1
$\begingroup$

In Lagrangian mechanics, I came across the notion of a point transformation which leaves the Lagrangian invariant. Normally it is denoted as follows.

$$Q = Q(q,t).$$

Now, unlike in the case of a canonical transformations (wherein there exist certain explicit conditions to check if a given transformation is canonical), I am unable to find a mechanism with which I can check whether a transformation, given as above, is a point transformation. Further, the instructor in my course said

'Unlike the Lagrangian which is invariant under any transformation, the Hamiltonian is not invariant under any arbitrary transformation. This is because the canonical coordinates and the conjugate momenta are independent in the Hamiltonian paradigm, but they are related in the Lagrangian paradigm.'

Does this mean that any transformation of the form $ Q = Q(q,t) $ is a point transformation i.e leaves the Lagrangian invariant? If not, how do I check if a given transformation is a point transformation?

$\endgroup$
0

2 Answers 2

0
$\begingroup$

Yes, a point transformation
$$q^i \longrightarrow Q^i~=~f^i(q,t)\tag{1}$$ is a canonical transformation (CT) with a type 2 generating function $$ F_2(q,P,t)~=~\sum_{i=1}^nf^i(q,t)P_i, \tag{2}$$

In the context of the Lagrangian formalism, it is usually argued that we have absolute freedom to perform point transformations.

Remember that Lagrange's equation are unchanged by point transformations.

Quick exercise for which would be very helpful -

Show that a point transformation is a canonical transformation.

$\endgroup$
2
  • $\begingroup$ Isn't saying 'Lagrange's equations are unchanged' and saying 'the Lagrangian is invariant' the same thing? I understand that point transformations are canonical. But to define a point transformation as a transformation that leaves Lagrange's equations unchanged, how do I check that without working out the EoMs. Are you trying to say that all canonical transformations will be point transformations and therefore, the same conditions can be used to check? $\endgroup$
    – newtothis
    Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 12:16
  • $\begingroup$ @newtothis No Lagrangian is not invariant , go to polar coordinates from caartesian it will change. Lagrange equations are invariant. Again No all Point transformations are canonical not the other way round and hence you can check with Poisson bracket. If you got the answer you can accept it or if you have any other doubt I will try and answer. $\endgroup$
    – Shashaank
    Commented Jul 4, 2020 at 12:47
0
$\begingroup$
  1. A transformation $Q^j =f^j(q,\dot{q}, t)$ of generalized coordinates in Lagrangian mechanics is by definition called a point transformation if it doesn't depend on generalized velocities $\dot{q}^k$.

  2. OP essentially asked:

    Q: Does it leave the Lagrangian invariant?

    A: It is invariant from the perspective of a passive coordinate transformation/reparametrization. It is generically not invariant from the perspective of an active transformation nor is it form invariant. (It should perhaps be stressed that Lagrangian invariance is irrelevant for the definition of a point transformation.)

$\endgroup$
0

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.