-23

Collectives™ on Stack Overflow continues to move through its beta stage, and our newest Collective, WSO2, launched in June. They are off to a great start! The team there is very committed to improving engagement and encouraging contributions by their WSO2 subject matter experts on Stack Overflow. They are focused on getting more answers to questions faster, sharing expanded knowledge and how-to articles, and announcing tech events/product releases via Bulletins. We have greatly appreciated their enthusiasm and collaboration.

The beta phase includes lots of experimentation and exploration as we consider various types of commercial and open-source relationships. The Google Go Language Collective was one of the first efforts we launched, and we will be decommissioning that Collective as we examine the best ways to provide sub-community spaces for open-source technologies.

What we learned from Go

As one of the inaugural Collectives, Go helped prove out the idea that the Collectives concept appeals to Stack Overflow users who have expertise and focused interest in the tags. It was important for us to launch with an open-source and commercial customer. We strongly believe that Collectives can benefit both types of user communities. The Go Collective helped highlight some of the successes that are possible for Collectives and also helped define some of the challenges.

We saw some very encouraging results from early on, finding that engagement from users that join a Collective increased about 30% across associated tags. That activity is across both questions and answers. Increased and sustained engagement on the platform from Collective members is a key metric we track.

However, one use case that Collectives is not ready to tackle yet is existing without direct involvement from a sponsor organization. In any community, consistent participation from a set of dedicated individuals is essential. As we know, resourcing for open-source projects tends to be constrained and can shift around. For a variety of reasons, the Go Collective could not be supported at the level necessary to sustain a healthy sub-community.

We’ll be removing the Collective-related elements from questions that were included within it. For a full list of the changes that occur when a collective is decommissioned, see the help center article.

In the longer term with a more mature product, we do imagine that a collaboratively-run Collective could exist with little or even no direct involvement from a supporting organization. Indeed, Stack Exchange sites have proven that knowledge-focused technology sub-communities can thrive. As we continue to build out Collectives, we will be exploring how to potentially support different sub-community scenarios.

What does a non-sponsored, open-source Collective need to be self-sustaining on Stack Overflow?

We will continue to iterate on the approach to open-source topics in particular. Open source very much aligns with the ethos of Stack Overflow — publicly accessible information. First and foremost, a critical mass of members, contributors, and leaders will need to be at the core. They will also require space and tools for collaboration and planning.

We’re interested to hear what you think. Our aim is for Collectives to be an area for deeper knowledge exploration and collaboration for those who wish to opt in.

