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When trying to arrive to Euler-Lagrange equation, Susskind does terrific job but I have one problem. Let's consider motion in only $x$ direction with respect to time.

$$x(t) = \hat x(t) + \epsilon f(t)$$ (variation where $\hat x(t)$ is the true trajectory and x(t) the varied one)

$$\frac {dx}{d\epsilon} = f(t)$$

Then we differentiate action with respect to $\epsilon$ to see how action changes when $\epsilon$ changes:

$$\frac{dS}{d\epsilon} = \int \frac{\partial L}{\partial x} \frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon}$$ (note that i didn't fully write the second part for $\dot x$ but it should be included.

I wonder now, why did he bring partial derivative for $L$ in $\frac{dS}{d\epsilon}$ but not for $\frac{dx}{d\epsilon}$.

I understand that he does chain rule for $L$ as it's a function of $x$ which is function of $t$, but i never knew that doing chain rule transforms derivative notation from full to partial. would appreciate some help.

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    $\begingroup$ Good question and it is crucial that you understand its answer if you want to understand Lagrangian mechanics! I hope someone with time will write you an answer. If they do not then I will come back and do it when I have time. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 17:42
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    $\begingroup$ Link to Susskind's terrific job? Which page/minute? $\endgroup$
    – Qmechanic
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 19:50

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The Lagrangian is a function of $x$ and $\dot{x}$: $$L = L(x, \dot{x})$$ In Lagrangian mechanics, you have to think of position and velocity as independent variables. Forget that one is the derivative of the other and simply think of them in the same way you think of the $x$ and $y$ coordinates in an ordinary coordinate system.

When you do a transformation $$x(t) = \hat{x}(t) + \epsilon f(t),$$ then both $x$ and $\dot{x}$ will depend on $\epsilon$: $$L(x(\epsilon) , \dot{x}(\epsilon))$$ Now, you want to know the change of the Lagrangian $dL$ when you change $\epsilon$ by a little amount $d\epsilon$. This change $d\epsilon$ will cause a small change in $x$ given by $$dx = \frac{\partial{x}}{\partial{\epsilon}} d\epsilon.$$ Why do we use a partial derivative here? Because in general, $x$ might not only depend on $\epsilon$. In fact, in our example, we know that $x$ also depends on time. But we only want to know what happens to $x$ when we change $\epsilon$ a little bit, keeping everything else fixed. This is exactly what the partial derivative is designed to do. Now, similarly, the change in $\dot{x}$ will be $$d\dot{x} = \frac{\partial \dot{x}}{\partial\epsilon} d\epsilon.$$ Now, how does $L$ change when we change both $x$ and $\dot{x}$ by the amount we just calculated? We simply add up the change caused by $dx$ and the change caused by $d\dot{x}$ (Again, think of $x$ and $\dot{x}$ like $x$ and $y$ coordinates. Then you can draw $dx$ and $d\dot{x}$ as little displacement vectors.): $$dL = \frac{\partial{L}}{\partial \dot{x}}d\dot{x} + \frac{\partial{L}}{\partial x} dx = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}} \frac{\partial \dot{x}}{\partial \epsilon} d \epsilon + \frac{\partial L}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon} d\epsilon $$ The right hand side is really the total change of $L$ due to $\epsilon$, so the corresponding rate of change $dL/d\epsilon$ is a total derivative To determine it, we now simply divide both sides by $d\epsilon$ (I know this isn't rigerous, but I think it helps to build an intuitive unterstanding): $$\frac{dL}{d\epsilon} = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}} \frac{\partial \dot{x}}{\partial \epsilon}+\frac{\partial L}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon}$$ And there you have it.

