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On the flat earth website, they prove that the gravitational pull of an infinite flat earth is finite. Is their proof correct?. I'm not that good at physics and can't determine if they're correct myself. For a school thing. https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/infinite-flat-earth-mathematics

Additional question: They prove that g = 2piG*p, where p is the density. Density is just m/A, and for an infinite flat sheet, mass and area is infinite right? And infinity divided by infinity is undefined, right? Which makes their answer useless. Might be a dumb question.

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    $\begingroup$ There is in the Feynman Lectures a discussion of the case of the amount of gravity exerted by an infinitely large slab (Volume I, Chapter 13, Section 4) The amount of gravitational acceleration is the same everywhere. Feynman explains: when you are close to the slab most of the slab is exerting gravitational pull at a very unfavorable angle. The slab is infinite, but the gravitational pull is determined mostly by the thickness of the slab. The amount of pull is finite, and at every height above the slab the same. $\endgroup$
    – Cleonis
    Commented Jan 9 at 16:39
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    $\begingroup$ "On the flat earth website, they prove that the gravitational pull of an infinite flat earth is finite. Is their proof correct?" You didn't link their website, so we can't see the details of their proof. Are they assuming the earth is a infinite flat slab, an infinite thin sheet (seems impossible) or something else? How thick do they think the slab is? Is it infinitely thick? If so, the gravitation field would be infinite, since the force is proportional to the thickness. If not... what do they think is on the other side of the slab? $\endgroup$
    – hft
    Commented Jan 9 at 17:15
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    $\begingroup$ their proof is meaningless. it's like saying the earth is flat because penguins live in antarctica. $\endgroup$ Commented Jan 9 at 18:12
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    $\begingroup$ Density can be well defined for infinite objects (indeed, it is usually one of the few things that is well defined). The average density is reached through taking the limit of ever larger areas: that converges to something finite. $\endgroup$ Commented Jan 10 at 16:50
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    $\begingroup$ Here's a question about the equivalent situation of an infinite sheet with a uniform electrostatic field: physics.stackexchange.com/q/747402/123208 $\endgroup$
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Jan 10 at 17:13

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The proof, using Gauss' theorem, is valid. An infinite sheet of charge or gravitating matter produces a constant vertical field on each side. This is a standard example in textbooks. The case of Earth gravity requires a few thousand km of matter in a slab to produce 9.8 m/s$^2$.

That somebody uses a theorem correctly does not mean their conclusion is correct. Typically the problem is the discrepancy between reality and the model used to model it. In the case of Earth, the problem is that gravity actually does decline with altitude (which which can be directly measured) - a pretty strong sign that this sheet or slab is not a great model of the shape of Earth.

How can one speak of an average surface density of an infinite plane or slab? The answer is that it is defined as the mass divided by area as one lets the area approach infinity: while both factors diverge, their ratio approaches a finite value (which, unless you have a pathological density distribution, is independent of how you approach the limit).

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It is interesting that that is something that they prove. In the end this proof doesn’t help their case because it assumes the validity of Newtonian gravity, which opens them up to lots of experimental falsification.

It is possible to solve for the gravity from an infinite flat plane of mass. Without commenting on their proof, the result is that the gravitational field is finite and uniform.

The gravitational field from a spherical mass is also finite, but it is not uniform.

So, the fact that it is finite doesn’t support one model over the other. They both predict finite gravity at the surface of the earth. To support one model over the other we must look to the ways that the models disagree. In this case, regarding uniformity.

The non-uniformity of Earth’s gravitational field is directly measurable by gravimeters near the Earth’s surface. There is a gradient in the vertical direction of $-3.1\mathrm{\ \mu s^{-2}}$. In other words, for every $1\mathrm{\ m}$ you go up the acceleration of gravity goes down by $3.1 \mathrm{\ \mu m/s^2}$. This is consistent with a round earth and inconsistent with a flat earth.

The non-uniformity of the gravitational field is also abundantly evident in tides. Also, there are no orbits in a uniform gravitational field, instead the moon, satellites, planets, sun, and stars would all fall in a parabola to crash onto the infinite flat earth. Since elliptical orbits are observed the uniformity of the gravitational field is again refuted.

So in accepting Newtonian gravity in this proof they have opened themselves to a bunch of clear experimental refutation. Of course, when pressed on this topic they will simply discard Newtonian gravity. Which is why it is surprising that they would bother with the proof based on Newtonian gravity in the first place.

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Additional question: They prove that g = 2piG*p, where p is the density. Density is just m/A,

No, this is not what they prove, ultimately. The end result, from the blog that you linked, is: $$ g=2\pi G\rho d\;, $$ where $d$ is the thickness of the infinite slab. The blogger is not considering an infinite thin sheet, the blogger is considering an infinite thick slab. But that does not make the blogger any less moronic.

and for an infinite flat sheet, mass and area is infinite right?

The total mass of a uniformly dense, infinitely large object is infinite. But this does not mean the density is undefined. The fact that an infinitely large object has infinite mass does not mean that the density is undefined.

N.B., it is already absurd that the linked blog post assumes the earth is an infinite flat slab. The fact that the mass is also infinite does not make the hypothesis any more or less absurd.

And infinity divided by infinity is undefined, right? Which makes their answer useless.

This is not why their answer is useless. Their answer is useless because the earth is not flat. An infinite sheet or an infinite slab of uniform finite density both have infinite area and infinite mass, but that is beside the point.

Anyways, as seen on the final section of the linked blog page, the blogger considers the earth to be an infinite slab of material (of uniform finite density $\rho$) and the author arrives at the following expression (which is correct assuming the earth is an infinite slab, which is it not): $$ g=2\pi G\rho d\;, $$ where $d$ is the thickness of the slab.

The blogger then goes on to make the hilarious statement: "This evaluates to around 4195.43 kilometers deep, thus showing false my early hypothesis of 9000 km deep."

Yeah, the blogger's earlier hypothesis is false. And guess what, the blogger's current hypothesis is also false.

Also, what does this blogger think is on the other side of the slab?

Also, what does this blogger think happens if you travel east continuously, and how do they explain that you return to the same location eventually?

Also, what does this blogger think the shape of the sun is? Does this fool think that the sun is a flat disk? Um... no... the only way a shape that rotates always appears to be circular is if it is a sphere... just like the earth.

Please stop giving these fools attention.

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I started writing this before the accepted answer was posted, and am posting it anyway for the sake of completeness.


I will do my best to provide a comprehensive answer for the two questions which were asked here. I will not be addressing the shape of the earth, the utility (or lack thereof) of the proposed model, or any broader implications.


Question 1: Is the "proof" provided in the linked blog post valid?

Difficult to say. It's unclear exactly what the author is assuming and what they intend to "prove." If I were really invested in it, I would contact the author and ask for clarification. I am not that invested, however, so I'm going to provide my best guess as to what I think the author is trying to say using the interpretation which makes the post "as right as possible."

Premises:

  1. All mass in the universe is distributed uniformly through a region of space bounded by two parallel planes separated by a distance $d$. One of these planes is the surface of the earth, which is assumed flat and infinite in area.

  2. Gravitation is dictated by Gauss's law for gravity. The law is given by the equation:

$${\subset\!\supset}\llap\iint_{\partial\Omega}\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=-4\pi Gm\qquad m=\iiint_\Omega\rho\ dV,$$

where $\Omega$ is a region bounded by a closed surface $\partial\Omega$, $\mathbf g$ is the gravitational acceleration at a point, $\mathbf n$ is the [outward-facing] unit normal vector at a point on $\partial\Omega$, $m$ is the mass within $\Omega$, and $\rho$ is the density at a point. The second equation states that the mass within a three dimensional region is the integral of the density over that region. When this density is the same everywhere, this is equalent to $m=\rho V$, where $V$ is the volume of $\Omega$.

[Note: The author makes a minor mistake in confusing volume density (the standard notion of "density" in units of mass per unit volume) with area density, but this is easily corrected.]

Neither premise is in agreement with observation.

The first implies, among other things, that the sun, moon, and stars all have negligible masses and so do not exhibit any significant gravitational interaction. The second implies, among other things, the reality of instantaneous communication. However, the validity of the premises do not affect the validity of the conditional assertion which I have decided the author is arguing.

Conclusion:

If the premises hold, then the gravitational acceleration at any point above the surface of the earth is $\mathbf g=(0,0,-g)\ \text m\cdot \text s^{-2}$ - that is, $g\ \text m\cdot \text s^{-2}$ perpendicular to and in the direction of the surface of the earth - where $g$ is a constant, finite value.