  • If you’ve been a member of the Go Collective, what more would you have liked to see?
  • If you contribute to open-source projects, what additional resources would you want to see on Stack Overflow when browsing a collection of related questions?
14
  • 20
    "we will be decommissioning that Collective" It was the biggest collective, so the number of members cannot be the reason it failed to provide a necessary level of support. I wonder what else it was. "Collectives to be an area for deeper knowledge exploration and collaboration" Hm, not sure if collectives were advertised as such. How do collectives provide deeper knowledge exploration and collaboration? By their leader boards, or by their (somewhat low) number of articles or by their recommended by badges? Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 20:37
  • 5
    @Trilarion The collective could not receive the necessary level of support, meaning the necessary level of involvement from the sponsor. Articles are the main area of knowledge exploration and collaboration; they are created via a submission/feedback/approval process and the longer-form content allows for a deeper dive into the subject. For examples, check out the WSO2 Collective which has 29 Articles so far.
    – Berthold StaffMod
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 20:53
  • 54
    All of which... are copied from medium. How does the article existing here grow collaboration/exploration?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 21:04
  • 4
    @Berthold I see. The main thing is articles then. Google engineers didn't want to or couldn't write sufficiently many good articles about Go in the past. But it's not because we didn't wanted these articles, we tried to give valuable feedback to make them even better about content and rules. Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 21:35
  • 49
    I understand bills need to be paid, but I'm glad to be able to browse Go questions again without the distraction of collectives-related flair and badges.
    – ggorlen
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 4:33
  • 1
    "users that join a Collective increased about 30% across associated tags" SO website's tag filters are less convenient. So let us put links to particular tag filters where the collective button was.
    – erik258
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 22:03
  • 15
    It took me way too long to find even a suggestion online as to what "WSO2" was short for. Perhaps the Collective here can add value by being one of the first places on the web to define it.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 21:25
  • 10
    @TylerH their blog mentions "Nobody still knows what the name means. The name WSO2 comes from (but does not stand for) Web Services (WS) Oxygen (O2)" - so now I'm wondering what it does stand for (probably nothing).
    – Marijn
    Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 10:47
  • 11
    FWIW, WSO2 doesn't exactly have a good track record here. For a few years, their only available "support" was a link to their tag on Stack Overflow. As you'd expect, the tag became a dumping ground for unanswered, poorly formed questions with nonexistent voting activity. Expecting that things will suddenly be different because they're a part of a "collective" is false hope at its finest.
    – Aaron
    Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 12:53
  • @Marijn What I found said "web services oxygenated", in other words trying to inject some oxygen to make something operate more cleanly (oxygenation typically makes things burn cleaner from a chemical standpoint). But yes it's really a travesty how opaque the name is.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 13:29
  • 10
    @Aaron Isn't that the case with all of the collectives so far, though?
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 13:29
  • It's unfortunate that the link from our profile is removed (Example: the Go Collective suggests we read: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/367609/…) instead of leaving the link intact and allowing us to easily go where we were; it's much like deleting a Tag, to prevent access to it.
    – Rob
    Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 23:01
  • 2
    I was about to ask "Where did the Go collective... go?" Commented Sep 7, 2022 at 3:37
  • Thank you Berthold. Recently the GitLab Collective was dissolved: stackoverflow.com/collectives/gitlab but there's a clear link to all the Q&As stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/… - thanks for addressing this request.
    – Rob
    Commented Sep 30, 2022 at 18:43

6 Answers 6

112

Collectives are a marketing and advertising feature; they're not really a community feature. This creates an inherent conflict that is very hard to resolve. The main purpose of collectives is to advertise and present the project to SO users.

There are two big features that are tied to collectives right now

  • the ability to group a large set of related tags into one topic

  • long-form articles

The connection of these features to collectives is artificial, especially articles could also stand on their own. There is still a lot about articles that needs to be done for them to actually work, especially how reputation works with them and how to ensure that articles are reasonably high quality. But collectives didn't solve these problems; they just side-stepped them and limited them because only very few people can actually post articles.

I don't really see a purpose for collectives apart from the marketing aspect. I think it is unrealistic and not especially desirable to replace the actual project documentation with a collective on SO. Articles extend the scope of SO a bit beyond Q&A, but they can't replace a real homepage with real documentation and other parts that a project might need. They also do not handle bugs and issues, so you need a separate bug/issue tracker anyway. The most useful thing an open source project can do on SO is to get their experts to answer questions, and you don't need collectives for that. That is the best way to "engage with the community", articles and bulletins are a minor component compared to providing the existing expert knowledge in Q&A.

I think SE should take a hard look at collectives and consider what problems they actually solve. And be honest with yourselves and the community here, pretending this is not primarily a marketing and advertising feature is hindering all discussions about this.

4
  • 32
    I always thought there was a legitimate place for Collectives as sponsored tags on steroids. I thought the inclusion of Articles was a big mistake, certainly a solution in search of a problem, and what we've seen play out since the launch of the feature has only confirmed that concern in spades. Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 7:38
  • 3
    @CodyGray that's my impression as well, I think being more honest about this being pure marketing would help to focus the feature. And while I think that articles on their own are a valuable idea, they're just really hard to get right in the context of the Q&A sites. Providing the right incentives and handling quality control and moderation are very hard problems, and SE hasn't solved them for articles. Coupling them to collectives simply keeps the number of articles low enough that you can manually manage the problem. Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 7:42
  • 6
    I agree completely. A small nitpick though, anyone can write Articles now. They get checked (in as much as that actually happens) and approved by recognised community members.
    – Joundill
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 11:44
  • 5
    I think the ironic thing to this answer is that this is the discussion I had wanted to have months ago, but then it was simply decided that this is the way forward. So, while I think your perspective is accurate, I don't have any faith left in me that the company will listen to it.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 17:23
46

If you contribute to open-source projects, what additional resources would you want to see on Stack Overflow when browsing a collection of related questions?

