a target and turned his back on that life and is now working to protect people. This meant I was able to have it make sense when I put proficiency expertise into things like stealth, sleight of hand and investigation. Then using a background as Faction Agent meant story-wise I was able to use old contacts for information etc. There's lots of ways to play a rogue!

Don't worry about things that haven't happened

Perhaps nobody picks rogue. Maybe all your players want to be in melee of the front lines, or blasting enemies with damaging spells from a distance. All you need to do really is wait and see what happens at the time and address it if someone happens to choose the rogue class. There's plenty of advice here and in other answers. Happy gaming!

Answer 5

Treat them as any other player

I can't just say, "No, pick a different type," right?

Right. The Rogue is a valid class, as good as another.

refrain from stealing from the party unless all players approve, and I like that rule, but would that still count

Yes, it still counts regardless of a class the player choose. The rules are the same for everyone.

if you were a rogue, which is described as "A scoundrel who uses stealth and trickery to overcome obstacles and enemies"

So what? Table rules are for players, not for characters. The players have agreed on something, and shouldn't break this agreement. If someone (not necessarily the rogue player) starts stealing from the party, politely remind them to stick to the agreement. Class description is not an excuse for an inappropriate behavior.

according to that, they would probably end up as a thief, endangering the rest of the group

Would they? If they misbehaves, you should intervene. But you can't punish people for what they could have done.

Answer 6

Talk with the player

I think that you and the player need to understand is that Rogue is not a behavior, but a set of skills.
Make sure he understands that. Explain that you want RPG to be about making adventures together.
Ask him whether he would steal from a person he risks his life with everyday.
Would he backstab somebody who is standing between him and a monster.
That stealing willy-nilly will have consequences.

Everybody, not just the Rogue, should know that just because somebody can do something, does not mean they should.

• If your friend in real life knows how to shoot a gun, are you afraid he will randomly start shooting when you go for a drink?
• If your friend is a IT security specialist, are you afraid he will try to hack everything possible?
• If your friend trains judo, does he randomly grab all the people on the street to throw them?

Don't get me wrong - beginner players sometimes fall into this trap - that stealing is all there is to a thief, no matter from who or when. But if you simply make sure this person knows that you are all forming a party, this should not be a major problem.

Finally, doing stupid things from time to time can be the source of the most fun and memorable adventures.