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I have recently been flagging the clutter noise comments under posts. Comments that add no value nor information whatsoever, like "this is great answer", "+1 great answer!", "updated, thanks", and so on. Pleasant and mostly seamless job, marking those clutter comments and helping to tidy up the site.

Until today, where I have found out that all of my pending flags were dismissed in bulk. Not one, not two, but all of those 11 flags of "no longer needed" variety have been, seemingly offhandedly, declined. This was not a problem before.

I flagged a post that hosted one of those comments and asked (implicitly: asked the whole moderator team) to investigate. I'd expect handling (and especially dismissing) flags regarding a specific moderator, by that same exact specific moderator, to be a faux pas since this is a clear conflict of interest. However, that message apparently got dismissed by the exact same person whose decisions I asked to be investigated, and thus I assume it got silently "swallowed" without reaching the intended destination:

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The moderator in question has not revealed their nickname in the feedback message, and chose to remain anonymous. Which on itself is okay with me. But then, it makes it impossible for me to know whether any potential moderator answers are from the same person, or another moderator, so please take that into account.

SE model is and has always been explicitly based on rating content by its own value, not on rating content based on external context nor assumption. For example, posts are to be voted on based on the value of their content, not based on the person who is the author, nor on the supposed posting patterns exhibited by the author. Likewise, I think that validity of flags should be decided based on whether they correctly mark specific undesired phenomenon (like a comment being superfluous clutter), not based on assumed intent nor supposed previously-exhibited patterns of the flag's author.

A comment either is of value or isn't, therefore a flag marking it as "no longer needed" either has a merit to it or it hasn't. Whether there is a supposed "pattern" of previous flags, should be irrelevant. The moderator in question has themself admitted that those comments were of minimal value, and the fact that they were aware of that and dismissed the flags regardless seems just plain wrong. Also, the fact of some of those comments being "years old" doesn't make them any more or less of a noise and clutter.

A suggestion of "badge-farming" also seems a bit out of place. AFAIK, the badges and the whole gamification model exists there for a reason and are one of the major reasons for SE's widespread success (gotta give kudos to SE for making boring and mundane tasks hooking). I cannot see how "badge-farming" is harmful or undesirable on its own -- even if it was the case (which, remember, is only an assumption), how much of a harm does it inflict upon the community for this or that user to have a mostly-meaningless, colored, tilted square added to their profile as a result? That suggestion seems to display quite a worrying mentality: allowing legitimate contributions to be dismissed/invalidated solely based on perceived "badge-farming" could theoretically, for example, give a green light for discrediting, dismissing, or maybe even deleting someone's stellar answers, since according to an arbiter that person would be clearly attempting to farm "Great Answer" badges!

I therefore ask the moderation team to investigate the issue -- this time, without having the specific moderator in question interfering, please. Thanks.

Update: I am reasonably satisfied with responses and the way this problem was solved. Green-accepted the answer, but that's not final and new answers are still welcome if someone wants to add something. Will always be happy to read any insight. The existing answer and comments in this thread were mostly helpful and informative so I wouldn't mind seeing more. Good way to learn stuff for me.

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    So how can we help you with? Investigate what? You got some flags declined, it's not a big deal or a life or death situation. We decline/accept flags all the time, as well as we prune comments all the time. Remember that mass-flagging is discouraged if you can instead post a single mod-flag. That being said, I suggest you focus your very appreciated and positive efforts on more recent posts, perhaps the newest ones. Those are where proper moderation and editing/cleaning helps the most, as it helps clarify and improve the Question earlier (rather than later... or years later...).
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 16:54
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    While I understand why the response to your flag left a bad taste, the moderator who declined your flags is the most appropriate person to explain why the flags were declined. As already mentioned, declined comment flags aren't a black mark on your record, and now you know flagging a lot of old comments is more disruptive than helpful. If you flag comments on active posts, "no longer needed" flags from other community members can remove the comments w/o mod intervention. If you flag comments on inactive posts, they'll probably age away unless a mod handles them.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 17:34
  • "all of those 11 flags of "no longer needed" variety have been, seemingly offhandedly, declined. " - maybe it's a hint to stop raising these flags.
    – Joe Strazzere
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 20:58
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    @DarkCygnus "It's not a big deal or a life or death situation" -- of course it is not. Believe me or not, my whole participation on this site is not really a big deal for me. It doesn't mean, however, that it should not be talked about. Moderators' decisions should be held to some objective standard. And actually, in practice, almost all complaints could theoretically be dismissed with "not big deal and not life or death situation". Getting shorted on money change by a cashier in supermarket is also "not a big deal", but would you feel happy about such a response from said cashier?
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 21:38
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    @DarkCygnus "Remember that mass-flagging is discouraged if you can instead post a single mod-flag" -- okay, from now on I will remember to do that whenever possible. But in this instance, each flag was on a separate post and it was impossible to do it like that. Also, my daily flag limit is just about, I am not sure, 16? It is not like I am even able to massively "disrupt" duties of moderators while having such a strict limit. It actually feels like I am being being dismissed for providing too much work for moderators, the work that they themselves voluntarily signed up [continued]
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 21:38
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    @DarkCygnus [continuation] to do. It feels unfair that flags had merit (the moderator even admitted that the comments were of little value), but got dismissed just because there has seemingly been too much of them. It feels like a cashier refusing to sell you bread, just because you want to buy whole 11 loaves, and the cashier remembers you being a massive bread buyer.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 21:38
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    @ColleenV Hey thanks for an actually helpful response. I am not sure about that black mark on my record, though. I have been reading a lot about flag weights and alike. Before this I had a proud and relatively clean record with only 1 declined. Now it's 12, which is over 10% of all, and feels unfair. Thanks again, your insight is appreciated.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 21:39
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    @JoeStrazzere Beautifully condescending response. Believe me, I am not that dense. I actually got that hint. Hence this question, because I feel this "hint" was not really warranted by the objective situation, but rather based on assumptions and a subjective, personal whim.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 21:39
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    I am a retired mod, and while it’s discouraging to have your stats messed up, it really doesn’t affect your account. It used to be a real pain for a mod to mark a comment flag “helpful” without deleting the comment, so there are plenty of folks out there with declined comment flags, myself included. Flags can be subjective, so there’s no shame in having disputed or declined flags.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Feb 23, 2022 at 22:53
  • @ColleenV Thanks for understanding and kind words. I believe it used to be a pain but actually is not anymore: nowadays all is needed for a moderator to mark flag as "helpful" without deleting the comment is to just edit the comment (could be a dummy edit so not to change the comment's content, this implicitly marks flag as helpful), or just delete and then undelete it afterwards with one more click. I am really grateful for your encouragement and explanation. And even though I still think it was unfair, your words made me less disheartened about it.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 0:48
  • @ColleenV However, if assumed patterns and perceived "badge-farming" was enough for the specific moderator to dismiss valid flags, then I would expect having made this thread to earn me a real grudge from this moderator. Let's hope not.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 0:50
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    @user132962 I read this thread and this is what I have to say: 1) I did not decline your flags, but even if I did, this post would not earn you any grudge. If a mod takes a grudge from this then I would question their mod capabilities... I can assure you no mod will hold a grudge for voicing your opinion in a polite way and in a Meta Post. 2) If it matters I also have about 10 flags declined from when I was not mod... it didn't harm me or my rep at all... in fact... I am now a mod :), and 3) yeah, please focus your commendable efforts and flags on recent posts so the positive impact is greater
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 3:26
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    @user132962 also, if the badge farming or other phrasing you perceived as not-so-cool or a bit negative, please do not take it personally and move on... I am sure it wasn't intended to harm or be rude, perhaps it just came out bluntly...I think the points you raise have merit, as id does read blunt or discouraging, but I also see that the flag and old-post hunting points also have some merit (mostly the fact that flagging an old post seldom has any benefits... people already read it, most of them even have accepted answers, etc... it's in new posts where the effort has more impact)
    – DarkCygnus Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 3:34
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    @ColleenV I doubt that same mod is always most appropriate person to explain declines because their position looks somewhat vulnerable. I checked similar discussions on "big" metas here and here and general idea seems to be when particular mod is challenged this is better handled by another mod, to avoid appearance of conflict of interest (granted, I saw cases when mods explained themselves but these were mostly like "sorry I made a mistake" which left no room to mis/interpret things as conflict of interest)
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 19:43
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    @gnat Hey thanks for phrasing that and linking those threads, it is exactly what I was trying to say in my post but phrased better.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 21:54

1 Answer 1

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However, that message apparently got dismissed by the exact same person whose decisions I asked to be investigated, and thus I assume it got silently "swallowed" without reaching the intended destination

Well, the intended destination for flags is any member of the mod team. And you weren't using flags for their intended purpose with this. You received an explanation for why your flags were declined which seems to me like a good response.

As you've worked out, the correct way to raise a perceived moderation issue is to take it to meta here, or to contact the Community Team from the Contact page.

The moderator in question has not revealed their nickname in the feedback message, and chose to remain anonymous. Which on itself is okay with me. But then, it makes it impossible for me to know whether any potential moderator answers are from the same person, or another moderator, so please take that into account

We rarely if ever identify ourselves during routine moderator actions and for good reason. And as you see, a flag is never the right way to raise what you see as moderator misconduct, which to be very clear this is not.

In my view both the declines on your initial flags and the decline on your follow-up flag were warranted and correct. The first to signal that you're overusing (potentially abusing) flags with no tangible benefit to the site. We have hundreds of thousands of obsolete comments in our site history. There's simply no real value in cleaning up age-old comments in bulk. By all means flag the occasional comment when you see it, especially on popular posts, but doing this in bulk feels at best like a waste of everyone's time.

The second flag was rightly declined because that's not what post flags are for. And you received the explanation you asked for.

I appreciate that you raised this here and can understand why you might feel singled out! That's certainly never our goal. But I also don't think that's what happened here and I stand by the way these flags were handled.

When we decline a flag that's intended to give feedback to the user that they should check their flagging behaviour. We don't want to encourage you to continue to flag obsolete comments, so declining makes sense. Our standard Stack Exchange tools don't have a convenient way to decline and delete comments unfortunately, though we sometimes do approach it like that.

In case you still have concerns about the way this was handled, I recommend that you reach out to the Community Team via the Contact page.

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    Wait, how does a user ask the mod team for an explanation of why their flags were declined without raising a flag? What exactly is a mod flag for if not to contact the mod team about an issue? I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask for a different moderator to look at the issue before escalating to the CM team if someone feels that something was handled unfairly. I understand that it would have been better if no-one had been accused of unfairness, but the mod admitted the problem with the flags was unwritten policy the user has no way of knowing without someone explaining it to them.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 11:51
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    Declining the flags may have been warranted and correct, but the communication with your community member who has apparently only been here for 9 days needs some improvement.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 11:53
  • Hey thanks for time and effort to write your answer. It clears things a bit. But still, I don't think I was overusing or abusing the flags. I'd imagine overuse or abuse to be intentional flagging behavior that makes absolutely no sense and is clearly aimed to cause chaos, confusion and disruption (like deliberately and randomly flagging normal and polite comments as "harassment", using custom-message-flags to send gibberish text to moderators, targeting flags against one specific person that I was previously in conflict with, etc.). That is not what I was doing. I feel like I {continued}
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 14:11
  • am in the similar situation as this thread shows. However, the point about no value of cleaning old comments on old posts which hardly anybody visits anymore makes sense. I did not think about it like this. I just wish I had some way of receiving that information in the interface, because there is no way I could have figured it out myself -- all information I initially had was that they were all declined, nothing more. I felt like I was getting feedback of "good job, good job, good job..." then suddenly "boom, bad job!" with {continued}
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 14:12
  • no apparent reason whatsoever and it was extremely confusing. I guess moderators can add response to post flags, but they cannot for comment ones? That would explain things a bit. Thanks again for response.
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 14:12
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    @ColleenV You're right, a fair point. I was mainly talking about the theoretical scenario where a user disagrees with a mod action and wants to challenge it. Because odds are good the same mod might see the flag, it's not a good way to raise moderation issues. That's what meta or the Community Team is for. But if it's to ask for clarification like this, you're right that there's not really much of an alternative. That's sadly just a limitation of the tooling SE offers: there simply is no "contact the mod team" option apart from flagging.
    – Lilienthal Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 14:55
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    The second flag probably should have been marked helpful instead. But I'm not sure the moderator response would have ever been pushed to the user. That response was clear for regulars but as you point out @user132962 is new to the site and the network which I didn't realise. A mod message from our end would perhaps have been more useful. The feedback field for flags is very short and often means we need to be more curt than we'd like to be.
    – Lilienthal Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 14:58
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    @user132962 On behalf of the mod team I'd like to apologise for your experience here. I think it's clear you were using the tools the site gave you in good faith. I think we mistakenly assumed someone flagging this kind of volume would be a regular coming from the network who is more familiar with site norms and when (not) to flag. If you have any feedback on the help pages and documentation related to flagging feel free to add it to your post or in a message to the Community Team. And thank you for raising this. I hope it hasn't soured you on the site. :)
    – Lilienthal Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 15:02
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    @user132962 As the mod who declined the flags and wrote the response I just want to echo Lilienthal's message above - they've summed up my thinking at the time. I also want to apologize personally for coming off as rude in my flag response, the bluntness was a case of running into the character limit as I had to trim it to fit (even so my response literally used the entire allowance!) rather than any ill-intent.
    – motosubatsu Mod
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 16:04
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    @Lilienthal Apology accepted, thanks for responses, I actually expected to be eaten alive for making this thread, then this a pleasant surprise!
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 21:19
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    @motosubatsu Hey apology accepted and I appreciate you revealed that it was you, and no worries because I did not even get the impression that your flag response was rude in the first place, it was just confusing and made no sense to me back then. And also I was not offended by "badge-farming", I just did not understand why it was necessarily a bad thing. Hey I know what you mean with trimming to fit character limit as I also spent quite some time scratching my head trying to figure out how to fit my own flag message!
    – user132962
    Commented Feb 24, 2022 at 21:27
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    @user132962 The mods here are great and will do anything they can to correct a misunderstanding or to explain an issue. Welcome to the workplace, in any event stick around and learn the flow a bit more. Its a nice place when you get used to it
    – Old_Lamplighter
    Commented Mar 14, 2022 at 17:42

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