Argument:

For the sake of computation, let's pick some point on the surface of the infinite flat earth (henceforth "earth") to call the origin, and establish Euclidean coordinates $(x,y,z)$, with $x$ and $y$ spanning the surface of the earth and $z$ perpendicular to it. The density distribution $\rho$, is then given by

$$\rho(x,y,z)=\begin{cases}\bar\rho&-d\le z\le0\\0&\text{otherwise}\end{cases}$$

where $\bar\rho\approx 5.51\ \text g\cdot\text{cm}^{-3}$ is the average density of the earth and $d$ (value unknown) is its "depth." It should be noted that the assumption of uniform density on its own is fairly reasonable - it's a good enough approximation for many practical calculations in real life space science.

Now we have to correct a mistake. The author writes that the mass contained within a given region is equal to the density (units of mass per unit volume) multiplied by the area of that region. This is false. Since we are working in three dimensions, the product of density with area is a linear density, not mass. Instead, we have the mass given by the second equation in our second assumption, which leads to

$$m=\iiint_\Omega\rho\ dV=\iiint_{\Omega_0} 0\ dV+\iiint_{\Omega_{\bar\rho}}\bar \rho\ dV=\bar\rho V_{\bar\rho},$$

where $\Omega_0$ is the portion of $\Omega$ where the density is $0$, $\Omega_{\bar\rho}$ is the portion $\Omega$ where the density is $\bar\rho$, and $V_{\bar\rho}$ is the volume of that portion.

However, because the density within the earth is is assumed constant in every direction, we can replace the density with area density $\rho_A(x,y)=\bar\rho$ in our calculations. This kind of approximation - where we exploit some symmetry to "compress" everything into a two dimensional surface - is commonly used in describing the mechanics of sufficiently thin objects. Since the thickness of the earth relative to its presumed surface area is negligible, this is a reasonable simplification. Following this,

$$m=\iiint_\Omega \rho\ dV=\iint_{\pi_{xy}\Omega}\rho_A\ dA=\rho_A A$$

where $\pi_{xy}\Omega$ is the projection of $\Omega$ to the $xy$-plane. Note that in order for this to work, we have to choose $\Omega$ so that the cross sections parallel to the $xy$-plane are identical at every height.

Now consider the case where $\Omega$ is a [right circular] cylinder of radius $r$, whose axis passes through the origin at a right angle, of sufficient height and positioned so that the two circular faces are located above and below the upper and lower planes, respectively. Returning to Gauss's law, we have

$${\subset\!\supset}\llap\iint_{\partial\Omega}\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=-4\pi G\rho_AA,$$

where $A$ is the area of the projection of $\Omega$ to the $xy$-plane.

To compute the surface integral, we'll partition $\Omega$ into three parts - the upper circular face $U$, the lower circular face $L$, and the central "tube" which we'll call $C$.

$${\subset\!\supset}\llap\iint_{\partial\Omega}\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=\iint_U\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA+\iint_L\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA+\iint_C\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA$$

While we don't know the value of $\mathbf g$ just yet, we know that the acceleration in any direction parallel to the plane is countebalanced by that in the opposite direction. This tells us 1. that $\mathbf g=(0,0,g^*)$ for some (possibly variable) $g^*$, at every point, 2. that the value of the third integral in the above equation is zero. Since the mass is distributed symmetrically to either side of the plane $z=-d/2$, we also know that the value of $\mathbf g$ at a given distance above the upper surface of the earth is the reflection of its value at the same distance below the lower surface along the $z$ direction. Since the unit normals of $U$ and $L$ are constant and the mass contained within $\Omega$ is independent of the height of $\Omega$, we can infer that $\lvert g^*\rvert=g$, for some constant value $g$, at all points outside of the earth. Thus,

$$\mathbf g(x,y,z)=\begin{cases}(0,0,\pm g)&z>0\\?&-d\le z\le 0\\(0,0,\mp g)&z<-d\end{cases}.$$

The $?$ is there because we neither know nor care what happens inside the earth. The $\pm$ is because we still don't know the direction of $\mathbf g$, only that it is parallel to the $z$-axis and flips when we cross the midplane. This doesn't actually matter, since the sign of $g$ is a matter of convention and we can always change it later. In any case,

$$\iint_U\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=\iint_L\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=\pm g A,$$

so

$${\subset\!\supset}\llap\iint_{\partial\Omega}\mathbf g\cdot\mathbf n\ dA=\pm2gA,$$

where $A$ is again the area of $\Omega$ projected to the $xy$-plane (equivalently, it is the area of $U$ or $L$.) Altogether this gets us

$$\pm 2gA=-4\pi G\rho_AA.$$

Solving for $\pm g$, we have $\pm g=-2\pi G\rho_A$. The gravitational constant and area density are conventionally positive, making the right-hand side of the equation negative. Adopting the sign convention of the author, we then have

$$g=2\pi G\rho_A.$$

This suffices to show that, given our premises, the gravitational acceleration at any point above or below the upper or lower surface of the earth, respectively, is indeed finite.