The ability to more easily remove off-topic, unsuitable, or otherwise problematic questions that have tags relating to areas of my expertise. Such questions are cluttering up the site, making useful information and interesting questions to answer harder to find. As a subject-matter expert, with experience using Stack Overflow, I am in the best possible position to assess the suitability of a particular question.

Nitpicker's Corner: While I have written this answer in first person, I do realize that I am a moderator and thus do have the ability to single-handedly remove unsuitable content. That's not really the point. Assume this answer is from someone who contributes to open-source projects but is not a diamond moderator.

2
  • Is this a feature request for a close/delete hammer to go along with the gold badge dupe hammer? Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 19:18
  • 5
    That feature request, and multiple variations, has been posted multiple times, @Dan, including by yours truly. This isn't necessarily meant to be that, specifically. It's just meant to be a response to the question that Berthold asked. But yeah, that would certainly be one way of achieving it. Commented Aug 27, 2022 at 4:18
27

If you contribute to open-source projects, what additional resources would you want to see on Stack Overflow when browsing a collection of related questions?

This is hit or miss depending on the open source project. I like to think of the Spring Framework as a reasonable standard for open source projects, and their site has copious amounts of documentation and tutorials. There are also other sister sites that expand upon that knowledge and are able to provide their own useful collective of information independent of Stack Overflow.

To answer the question of what we'd want to see on Stack Overflow when browsing a collection of related questions for open source, we would need to understand the value-add that Collectives would even bring to those projects. Not all open source code is worth putting into collectives, and in my opinion, most of the open source projects who have wide adoption have already put in the work to create something analogous to a collective, in one form or another.

What do Collectives then bring to the table? Just aggregating data isn't enough since Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo/Jeeves will take us to wherever when we ask the question we're trying to solve.

7
  • 4
    it further gamifies participating in those tags, creating a false sense of accomplishment that drives up participation in those tags.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 17:42
  • 5
    I cared about gamification when I was a college junior just starting on Stack Overflow, @KevinB. Ten years later I'm in the industry and solving material problems at scale. I ain't got time to care about the euphoria of unicorn points anymore.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 17:43
  • You don't have to care about gamification, for it to have an impact on the users participating in those tags and any "positive" results that are being gleaned from it.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 17:44
  • 7
    Maybe to put it more pointedly @KevinB, Stack Overflow as a resource is still valuable to myself and my team. Collectives, for better or for worse, have been chosen as the vehicle to generate revenue for this site. Having trouble making their new vehicle work for other cases is troubling, since the same pattern for "people who care about product X" also exists in the proprietary world, but likely to a lesser degree/reach.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 17:45
  • 1
    Who's to say that this won't flop when it comes to something that is proprietary and paid for because we weren't able to establish the core value add that a service like this provided that was superior to the disjointed (but still easily tied together with the help of ${searchEngine}) method of just searching for it on the web or on Stack Overflow proper?
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 17:52
  • 2
    Collectives was defended as a way to make money (keep the lights on). Not sure it is making a lot of money when concentrating on open source. Also not sure, what exactly collectives can do. Deeper knowledge exploration and collaboration sound cool, but not sure what they mean here. Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 20:42
  • 2
    @Trilarion: Open source communities and corporate-backed communities only differ in the sense that one can and often would pay, and the other group might not be able to pay. I feel like they're two sides of the same coin: it's a technology with a community of experts to it that have knowledge to contribute. I do want to be challenged on this, but I can't see how these communities are all that different, and I would anticipate that both could run into the same friction points with Collectives.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 22:00
25

Here's a couple thoughts that you might want to consider.

I am (was, before summer vacation) an engaged member of the Go Collective, mostly by writing answers, closing duplicates and curating older content.

The Go project has an outstanding — really, excellent — documentation system. Articles and bulletins have indeed very limited utility, and are easily outmatched by the official resources, both in scope and depth. I don't think Google nor Go need a dedicated page and icons on Stack Overflow to improve their reach.

The only two actually useful features that the Collective brought to the tag are recommendations and recognized members. Especially the former one.

Recommended Answers

Recommendations are useful in older questions with very highly upvoted answers to pinpoint the best one among them. For newbies it can be a demanding task to choose between several formally correct solutions with score in the hundreds, that differ in small style of performance details.

Some times those are highlighted in the comments, but the Collective recommendation helps a ton in this, even where the Trending Sort falls short due to huge vote differences. OTOH, recommendations are useless and potentially harmful in newer threads with few answers. SO's own scoring system already does a fine job about that, instead early Recommendations may discourage people from posting newer or alternative answers.

Currently, the number of people who can recommend answers is very limited. Collective Employees or Recognized Members that work on the Go project, who may be able to confidently identify answers to recommend, aren't sufficiently engaged; and regular users who are Recognized and more engaged on SO perhaps don't curate old content or don't feel like interfering with highly viewed posts. As a recent example, the introduction of generics in Go 1.18 was a huge language change that prompted newer answers to many old questions. That was a prime use case for answer recommendations, but I haven't seen any. I would've welcomed a feature that allowed more people to recommend answers.

Some possible solutions were:

  • allow non-Employee and non-Recognized Collective members to suggest recommendations
  • allow gold badge holders to recommend answers

...both points come with their own challenges and UX details that need to be fleshed out. Hopefully this can give you some ideas for the future.

Recognized Members or Employees

This was useful to give more credibility to answers posted by official maintainers of the project who have low reputation on Stack Overflow. Being a maintainer doesn't imply that their answers are always the best ones, but likely they know what they're talking about. It gives more due visibility to certain posts.

OTOH the "Recognized" status became sort of redundant on already engaged high-rep members or even potentially harmful on random blog writers that post mediocre content now with official-looking Collective labels on it. Admittedly, I didn't see this becoming an abuse vector. Anyway, I would've welcomed clearer rules about who can be Recognized Member and/or what's the process for becoming one.

In the end I'm not particularly sad that the Go Collective is being decommissioned. The overall value it brought to the tag was moderate. I see Collectives as best suited for projects and organizations that actually need the exposure provided by Stack Overflow. Google and Go perhaps isn't one of them.

3
  • 8
    thank you for your feedback. I found it very helpful. Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 14:28
  • Out of curiosity, do you think the Recommended Answers feature helped find answers that were more relevant to Collective members in particular (rather than the general public)? Or do you think that those Recommended Answers were more helpful/high-quality overall, even to those who might not be (or might not be interested in being) members of the Collective?
    – V2Blast
    Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 21:32
  • 2
    @V2Blast actually I don’t think there is a distinction between content based on relevancy to Collective members vs. general public. I mean, Collective membership doesn’t define a different group of users with different interests and/or goal. Everybody in the [go] tag is there because they are interested in Go. The Collective markers, in that regard, are purely cosmetic
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Sep 3, 2022 at 22:29
13

We’ll be removing the Collective-related elements from questions that were included within it. For a full list of the changes that occur when a collective is decommissioned, see the help center article.

The help centre article says of Articles (emphasis mine):

When a Collective with published Articles gets decommissioned, those Articles will be decoupled from the Collective and made accessible to the public, since they are part of the knowledge base. The specifics of this process are still to be determined.

Now that this is happening, what are the specifics of that process?

Given that half the Articles are copied from elsewhere, and the Collective to which they were attached is dissolved, will those articles now be deleted?

Will the community be able to moderate the Articles which are to be decoupled from the Collective and made "accessible to the public", now that that Collective doesn't exist to moderate the Articles?

11
  • 4
    "Given that half the Articles are copied from elsewhere, and the Collective to which they were attached is dissolved, will those articles now be deleted?" They don't necessarily need to be deleted. Since they are also published here, they also have the StackOverflow content license and could also just remain here forever. Analogy: if a user is deleted we do not remove its content, we only remove the affiliation (upon request). Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 11:09
  • @Trilarion Aside from Collectives' customers, does anyone really want Articles which have been copied from elsewhere?
    – Joundill
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 11:40
  • 3
    The Go Language Collective did not have any published articles, so we decided to hold off on implementing the functionality for decoupling an Article from a Collective that has been decommissioned. If/When a Collective gets decommissioned that has published Articles, we'll complete that implementation and update the associated documentation. Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 13:26
  • 1
    @Joundill "...which have been copied from elsewhere" Traditionally, SO did not care much if content is duplicated elsewhere. Many of the most popular questions can also easily be googled (nowadays). One could argue that it's the content in the network under the favorable license that counts. But I'm not sure. One would have to look at specific content of articles to see how much value they have. In the end we can in principle do edits more easily (except we can't for articles currently), so the content could diverge from its copy and become something unique. Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 14:30
  • 1
    @JohnM.Wright Wait, were none even proposed?
    – Joundill
    Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 14:35
  • 1
    @Joundill there were a small number of proposed Articles for the Go collective and we added some text to the help article if those folks want a copy of their article's text: "Authors with Articles that were in a draft state can use the contact form to request that the text of the draft be provided to them." Commented Aug 26, 2022 at 17:14
  • 2
    @Trilarion That's not true at all. SO has always been very much opposed to copying content wholesale from other sources. We've had explicit rules against it since nearly (if not the beginning, I just can't remember for certain), and the mods have been enforcing these policies for a decade. You are conflating two different things: simple/basic questions (research effort) with copying of content. SO has always been fine with simple/basic questions whose answers could also be found elsewhere. That doesn't mean we're OK with copied (plagiarized) content, which is what Joundill is talking about. Commented Sep 1, 2022 at 2:35
  • 1
    @Trilarion further to what Cody says, it looks like SE is now cool with copied content (for Collectives, anyway). Have a look at my earlier post about copied content in Articles. Fully half the Articles are long-form pieces which are entirely copied elsewhere on the internet. SE doesn't consider this plagiarism now for the purposes of Collectives' rules.
    – Joundill
    Commented Sep 1, 2022 at 6:02
  • The tour also lets Collectives users know to copy-paste their content from elsewhere.
    – Joundill
    Commented Sep 1, 2022 at 6:03
  • @Joundill and Cody: I would make a difference between plagiarism and copying content from oneself (self-plagiarism doesn't exist so to speak). But Cody is right. SO didn't have a problem with asking questions that are already answered elsewhere, but didn't want verbatim copies. So all the Collective members writing Collective Articles would have needed to do was slightly adapting their text (and they didn't). What I wanted to convey here is that the community could also do these adaptations by editing the content. However, I remember that editing of articles also wasn't possible/that easy. Commented Sep 1, 2022 at 6:35
  • @Trilarion we have 0 moderation ability as a community. We get votes and comments, and that's it.
    – Joundill
    Commented Sep 1, 2022 at 11:08
5

Warning: severely biased Go (amateur) programmer here! As such, my first reaction was 'oh no! another fantastic resource going away!'

But on the other hand, I asked myself: how long ago did I ask anything on the Go Collective, participated in whatever thread there was, or replied/edited/closed any unanswered question there?

And I realised that the answer was 'quite some time ago'. Since I'm constantly browsing the Web in search for answers to the weirdest questions that an amateur programmer always has, it would be a good sign if Google/Bing would consistently show answers coming from the Go Collective.

This is hardly the case. Perhaps, because as @blackgreen mentioned, there is so much documentation about Go, spread across the whole 'net.

The main hurdle I personally face is to seek, among the potential questions/answers, those that have some genuine content worth reading. This is what is supposed to happen 'automatically' as participants vote up and down on them. But if a large proportion of 'noise' is mixed in the middle of some 'signal', it's easier to find worthless content and vote it up (just because it's easy to find!) than promoting a well-thought question up, which is so deeply buried that it hardly gets any readers, so... it will never be seen/read, and never been upvoted.

Note that this is not an issue specific to the Go Collective, or even of the constellation of sites around StackOverflow; all user-moderated content that relies exclusively on voting — from YouTube videos to corporate feature request voting on applications or even games — suffer from this. It's unavoidable, especially if there is a lot of user-moderated content. It's even hard to predict what kind of content will 'float to the top' — the concept of virality (the tipping point which makes certain content 'suddenly' to be seen — and voted! — by an exponentially-growing number of users in a short time) is, at the time of writing, completely unexplained (and unexplainable). If it weren't, marketeers would be using it all the time :-) It's something even not at the grasp of ML or other forms of AI — 'profiling virality', as of today, hasn't resulted in a simple set of rules to follow that will produce virality.

That said, I believe that the main issue with anything like the Go Collective, user-moderated mostly through voting content up and down, is very unlikely to produce so-called 'good content' of knowledge-base-quality consistently, and, perhaps more significantly for SO, automatically. This is, naturally enough, just my perception — you could call it a conjecture at best, i.e. something that can be tested with the scientific method in some way (and possibly refute it), but without explaining what the method should be.

In other words: the current model of SO does not automatically guarantee the production of a consistent amount of 'good content'. In fact, it might be argued that, on the long term, as the number of people using SO grows, the signal-to-noise ratio worsens, simply because the number of votes to keep 'good content' at the top will require to increase as well. I'm not a well-trained statistician, and forgot most of my university maths, but it seems to me that this is a universal trend of any system that is based solely on voting on 'good content'.

The major reason, of course, is that curated content is moderated by specialists, while user-generated upvoted content is merely a 'bikini contest': people voting up or down an answer are just manifesting its usefulness for themselves, not necessarily evaluating the answer's overall content quality. While there is a correlation between 'good content' and 'upvoting' — or else the whole of SO/SE would be completely worthless — such a correlation is not immediately obvious, and I guess that the SO/SE sysadmins, looking at their logs, will know very well the ratio between the number of times an answer is viewed and the actual number of voters. Or, if you prefer, there is no incentive for upvoting an answer that solves a problem and is well-written, unless you're a stakeholder (you wish a particular answer from a particularly knowledgeable user to be at the top of the searches of your community, to make sure that your community is valuable for all).

This is, indeed, the problem with anything that relies on collaborative volunteering (a.k.a. crowdsourcing). It's hard to offer any meaningful incentive for participants, except those incentives that participants (volunteers) develop for themselves. Once that self-incentivation is removed (through external reasons, e.g. rules change, original developers leave, excessive advertising starting to bother, cyberbullying, whatever...), it's harder and harder to keep such volunteers around.

Sorry about the convoluted way I'm answering this topic. Again, my opinion is not substantiated by scientific evidence. I'm just addressing the philosophical issue here: I believe (and aye, it's just a belief) that by merely creating a Collective, or some other sort of 'grouping' (under different assumptions and rules), is not guaranteed to automatically produce good content and an engaging community. It may happen, but it will be hit-and-miss. The only thing that can be consistently predicted is that, as a site/group/thread/forum/Collective increases the number of participants, the signal-to-noise ratio drops — something we've seen happening everywhere, from the earliest Bulletin-Board Systems to, well, USENET News.

In fact, the main reason usually stated for the complete abandoning of USENET News (except as a relay mechanism for pirated content, and as a niche for some die-hard users) — and, in a sense, IRC, although less so — has been shown to be the complete lack of moderator control. The move to 'corporate' websites essentially replicating USENET News have added value: since they're privately owned, their owners can, if they want, specify the terms and conditions under which their service is run; they can, if they wish, moderate content (and have the appropriate legal framework set in the terms & conditions that allow them to do so), expel users, and so forth. They even can, at a whim, change all the rules of engagement — if they prove not to be adequate for their original intent. This was impossible under USENET News, and the result was that so-called 'quality content & knowledge' migrated elsewhere (since the volunteers producing such content lost their incentive to 'stay' on USENET News).

