2
$\begingroup$

Ram scoop ships are a well-loved element of hard science fiction, typically employing magnetic fields to harvest interstellar gas. However, this concept often grapples with practical issues like drag and other dynamic interactions.

My latest musings have pivoted towards utilizing feedable artificial micro black holes as a sustainable power source. With a black hole mass around half a million (actually 50 to 500 billion) tons, we could theoretically harness hundreds of petawatts of energy, giving the black hole a lifespan of several years.

Given such a potent energy reservoir, I'm curious about the feasibility of a laser-based ram scoop that eschews traditional material components in favor of a conical laser configuration. This setup would involve forward-facing lasers—potentially in the ultraviolet, X-ray, or gamma ray spectrum—to ionize interstellar gases.

The idea is to utilize Coulomb scattering, with the lasers angled approximately 40 degrees relative to the vessels’s vector, aiming to direct the protons down the collector’s throat. These protons could then be harnessed as reaction mass or even fed into the black hole.

However, I'm unsure about the physics underpinning this concept, particularly the momentum transfer between photons and protons and whether Coulomb scattering would efficiently collect interstellar hydrogen in front of the vessel over a significant area.

Has anyone delved into the mechanics of such a system, or can shed light on whether this laser-based approach could physically function as intended?

EDIT 1: I only care about the feasibility of the laser based collection scoop. The details of the rocket do not matter. This is not a frame challenge, this is about one little physics trick with photons and protons.

EDIT 2: Here is the paper I am referring to. The science behind this is better than behind any warp drive. I messed up my mass estimation. I want a black hole between 5 and 50 Billion tons. About the mass of a medium asteroid. And similar in size to a proton.

$\endgroup$
12
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ As this is hard science, answers will be expected to have equations to back them up. However, as a comment, I fear you may have turned one problem into another. Those black holes are massive and needed to be accelerated. While the answers come in, I encourage you to look at the energy density of a black hole (and the mechanism you are planning to use to get energy from it, of course), and see whether or not you created an even larger problem than you started with. $\endgroup$
    – Cort Ammon
    Commented Jun 25 at 14:35
  • $\begingroup$ @CortAmmon The idea is based on a research paper on black holes as energy sources and starship drives. So unless the researchers got the problem wrong, this is workable. Keep in mind that this is not a puny fusion drive. Roughly 90% of the mass energy of whatever we feed into the black hole is turned into a photons or charged particles. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 25 at 15:17
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Black-holes are slippery things, you can't just strap a rocket on one in order to move it. Unless you're proposing something I'm not aware of, you'll need to change the properties of space-time in order to get it to move - or apply an unfeasible amount of mass/energy to it to overcome it's inertia. I'm only mentioning it because you did. If it's not really a salient part of the question, then fine, but if it is, then your society's tech-level must be raised accordingly - giving you the option to manipulate space-time in order to collect protons. $\endgroup$ Commented Jun 25 at 16:55
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ A half-million tonne black hole is going to have a Schwarzschild radius of 7.4e-19m. A proton has a radius in the fermi range of 10e-15m. "Feedable" may not mean what you think it means for a black hole that tiny. Also, at half a million tonnes, its expected lifetime is on the order of about six seconds, not years. $\endgroup$
    – jdunlop
    Commented Jun 25 at 17:57
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Laser ionised, magnetic ramscoops are definitely feasible-ish, plans for using them to mine gas giant atmospheres have been on various drawing boards for decades what you're suggesting here is something else entirely. There are also some serious problems with the details you have given, they don't mesh, a 50 Neuble(Billion Tonne) blackhole has an expected lifespan of 184 quadrillion years and an energy output in the kilowatt range. $\endgroup$
    – Ash
    Commented Jun 26 at 6:39

1 Answer 1

3
$\begingroup$

Drag is exponential to your velocity

Any mass you absorb at relativistic speeds will have to be accelerated to the speed of your ship to become part of it. So depending on how efficient your engine is, your terminal velocity is really easy to find using a simple E=MV² calculation:

Efficiency | Terminal Velocity 90% | 0.810c 80% | 0.640c 70% | 0.490c 60% | 0.360c 50% | 0.250c 40% | 0.160c 30% | 0.090c 20% | 0.040c 10% | 0.010c

How this compares to a ship without a Ram Scoop

If we instead assume a negligible drag on a ship and instead just plan to use up the black hole's mass as a fuel source, then we can look at this more like a Mass to Energy conversion. If a ship weighs 10,000 tons and has a 500,000 ton blackhole for fuel that radiates as light, then we can express this as a ship that weight 510000 tons and averages 250000 tons of mass as energy to speed up and then again to slow down. This gives you base Mass to Energy conversion rate of about 49%. Your efficiency is then multiplied by your conversion rate to offset the efficiency of your drive system and then you take the square of that to find your peak velocity expressed as a fraction of the speed of light. This yields the following table of Maximum velocities showing that a ramscoop, despite its drag, should be capable of peak speeds approximately 3-4 times as great as a shp without:

Efficiency | Terminal Velocity 90% | 0.194c 80% | 0.152c 70% | 0.116c 60% | 0.084c 50% | 0.063c 40% | 0.040c 30% | 0.023c 20% | 0.010c 10% | 0.003c

Other Considerations

The most efficient lasers in the world are only about 50% efficient. So how ever much wattage your black hole is putting out in thrust, you can assume your ship is absorbing at least that much in heat which will need to be radiated over time. On top of that, you have to be very careful not put out so much energy over time that you splatter your crew accelerating too quickly. This means you need a much larger black hole than the 500,000 tons originally posed (I see that the OP updated the mass of his black hole to 5 and 50 Billion tons; so, I'm assuming he already realized this.)

Consequently, a ram scoop will give you a much higher peak speed, but may have a lower acceleration depending on where your ship bottlenecks. If the design of your ship is such that your blackhole is limited by how fast you can radiate heat, then a scoopless ship could have a higher acceleration since it does not need to have a higher output to overcome drag. However, if your ship can radiate heat fast enough that harmful rates of acceleration are possible, then both styles of ships can be engineered to have the same rate of acceleration regardless of how much drag there is.

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ @JBH Thanks, I missed the Hard Science tag. Turns out my whole answer had to be rewritten anyway because I forgot to consider the amount of fuel that a black hole powered rocket would need to save to slow down which led me to grossly overestimate the peak speeds of a ship without a ram scoop. $\endgroup$
    – Nosajimiki
    Commented Jun 26 at 15:51
  • $\begingroup$ Cheers, that's a great answer. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jul 1 at 0:53

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .