1

This question arose while studying the circle of fifths. Along with the cadence, I learned the progressions below.

  1. viio - iii - vi - ii - V - I
  2. I - IV - I
  3. I - V - I
  4. I - IV - V - I

But if 'I - IV - V - I' can be possible why can't a 'I - IV - viio - I'? Or is it possible that it is just not in the description?

And In that case, the circle of fifths is not fully achieved. But if don't mind the circle of fifth. can't we just proceed with that?

5
  • Why do you think the progression is not possible? Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 15:45
  • @MichaelCurtis Because there was such an explanation. ' The IV function consists of only two chords (IV-I) except for the Diminished triad (viio). ' ... It makes sense if you think about it limited to the circle of fifths, but seeing that I-IV-V-I progression is possible, it felt like there was a special limit to the use of viio.
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 25, 2022 at 2:23
  • Where did that statement come from? A book, a we page? Commented Jun 27, 2022 at 12:38
  • @michaelcurtis a book in main text (korean book)
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 28, 2022 at 3:27
  • @michaelcurtis sorry, main text in this post music.stackexchange.com/questions/123504/…
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 28, 2022 at 3:40

3 Answers 3

1

The I-IV-viio-I progression is possible, but is omitted from the examples, because they are focused on cadences by perfect fifth. In all of the cases above, the final I chord is approached by either descending or ascending fifth.

6
  • thanks but (IV-V) in 'I - IV - V - I' is not fifth too so why that is can?
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 7:01
  • Are you saying that when go to the last I, have to go to the fifth?
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 7:04
  • Right. I'm pointing out that each of the examples ends with a perfect fifth either descending (V-I) or ascending (IV-I).
    – Aaron
    Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 7:09
  • 1
    @guss2222 it might be worth noting that either IV or viiº would have to be in some inversion. It would be odd for the bass to move from ^4 to ^7, which would be the case if they were both in root position (in fact viiº rarely appears in root position).
    – phoog
    Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 8:53
  • @phoog aha Augmented 4th. maybe that's the reason to why not much come as an example. Thank you phoog . that's very good point
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 24, 2022 at 9:09
2

All those progressions are likely to sound good. And actually, you can make pretty much any progression sound phenomenal in the right context.

I don't see any problem with I - IV - viio - I. It's actually a quite common progression in popular music, and it will sound great. It just doesn't follow the circle of fifths (Actually is kind of does if you think if the viio as a V7 in first inversion). But anyway you should think of the circle of fifths as a tool for writing progressions, not a dogmatic rule.

0
1

I think it helps to not think about the "circle of fifths" progression but instead think of "roots by descending fifth" progression. The ideas are more or less the same, but the latter wording focuses more on relative root progression rather than a specific chord template.

When you look at your several progressions you will see that all of them are based on root progression by descending fifth. The four progressions feature...

  • viio - iii - vi - ii - V - I, all descending fifths
  • I - IV - I, first change is descending fifth
  • I - V - I, second change is descending fifth
  • I - IV - V - I, a descending fifth progression harmonically sequenced up a fifth

Root progression by descending fifth is considered a strong progression. Other strong progressions are roots by descending fourth and roots by ascending step. Notice that all your examples are entirely combinations of those three strong progression types.

Other progression being considered weak should not be misunderstood to mean bad or not allowed. Strong progressions have a connection to rhythm, the bar line, and cadences, and so the handling of strong/weak progressions has structural importance for phrasing and form.

But if 'I - IV - V - I' can be possible why can't a 'I - IV - viio - I'?

Any chord progression is possible, but you might explain them different ways. I'm not sure why you say the second progression is possible despite with these chords, in your words, "the circle of fifths is not fully achieved". I mean only that I don't know why you recognize these chords can work regardless of whether they conform to the circle of fifths. But, probably the most common way to explain it would be through chord function.

In functional harmony chord functions are: tonic, dominant, and pre-dominant. You can read up on the details of functional harmony, but the main point for your question is dominant function can be achieved with either V or viio. In other words the two progressions - I IV V I and I IV viio I - are functionally the same. The are both tonic pre-dominant dominant tonic.

The viio chord will often be in first inversion viio6, but that is more of a voice leading issue and doesn't change what happens functionally.

But if don't mind the circle of fifth.

You really should not think of harmony being derived from the circle of fifths progression.

Instead think of...

  • relative root progressions
  • chord and scale degree functions
  • chords are the result of voice leading

From comments...

thanks but (IV-V) in 'I - IV - V - I' is not fifth too so why that is can?

As I mentioned above this is a descending fifth progression harmonically sequenced. I IV is a descending fifth, V I is a descending fifth. As a harmonic sequence you just take I IV and raise it a perfect fifth and repeat the progression. You can also think of it "grammatically." Using functional labels it's just tonic > pre-dominant > dominant > tonic the epitome of functional harmony. But, you can also think of it "grammatically" as a departure from the tonic I IV, which is a sort of "opening", like an antecedent, and a return to the tonic V I, which is sort of "closing", like a postcedent.

...but (IV-V)...

That is root progression by ascending step. Root progression by descending fifth is not the only usable progression. The basic run down of common root progressions are:

  • descending fifth, ex. V I, a "closing"
  • descending fourth, ex. I V, an "opening"
  • descending thirds, ex. I vi IV ii viio V, a movement from tonic through predominant/subdominant to the dominant
  • ascending step, ex. IV V, a movement from subdominant to dominant, of V vi, a "desceptive progression

You should also be aware of how important the bass line is apart from the chords and chord roots and the sort of harmonic "equivalence" some progressions have. Ex. IV V I and ii6 V I where the root progression are different, but the bass parts are the same. In common use those two progressions are effectively the same.

Also be aware that some relative root progressions are commonly found in specific regions of a key. Like roots by ascending step in IV V or V vi as very common, but ii iii being less common, but you could "explain" ii iii "working" with good voice leading an using the modal/secondary chords as a sort of functional pre-dominant depending on the specifics. In other words the position of roots in a key can often be more important than the interval/direction of the root progression.

4
  • I'm not sure why you say the second progression is possible. <-- did you mean to say actually 'is not possible' right? But the reason was mentioned before. and i'm never think harmony being derived from the circle of fifths progression.
    – guss2222
    Commented Jun 29, 2022 at 3:05
  • I wrote "...you say the second progression is possible." I was trying to summarize what I thought you meant. You suggested the second progression should be possible. I agree that it is and just wanted to explain why. Commented Jun 29, 2022 at 12:39
  • "...i'm never think harmony being derived from the circle of fifths progression..." You mentioned "circle of fifths" three times in your question about chord progressions. Commented Nov 3, 2022 at 13:24
  • "But if don't mind the circle of fifth" Don't you know why I said this? That is to say I don't think all chords should go along with the circle of fifth. I was just asking a question that arises when it is assumed that only the progress of the circle of fifth described in the book is made!! Is that a difficult word? Why are you making puns in comments after a while? It's dawn here now, and it's absurd that I'm making such an explanation.
    – guss2222
    Commented Jan 2, 2023 at 16:17

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.