Were there cross-compiler online services for the public?

Question

Compiling takes computing power, and to a lesser extent, storage and memory. Back in the 70s and 80s personal computers weren't powerful enough to compile codes in high-level languages or if capable took a huge amount of time. Thus small, simple compilers sometimes were often more welcomed than sophisticated ones generating optimized binaries. Some companies had to install minis for their programmers instead of compiling on the targeted machines, and bootstrapping has always been an achievement for a new language and its compilers such as small-c, which first was refined on Unix, then approached part by part to bootstrapping.

Employers and students sent their cards and tapes to Batch processing mainframes to compile. People have cross-compiled since the 50s. Were there any cross-compiling services for the public instead of internal users, free or subscribed, that one could connect to via teletype, telex or modem, or that received letters and packages, so that codes written, checked and interpreted locally could be compiled and debugged on their much more powerful machine?

Answer 1

I too doubt the premise of the question, on several counts:

The notion of using a teletype for access to remote compiling services seems ill-advised, since punching the object module on paper tape (the only option on a teletype) would take hours.

Assuming you'd actually use the target computer to receive the object code (thus writing it to disk, not paper tape), the economics would seem to be against you. You'd need transmit time plus wait time (for your slot) plus compilation time plus receive time to be significantly less than local compilation time.

Bureau services were also not cheap. You could likely buy a few more fast micros for the annual bureau fees.

So my answer to the posed question is "no".

With respect to Employers and students sent their cards and tapes to Batch processing mainframes to compile. As a student - no we didn't. We sent our programs to be run. The fact that they had to be compiled before running was incidental. The nature of student programming tended to be 'after one successful run we are done with it', so keeping object code, even if possible, had little point.

Answer 2

TL;DR: Yes,

such services existed.

But

usage was quite limited in time and audience.

Those that existed may be rightfully considered exotic fringe cases for very special situations.

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Back in the 70s and 80s

Now, that covers too wide a range of applications and use cases for a coherent answer.

personal computers weren't powerful enough to compile codes in high-level languages or if capable took huge amount of time.

Is that so? A 1 MHz 6502 can assemble its own BASIC in a few minutes, so nothing that can't be waited for. Once there were personal computers, compilation happened there - after all, the main advantage of personal computers were their immediate availability.

Some companies had to install minis for their programmers instead of compiling on the targeted machines,

This was rather for two facts:

• Unified development environment, and more often than not
• Target machines that had no OS or programming environment.

Employers and students sent their cards and tapes to Batch processing mainframes to compile.

Not really. Students usually did jobs on their institute's machines, not on some different one. Likewise, at the time real cards were still a thing in programming; there were no micros and not much cross development.

Usually the only time programming happened with cross-compilers on large remote systems was when new CPUs were introduced and the manufacturer did not have any development system already at hand.

So Intel for example offered cross assemblers for 4004 and 8008 before their ISIS systems became available. After that, development was intended to happen on here. Likewise when new CPUs, like 8048 or 8086 became available, Intel offered software packages to compile for these new models - often in combination with hardware adaptors, programmers and ICE probes.

Zilog in contrast just used Intel systems in the beginning before their own development systems were ready - the Z80 is just an extended 8080, isn't it? :))

Apart from that, cross compiling was only a thing for game systems, as these did not really provide a way to develop on target. An exception might be development for similar systems, like developing on a PET for VIC20.

Multi-platform game development was essentially the only area where cross-compilation was a big issue - and here it was always an internal one. Not just to secure the game from leaking, but, as mentioned, to provide a single development environment for all platforms.

Were there any cross-compiling services for the public instead of internal users, free or subscribed,

All of that does of course rely on your definition of "the public". In any case these services were rather limited and only viable for a sort time. A good example might be the (cross) assembler MOS offered in the beginning to their customers using a GE-based dial-in service. As so often when it's about 6502 material, Hans Otten has the documentation, here the 650X Cross Assembler Manual.

Noteworthy, and unlike in the question assumed, that assembler was not comfortable at all. It was a very primitive linear beast. This makes sense, considering that the step from "no assembler" to "some assembler" is much more supportive than "some assembler" to "comfortable assembler".

The dial-in solution was soon superseded with MOS' Resident Assembler developed for the MDT650 - the history of MOS Assemblers can be followed on Michael Steil's Pagetable.

Answer 3

The main ambiguity here for me is "the public".

I have a microprocessor course book of 1978 (A.J. Dirksen's "Microprocessors"). A part of the book presents some ways of developing:

• Time sharing
• Using an in-house system (from PDP-11 to IBM 370)
• Using a development system

Rodnay Zaks (""Programming the Z80, possibly also in "From chips to systems") adds the single board computer and the home computer (but he dismisses the software support of home computers).

Both authors speak about rented terminals, but none of them talks about the data communication cost. However, just the fact that it is mentioned in a US book and a European book is enough proof that such services did exist.

But the rent of time and a terminal was rather high. Dirksen talks about 100 NLG to 500 NLG, which translates into current prices from 150 EUR to 750 EUR, per hour. So, de facto not really accessible for "the public", only for companies which could justify the costs.

Answer 4

To give you some idea of how things worked back then: In 1973, a kid who lived not far from where I do now sent a letter to a ’zine called The People’s Computer Company, which they printed on page 5 of their November issue, with a handwritten note, “Somebody help him out!”

Dear Sir(s),

I have recently moved from Corvallis, Oregon to Bellevue, Washington. In Corvallis I had access to a CDC 3300 and a Digital PDP 12. A friend of mine gave me some old copies of your newspaper.

I have not had any luck in finding a computer to use. So I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me a list containing the names & addresses (and possibly more information) of your subscribers in the Seattle, Bellevue area, to aid me in my “search”, Any and all efforts will be appreciated!

Thank you!

A Friendly Computer Freak,
Stuart A . Celarier
Age 13, Grade 8

And, in 1973, they published his full home address. Corvallis is a college town, the home of Oregon State University, which is presumably where he got access to computers.

Answer 5

Depending on your definition of "public", Motorola provided development systems on your timesharing facility for companies who'd taken their training course on the 6800 family. This ad from Electronics, April 1976:

(Image source: Motorola M6800 Training ad April 1976 - File:Motorola M6800 Training ad April 1976.jpg - Wikimedia Commons)