4
$\begingroup$

Let me break it down:

Having failed to terraform venus, I am now trying to the process of pantropy to inhabit this world, (pantropy = to adapt humans/Terran life to other planetary environs through genetic engineering. I don’t know whether pantropy can be considered a verb, but hey-ho).

In an absence of surface water I have decided to create life forms that use supercritical carbon dioxide as a solvent. However, beyond this, I am uncertain as to the specifics of this biochemistry. How would using supercritical co2 instead of water as a solvent work?

$\endgroup$
7
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Can you be more specific about what you mean by how would it work? Supercritical CO2 is a solvent. It dissolves things. Are you wanting us to explain the chemistry behind it's ability to dissolve things? are you asking us to write an arbitrarily large amount of fluff about an entre fictional biology based on the single fact that CO2 is used as a solvent. Neither of these questions is particular suitable for this site. $\endgroup$
    – sphennings
    Commented Jan 9, 2023 at 18:12
  • $\begingroup$ Supercritical CO2 appears to exist when the pressure is above 100 bar. Venus' average surface pressure is only 75 bar. Further, it's very difficult to swap water, the "universal solvent," with another solvent. The hydrogen in water plays an enormously important role in biochemistry. CO2 has no hydrogen. Read through this basic explanation and remember that your replacement solvent must do all of those things. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jan 9, 2023 at 18:25
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ I will note that if you're really this determined to have people live on Venus, you can just hand-wave it. If the story is interesting and told well, folks will suspend disbelief. If the story is lame or badly executed, it will not be saved by having rock-solid chemistry. $\endgroup$
    – Tom
    Commented Jan 9, 2023 at 23:59
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I completely agree with @Tom. All the details in the world won't save a bad story and a good story, while enhanced by them, doesn't need them. That's a pretty good standard of judgement when determining how far down the worldbuilding rabbit hole you want to go. Inventing an entirely new biochemistry is so broad that it's usually off-topic and it doesn't help that humanity has never seen a working example. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jan 10, 2023 at 2:11
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I don't see the reason for the close votes. The meaning of the question is clear: could (artificially created) life exist that uses supercritical CO2 as its main solvent instead of water? There certainly isn't any issue of there being more than one question here. $\endgroup$
    – N. Virgo
    Commented Jan 10, 2023 at 2:59

2 Answers 2

7
$\begingroup$

Probably wouldn't work

The problem is that water is an unusually good solvent, dissolving a wide range of substances. It also allows acid base chemistry, has easy to synthesize biological substances that are hydrophobic and hydrophilic, producing one of the mechanisms of protein folding, and life has evolved using it for a few billion years.

Pretty much any biological substitution will be easier than this. We have extremophile organisms that live in boiling acid, temperatures well below zero, and pressures that would crush a human many times over.

By the time you're at the tech level needed to achieve this, it'll probably be much easier to terraform the whole planet

Edit to add in some chemistry ideas:

Venus is generally pretty close to hell, with surface temperatures that would melt lead, crazy pressure etc. There's no real point in trying to engineer life for the surface. Instead, I'd aim for the "habitable zone" - this is 48-70km off the ground, with earth like pressure, and only clouds of boiling sulphuric acid to deal with. Organisms on earth already deal with these kind of conditions, so bioengineering would be much simpler - it's not like a good environment, but at least within biological tolerances

$\endgroup$
3
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ I'd suggest that you need a citation to qualify the assertion that Venus is generally pretty close to hell, except... well... it is. $\endgroup$
    – JBH
    Commented Jan 10, 2023 at 2:12
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ @JBH - to acknowledge my sources, I'm drawing heavily from what-if.xkcd.com/30 , about flying planes on different planets. The quote on Venus is "Your plane would fly pretty well, except it would be on fire the whole time, and then it would stop flying, and then stop being a plane", which is a pretty good indication of how bad Venus is $\endgroup$
    – lupe
    Commented Jan 10, 2023 at 14:49
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I did however forget that the bit we'd be trying to put life into is a permanent category 5 hurricane, which considering all the other problems is probably comparatively simple to solve $\endgroup$
    – lupe
    Commented Jan 10, 2023 at 14:56
2
$\begingroup$

Basically there are two main problems with using CO2 as a solvent for modified Earth-biology.

The first is that CO2 isn't a polar solvent and won't form hydrogen bonds in the same way that water does. This means, I'm fairly certain, that proteins immersed in supercritical CO2 will not fold, or if they do fold they'll fold in completely different ways to the way they fold in water. This means, most likely, that you'd have to find a whole other class of molecules to perform all the roles that proteins play in the cell, which include catalysing all of the cell's reactions as well as structural roles. Swapping out proteins for something else would require changing virtually every molecule in the cell.

The different properties of CO2 will also cause big issues with the cell's membrane. The membrane is made of lipids, which have a hydrophobic and a hydrophilic end. This is possible because of the polar nature of water, so it will be difficult if not impossible to form a similar kind of membrane in supercritical CO2.

The other issue you face is that water doesn't just play the role of a solvent in biochemistry, it's also a very important reagent. Many of the most important biochemical reactions either produce water as a side-product or use it up. So if you were using CO2 as a solvent but still using chemistry similar to Earth-life, you would still need a source of water. This means there would need to be a lot of water around anyway, presumably dissolved in the supercritical CO2.

Although nobody knows for sure, I like to think that life is possible in solvents other than water. But in order to exist it would surely need to be very, very different from the life we know. In your case we would not be talking about a simple case of changing a few genes, but about completely re-designing the molecular architecture of the cell from the bottom up. This might not be impossible, but it's a long way beyond what we're currently capable of.

$\endgroup$

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .