Two contradictory mechanics for XP discount for Guild instruction in Arcanoi

Question

The 20th Anniversary edition of Wraith: the Oblivion has two different ways that the XP cost for learning arcanoi might be reduced, and these seem to conflict when it comes to their mechanics.

The first, Guild instruction, is described on p. 147-148:

Guild instruction in common arts is available to any wraith with Status in the appropriate Guild. [...] For any common art, Guild instruction takes one consecutive day per dot of the art’s rating, and the art’s experience point cost is reduced to current rating x2 experience (or a flat 5 experience for a new Arcanos).

For guild instruction in initiate arts,

the same experience-point cost reduction applies.

The second is based on having relevant backgrounds, and is described in the section on mastering arcanoi on p. 303:

Having a Mentor versed in the relevant Arcanos is useful, however, as is a membership in the appropriate Guild [emph. added]. If conditions permit, the player may roll the relevant Background rating when trying to learn a new Arcanos (difficulty 6). Each success reduces the experience-point cost of the Arcanos by one, to a minimum of one.

A wraith may continue working with teachers to attempt to reduce the cost of subsequent levels of an Arcanos, [...]

If the level of the desired Arcanos exceeds the relevant background rating:

Regardless of the source of the expertise, the relevant Background-rating roll to reduce the cost of higher-level Arcanos purchases is made against difficulty 8. This roll cannot reduce the cost below half the regular amount (rounded up), and Willpower cannot be spent on this roll.

The use of the "Mentor" background is clearly no conflict.

As I understand things, guild membership is represented by the "Status" background, which is where the rules conflict. A Guild Status would seem to qualify a character for both discounts, yet the rules do no specify which discount would apply, or whether both would (though stacking them seems wrong).

Are the rules contradictory, is there a resolution in the rulebook, or am I misunderstanding the rules?

Mitigating Factors

Speaking practically, Guild Instruction will generally give a better discount, so would probably be used over the Background discount. The only scenario in which the BG discount might be better is for learning low-level Arcanoi when a character has high Status, but even then the difference is so small that it's scarcely worth considering a BG discount.

For example, with a Status of 3, I calculate a 78.4% chance that the BG discount is at least as good as the Guild Instruction discount for a level 2 art, but only 35.2% of being better (rolling 2 or 3 successes for a discount of 2, compared to the 1 XP discount for Guild Instruction). A Status of 4 gives you an 87.04% chance of a discount of at least 1, and a 52.48% chance of a discount of at least 2, beating Guild Instruction for a level 2 art and matching for a level 3 art. For higher level arts, a BG roll is less likely to give a better discount to the point that it's not worth it.

Consequently, I'd expect the BG discount to only be used if a character didn't have Status in the Guild. However, I'm looking for a resolution within the rules themselves, which this analysis is not.

Answer 1

There's no contradiction

Mastering Arcanoi is speaking first in overall terms: both Mentor and Guild membership reduce the price. But they do so differently.

• Trading Archanoi can give you a reduction (p.147)
• The Guild gives a flat reduction outright (p.147)
• Backgrounds can make acquiring new Archanoi cheaper (p.303)

Source of confusion

At this point, things get wonky: Membership in a guild can be shown by the status background, and it opens a can of worms with multiple solutions:

• Can you roll Status to get additional reduction beyond the guild membership reduction?
• Do you get only one of the two reductions from the same background and have to choose?
• Can you combine it with Mentor and get both from two different backgrounds?

Some of this can be clearly solved:

OPTIONAL RULE: TRADING ARCANOI

If the Storyteller thinks it makes for a more interesting tale, characters can learn Arcanoi from one another, or from Storyteller characters, on a direct basis. A lesson in an art requires one consecutive day per dot of the art’s rating. In addition, the student’s player spends 1 Willpower per day and the teacher’s player makes a single Charisma + Leadership roll (difficulty 6 for a common art, 8 for an initiate art). With success, the student’s experience cost for the art is reduced by the teacher’s successes, to a minimum of one experience. This doesn’t stack with the rules for Guild instruction ^p.147

So yea, you can't combine Mentor and Guild. But can you combine Guild and Background from the same source?

Well, first of all, you can't use it whenever you want, as the 'roll a background' is limited to acquiring a new archanoi. So as a result, you can only gain at best 4 additional discount to the Guild. You can't get this special discount from a background on an arcanoi you already possess:

If conditions permit, the player may roll the relevant Background rating when trying to learn a new Arcanos (difficulty 6). Each success reduces the experience-point cost of the Arcanos by one, to a minimum of one. ^p.303

This pretty much depicts the ability to find anyone that can show the basics of an archanoi to the trainee. Nothing special, just something basic. Is that in addition or replacement of the Guild reduction? It's not listed, so you get into ST fiat land.

The next paragraph is for extended training, which means finding a training opportunity that makes it easier is harder. Again, combinability is not listed, so again ST Fiat.

Welcome to ST Fiat Land!

Yes, you just entered the wonderful world of Storyteller fiat. You need to ask your Storyteller how to interpret that passage.

If I was the GM...

My personal ruling, if afked, based on decades of playing and GMming in WoD games would be this:

• You do not gain the Guild bonus if you study on your own
• You can use either Self Study, Guild or Trading Archanoi.
• You can not roll background for a reduction when using Trading Achanoi.
• You can gain the small reduction of experience cost from rolling a background always when not using Trading Archanoi, even when Self Studying.
• You can only roll a background if you can explain how you use your background - and it is fitting. "I ask my Mentor to show me..." would not necessarily work, as that would be asking a specific STC to for Trading Archanoi, while "I use my Status to find a teacher for ... in my Guild" could work either to find a Trading Archanoi partner or just the general discount at your choice. Likewise, "I use my Notoriety to attract test subjects for ..." might also work for Self Study.