Note: For subsequent calculations, the author uses $\rho_A=\rho d$. This is a necessary correction if we want to pretend that the model is even plausible - any other means of determining the area density of the presumed infinite flat earth will reveal either the finite extent, significantly variable gravitation, asymmetric density, or nonplanar surface of the earth if attempted.

Answer 1: Ignoring the confusion of volume and area density, yes, the "proof" is valid - the premises entail the conclusion. However, this is predicated on the interpretation of the argument as a hypothetical, we cannot conclude that the premises or the conclusion are true.

Answer 1.5: It is unclear whether the author intends to evidence the possibility - in the absence of evidence to the contrary - of an infinite flat earth, or the agreement of the proposed model with the stated numerical values. Independently of its validity, the proof cannot serve as evidence for the latter, because our calculations only predict the relation between $g$, $d$, and $\bar\rho$, not their values.

The author uses the experimental values of $g$ and $\bar\rho$ to calculate the value of $d$. In order to check that this value agrees with observation, we need to measure $d$ as well. This is something that we can actually do, right now (and without directly contradicting the premises), using seismology. I desperately hope that someone does, and that, under the given assumptions, it comes out to $d\approx4195\ \text{km}$, because that would would be an absolutely hilarious coincidence.

Question 2: How is the [area] density of an infinite sheet defined?

The definition of area density (henceforth "density") at a point is given by its relation to mass. Specifically, given a region $\Omega$ bounded by a closed curve $\partial\Omega$,

$$m=\iint_\Omega\rho\ dA,$$

where $m$ is the mass contained in $\Omega$. If $A$ is the area of $\Omega$, then $\bar\rho=m/A$ gives the average density within $\Omega$. If the density is the same at every point in $\Omega$, then $\rho=\bar\rho$ at every point. You are correct that we cannot determine the average density of an infinite surface from its mass and area directly. However, if we assume that the density is constant, then the mass contained within any region divided by the area of that region will be the same as the density at every point on the surface. In the linked post, the author assumes that density is constant, so the value of $\rho$ could, in principle, be determined by measuring the mass contained within any finite chunk.

If the density is not constant at every point, then we would find it by looking at smaller and smaller regions. Let $\Omega_1,\Omega_2,\Omega_3,\ldots$ be a sequence of regions which all share a point $p$, such that $\Omega_n$ is contained within $\Omega_m$ wherever $m<n$, and $\lim_{n\to\infty} A_n=0$, where $A_n$ is the area of $\Omega_n$. Then the density at $p$ is $\rho=\lim_{n\to\infty}m_n/A_n$, where $m_n$ is the mass inside of $\Omega_n$. Physically, you can think of this as taking a big sheet of aluminum, weighing it and measuring its area, then removing a section from the center and repeating the process with that, until we're left with something so small we can't measure it. We extrapolate the density at the center of the original sheet from the sequence of densities we get by doing this.

As for the average density of an infinite surface, we get this by going in the opposite direction, looking at bigger and bigger regions. Let $\Omega_n$ be a sequence of regions such that $\Omega_m$ is contained inside of $\Omega_n$ whenever $m<n$, and the union of all regions covers the entire surface. Then $\bar\rho=\lim_{n\to\infty} m_n/A_n$, where $m_n$ and $A_n$ are again the mass and area, respectively, contained in $\Omega_n$.

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If you imagined an infinite flat earth the gravitational pull would be proportional to the depth of the slab, the center of mass would be dependent on where you are and would be directly underneath you a very small amount above halfway through the slab. You could have a slab where you get the exact gravitational acceleration as we have one earth however as people have said in the comments this proves absolutely nothing. In an infinite flat earth the ground wouldn't slowly crumple in on itself (which I suspect is why they said infinite, but the flat earth theory falls apart when you consider the earth as a finite disc since gravity would slowly cause everything to pull towards a center of gravity, the very center of the plate, and two interesting things would happen A: everything would get pull towards the center of the disc (imagine the whole world would be getting crumpled up as it gets pulled towards some random spot in Florida). B: The world would start to collapse into a spherical shape very quickly especially near the center of gravity.

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