Timeline for What does "salaried" vs. "hourly" mean in a European (?) context?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
27 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| S Aug 31, 2023 at 7:26 | vote | accept | O. R. Mapper | ||
| Aug 31, 2023 at 7:24 | vote | accept | O. R. Mapper | ||
| S Aug 31, 2023 at 7:26 | |||||
| Apr 5, 2023 at 13:28 | comment | added | cbeleites | @O.R.Mapper: AFAIK that needs particular circumstances (management positition + salary above Beitragsbemessungsgrenze) or the maximum amount of overtime that is included in the salary must be specified and cannot be too high. A general "all overtime is compensated already by the fixed salaray" for normal employees is void. (I've regularly met other "copy&paste" clauses in employment contracts that are also void. Employer possibly didn't change the contract template after relevant court decisions or they may try to bully the employee into desired behaviour by irrelevant text that looks binding) | |
| Apr 4, 2023 at 20:58 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @cbeleitesunhappywithSX: Most contracts I came across had a very explicit statement (always with the same wording, I think), saying that in the case of being ordered to work overtime, said overtime is compensated for by the fixed salary. | |
| Apr 4, 2023 at 19:28 | answer | added | cbeleites | timeline score: 1 | |
| Apr 4, 2023 at 19:01 | comment | added | cbeleites | @nvoigt: I believe the "not paid for overtime" is ambiguous in the sense that it's legal (even preferred) to compensate for overtime by free time rather than payment. So not paying is legal, but not compensating is not. | |
| Apr 4, 2023 at 18:33 | answer | added | Steve | timeline score: 1 | |
| Apr 4, 2023 at 10:11 | answer | added | WorkingHard_Guy | timeline score: 1 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 17:34 | comment | added | Daniel R. Collins | "I get a fixed annual salary..." -- You have a salary; you're salaried. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 12:14 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | Well, I guess that's fair, since the company on the other side is not required to pay you overtime, if they did not order it. So basically what is left at the end of the year is just bad time management and should not exceed a few hours. I know there's always people flexing with how bad they are at their job that they need to rack up enourmous overtime accounts... that is their problem, not yours. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 11:20 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @nvoigt: Interesting. Indeed, I have never encountered the situation anywhere that anyone was ordered to do overtime, so the case has not come up for discussion yet. I just know some of my managers and colleagues proactively reset their accumulated flextime balance to 0 at the end of each year, referring to the respective clause in the contract. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 11:11 | comment | added | OldPadawan | @nvoigt : that +/- confirms my doubts about that part in my first comment. Any chance you clarify this in your (future) answer? :) seems related -> working time DE and what is overtime? | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 10:02 | comment | added | Mookuh | What you describe is pretty common in Germany, and definitely 'salaried' since you get a fixed sum every month and you're not paid by the hour. Sidenote: In German, there's two seperate words for your compensation. "Gehalt" = salary, whereas "Lohn" implies an hourly compensation, with 'wage' being the correct translation. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 10:00 | answer | added | quarague | timeline score: 1 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 9:59 | answer | added | ThaRobster | timeline score: 5 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 8:12 | review | Close votes | |||
| Apr 9, 2023 at 3:05 | |||||
| Apr 3, 2023 at 7:56 | comment | added | nvoigt♦ | "for which (as per the contract) I receive no extra money": Please note that this illegal/void unless you make more than "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze (84.600 Euro im Westen, 81.000 Euro im Osten im Jahr 2022)". | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 7:40 | history | edited | O. R. Mapper | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 104 characters in body
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| Apr 3, 2023 at 7:27 | answer | added | Aeolun | timeline score: 0 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 7:00 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | ... ordered to do overtime by the company (or any previous employer, for that matter). | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:59 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @OldPadawan: "It means that you agree on a yearly salary, no matter how much you work, as long as the job is done." - that's not what it means in practice. In general, when my eight hours are more or less over, I stop working for the day - even if it means some tasks are not finished yet on time. Yes, I handle this flexibly, I sometimes do work up to the legally allowed 10 hours if there are urgent things to finish, they are small enough that they can realistically be finished soon, and it matches with my personal schedule. But, while the possibility exists in theory, I have never been ... | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:55 | comment | added | OldPadawan | I'm not sure about Germany, that's why I just give a broader (and less accurate maybe) "european" definition. But "when necessary for the company, I can be required to work overtime within legal limits, for which I receive no extra money" for an entry-level salaried job does seem a bit weird though | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:53 | comment | added | OldPadawan | 2/2. It means that you agree on a yearly salary, no matter how much you work, as long as the job is done. There are such legal contracts in European countries, where seniors/managers/executive are paid for the result of their work, which can't be achieved by working fixed hours, or even a certain amount of hours. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:52 | comment | added | O. R. Mapper | @OldPadawan: "Generally intended for higher management, seniors, executive and so on..." - but the payment model I describe is pretty much standard even for entry-level programmers here. I actually got the standard contract text that every employee at my company gets. And the contracts from the other positions I was offered back when I was applying did not look substantially diffrent, either. | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:48 | comment | added | OldPadawan | "A salaried employee receives fixed amount of money and it doesn't matter how many hours they work.": it does matter. From your description, you don't look like the average salaried one (that has overtime paid, with a max. of hours/week). Looks like you work on a daily basis: you're expected to work 40 h/week with no extra money, but to compensate extra hours, your yearly total is much more than average. Generally intended for higher management, seniors, executive and so on... In some countries in Europe, it's called 'salaried with daily cap' (don't know the exact translation). 1/2 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:47 | answer | added | TheDemonLord | timeline score: 4 | |
| Apr 3, 2023 at 6:31 | history | asked | O. R. Mapper | CC BY-SA 4.0 |