3
$\begingroup$

I'm trying to understand how to derive $-\vec{\nabla}V$ from $V_b-V_a=-\int\vec{E}\cdot d\vec{l}$. I'm not really familiar with the gradient operator, I know how to compute it and I know that $\vec{\nabla}=\hat{i}\frac{\partial}{\partial x}+\hat{j}\frac{\partial}{\partial y}+\hat{k}\frac{\partial}{\partial z}$.

From that formula, I guess that writing $\vec{\nabla}f$ would give as result a vector whose direction depends on the increase/decrease of $f$ in the $x$, $y$ and $z$ directions (it would point towards the positive $x$ direction, positive $y$ direction and negative $z$ direction if $f$ is increasing in the $x$ and $y$ direction, and $f$ is decreasing in the $z$ direction), and the length of the vector in those directions depends on how much $f$ it's increasing and decreasing in those directions. I don't know if this is correct, I've never read anything about the $\vec{\nabla}$ operator, and the formula above is all I was given.

The book I'm reading derives that equation on the following page as follows.

enter image description here

enter image description here


The footnote is as follows.

enter image description here


What I don't understand is how is $-\vec{E}\cdot d \vec{l}=-E_ldl$? The dot product $\vec{E}\cdot d \vec{l}$ is equivalent to $E_xdx+E_ydy_+E_zdz$ or equivalent to $(E)(dl)cos(\theta)$ but I don't get how these last two are equivalent to $-E_ldl$. And I don't get how equation (8) is equal equation (9), which is equal to $-\vec{\nabla}V$.

Could you help me out please?

$\endgroup$

2 Answers 2

4
$\begingroup$

It seems to be that this is just a question of semantics. The statement $$\mathbf{E}\cdot\text{d}\ell = E_\ell\, \text{d}\ell$$ is not telling you anything new: it's just writing the dot product in a different way. Just as $E_x$ represents the "amount" of Electric Field in the $\mathbf{\hat{x}}$ direction, $E_\ell$ represents the amount of the field in the $\text{d}\mathbf{\hat{\ell}}$ direction, whatever that direction might be. For example, it should be clear to you that:

$$\mathbf{E}\cdot \text{d} \mathbf{x} = E_x \text{d}x.$$

So by the very definition of the dot product, $\mathbf{E}\cdot\text{d}\mathbf{\ell} = E_\ell \text{d}\ell$, since that's what the dot product is doing: it's picking out the component of the electric field along the direction given by the $\text{d}\hat{\ell}$ vector.

If you wish to use your standard definition of $$\mathbf{E}\cdot \text{d} \mathbf{\ell} = E \,\cos\theta\,\, \text{d}\ell,$$ where $\theta$ is the angle between $\mathbf{E}$ and $\text{d}\mathbf{\ell}$, then the quantity $E\cos\theta$ is precisely what one would call $E_\ell$. i.e. $$E_\ell = E \cos{\theta}.$$

(Of course, keep in mind that as you integrate over a curve, the angle between $\mathbf{E}$ and $\text{d}\ell$ could change, and so in general, $\theta$ is a function of $\ell$ and not a constant.)


As to how Equations (8) and (9) are related, the author simply chooses the (arbitrary) direction $\ell$ respectively in Equation (8) to be $x$, $y$, and $z$. This leads to Equation (9). The partial derivatives appear since you're only varying one coordinate at a time, keeping the others fixed.

$\endgroup$
5
  • $\begingroup$ Oh yeah I didn't think about it thank you! Can I ask you if what i wrote about the gradient operator is correct? $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 18, 2021 at 11:51
  • $\begingroup$ Well it's worded a little confusingly. The main thing that you may not have understood is that the gradient is a vector field, meaning that it gives a different vector at different points in space. At each point in space, the direction of this vector is the direction of steepest slope. Keep in mind that a vector cannot point in more than one direction: it will point in the net direction of steepest change. Does that make sense? $\endgroup$
    – Philip
    Commented Mar 18, 2021 at 11:58
  • $\begingroup$ So, for example, your statement it would point towards the positive $x$ direction, positive $y$ direction and negative $z$ direction if: $f$ is increasing in the $x$ and $y$ direction, and $f$ is decreasing in the $z$ direction is not correct. Firstly, the gradient (at some point) only points in one direction, and its magnitude would also depend on how fast or slow the function is changing in each direction. So to know which way it points, you also need to know the "steepness" along $x$, $y$, and $z$... $\endgroup$
    – Philip
    Commented Mar 18, 2021 at 12:01
  • $\begingroup$ yeah maybe i didn't explain myself well, with "it would point towards the positive x direction, positive y direction and negative z direction" i mean that it is a vector for with components positive, positive negative respectively, like (+3,+4,-2), and if that's the gradient of $f$ that would mean that $f$ is changing more rapidly in the $y$ direction. I think this is what you said as well right? $\endgroup$ Commented Mar 18, 2021 at 12:06
  • $\begingroup$ Yes. In the example you've given, the change is the most along $y$ as compared to along $x$ and $z$, yes. However, keep in mind that in this case the direction of the gradient will not be purely along $y$. You can compute that direction from the vector you have given, and that will be the direction along which the change is steepest, even more than along $y$. (I find that in such problems, it's best to first develop an intuition in 2D, and only then move to 3D :) ) $\endgroup$
    – Philip
    Commented Mar 18, 2021 at 12:07
0
$\begingroup$

You are right that the gradient does give the direction of increase.

If we know that any component of electric field $E_l$ is equal to the negative of the rate of change of electric potential with respect to distance in that direction. One can simply rewrite the vector field $\vec{E}$ as the vector sum of all its orthogonal components in terms of orthonormal basis vectors $\vec{E}=E_xe_x+E_ye_y+E_ze_z$. Then of course since the negative of your electric field can be expressed as a gradient of some potential function $V$, you get $\vec{E}=-\nabla V$ as a result.

$\endgroup$

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.