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  • $\begingroup$ Thanks for the answer. What's the reason for downvote for this answer ? I was gonna accept it as "accepted". $\endgroup$
    – Giorgi
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:26
  • $\begingroup$ it's though funny, that for $x(t)$, he doesn't use partial derivative and writes $\frac{dx}{d\epsilon}$. Why is that ? i can say the same argument that it's a function of $\epsilon$ and t and we only care about what happens to it when $\epsilon$ changes. i don't think he made a mistake because he wrote: $\frac{dx}{d\epsilon} = 0 + f(t)$. If he had written partial, we wouldn't have 0 for the derivative of $\hat x(t)$, but we would have $\hat x(t)$ directly as we don't derivate it with respect to $t$, but $\epsilon$ partially $\endgroup$
    – Giorgi
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:34
  • $\begingroup$ @Chemistry I think he should have used the partial derivative there aswell, just for consistency. But in this specific case it doesn't matter, because the time parameter does not depend on $\epsilon$. If $\epsilon$ was time-dependent, then we would have $$\frac{d x(\epsilon,t(\epsilon))}{d\epsilon} = \frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon} + \frac{\partial x}{\partial t} \frac{\partial t}{\partial \epsilon} \neq \frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon}$$ $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:42
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Then we differentiate action with respect to $\epsilon$ to see how action changes when $\epsilon$ changes:

$$\frac{dS}{d\epsilon} = \int \frac{\partial L}{\partial x} \frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon}$$ (note that i didn't fully write the second part for $\dot x$ but it should be included.

I wonder now, why did he bring partial derivative for $L$ in $\frac{dS}{d\epsilon}$ but not for $\frac{dx}{d\epsilon}$.

Presumably he is trying to emphasize that $x$ is a function of both $\epsilon$ and $t$, whereas $S$ is not.

However, if you want to be really pedantic you could argue that $S$ is also a function of the endpoints, so really the derivative on $S$ should be partial as well.

We are usually not so pedantic in physics because there are usually way worse notational issues to deal with.


To explain further, consider the action: $$ S(\epsilon, t_1, t_2, q) = \int_{t_1}^{t_2}dt L(\hat x(t)+\epsilon f(t), \dot {\hat x}+\epsilon\dot f(t), t, q)\;, $$ where $q$ represents all the parameters we don't usually write explicitly.

To first order in $\epsilon$ the action is: $$ S(\epsilon, t_1, t_2, q) = \int_{t_1}^{t_2}dt \left(L(\hat x(t), \dot {\hat x}, t, q) + \epsilon f(t)\frac{\partial L}{\partial x}(\hat x,\dot {\hat x}, t, q) + \epsilon \dot f(t)\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot x}(\hat x,\dot {\hat x}, t, q) \right)\;. $$

Therefore, by definition of the derivative, we have $$ \frac{dS}{d\epsilon}(t_1,t_2,q) = \int_{t_1}^{t_2}dt \left( f(t)\frac{\partial L}{\partial x}(\hat x,\dot {\hat x}, t, q) + \dot f(t)\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot x}(\hat x,\dot {\hat x}, t, q) \right)\;. $$

If you would prefer to rename: $$ f(t) \to \frac{\partial x}{\partial \epsilon} $$ go for it.

If you would prefer to rename: $$ \frac{dS}{d\epsilon} \to \frac{\partial S}{\partial \epsilon} $$ go for it.

Regardless of how you use the notation, the result is the same.

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  • $\begingroup$ The fact that we have an action of the left hand side is besides the point. He could also have written $\frac{dS}{d\epsilon} = \int \frac{d L}{d\epsilon}$. The partial derivatives are introduced because there are multiple contributions to the rate of change due to the different variables $x$ and $\dot{x}$ of the Lagrangian. $\endgroup$ Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:19
  • $\begingroup$ @LenardKasselmann OP specifically asked about the action. He could have asked about many different hypothetical things, but he asked about the action. $\endgroup$
    – hft
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:20
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    $\begingroup$ thanks to both of you, but I have to agree with @Lenard. It seems more important part is partial derivative idea in this case which I better understood from it. Thanks for the effort. definitely clicking upvote on this, but can't accept it. Thank you ^_^ $\endgroup$
    – Giorgi
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 21:29

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