The way each company operates their system varies, and it's not clear to me what approaches work, and what doesn't. Medium — and now Quora — seem to believe that their 'best' content producers should be placed behind a paywall, to encourage them to produce content only for 'premium' users. Again, in my opinion, this is not a good long-term guarantee of survival, mostly because if someone is willing to pay for good content, then it's much more likely they'll prefer to pay for professionally curated content, such as the content produced by, say, newspapers, or scientific journals, most of which provide high-quality content, at least high enough to get willing subscribers to the service. Accessing 'slightly better-written content' behind the paywalls of Quora or Medium is, well... not for me to say, but I expect that both companies (and possibly many others) will not thrive in the long term (disclaimer: both have contacted me via their sales department to become a writer behind their paywall — I declined, for the simple reason that I firmly believe that my content is not worthy to be 'paid for', even if just symbolically so, especially because I offer it for free on my own blog and, naturally enough, scattered among a plethora of websites out there). The main problem with them is that there is a 'free' level, with less and less good content producers (which will be co-opted, over time, to write-for-pay), where content will eventually be so bad that free users of the service will only have bad experiences there and therefore not believe it's worth paying for eventually 'slightly better' content...

Now, I understand that the ultimate goal for the Collectives would be to have an official sponsor as a source of revenue for Stack Exchange Inc. But that requires a bit more than merely setting up a technical way of 'building' such a specialised team/group/collective. I understand that you guys have put a reasonable amount in time & money to develop such technical functionalities, and now you naturally expect to get a return on that investment.

Here is my very simple solution, which will — I believe — be deemed acceptable by many SO 'hard core' users: get sponsors to sponsor tags addressing their products/services. Sponsors would have their logo appearing on the sidebar — e.g. not 'disturbing' the free flow of content on the Q&A themselves — but such sponsorship would not be merely 'advertising', but rather a kind of 'sponsored endorsement'. In other words: Google may sponsor the #go tag, because Go was originally developed at Google (and is still mostly maintained by them). Microsoft may sponsor #.NET, or C#. Apple may sponsor the whole of the thinkdifferent site, or optionally may sponsor tags such as #apple, #mac, or #iphone. Naturally enough, even non-profits may sponsor (in some way deemed reasonable for Stack Exchange Inc.) their tags as well, e.g. #firefox sponsored by the Mozilla Foundation, and so forth. In fact, in the non-technical forums, it might be even easier to get sponsors — from universities sponsoring tags in the science forums to entertainment giants (Disney sponsoring content related to Star Wars, or HBO for content related to the Fire & Ice saga in its many incarnations...).

While this limits, to an extent, the number of potential sponsors, at least such sponsors would be curated by Stack Exchange Inc., which would require of those sponsors (as you did with Google and the Go Collective) that they have a reasonable cause for interest in specific tags. But this might nt always be the case, and it would be up to Stack Exchange Inc. to decide what is 'reasonable', and what is not. For instance, it may be unavoidable that Oracle sponsors the #mysql tag; but it might be harder to decide if Bloomberg (aye, the financial news giant) should be allowed to sponsor the #sqlite tag, just because they are members of the SQLite Consortium (that sponsors the ongoing development of SQLite)! And nobody should be allowed to sponsor #sql, since it's hard to prove that that the specifications of the SQL language (not the server-specific dialects!) are 'owned' by anyone.

I'm not claiming that this would be a 'perfect' solution. But if your issue is how to measure the quality of sponsored content (so that such sponsors may be happy with the results), I don't believe that having 'collectives', under the current model, or a different-but-related set of rules, is the way to get you guys a regular stream of income — simply because you don't control the quality of the content, and, as such, you cannot give such metrics to your potential sponsors, neither can you make any claims regarding the 'overall quality' of content. That's impossible under any system operating under 'bikini contest' rules.

I'm aware that one might argue that Wikipedia, for example, 'works', in the sense it has high quality, fully user-generated content, and continues to grow and be relevant, in spite of an ever-growing community of users. Wikipedia therefore seems to go against the 'universal rule' that the signal-to-noise ratio goes down as the number of users grow exponentially.

However, Wikipedia does not work as a 'bikini contest'. Instead, it has several layers of curation. The so-called 'Wiktators', at their many levels, and numbered in the thousands (I've seen claims — wthout proof — that there are be more than 100,000 active Wiktators, at the many levels), make sure that content retains at least some semblance of quality — at the very least, content with mediocre quality will be flagged as such (alerting the potential visitor about the lack of accuracy, lack of reliable sources, and so forth). But such flagging does not happen automatically via voting up or voting down content! Rather, a human curator will read the whole article and make any necessary changes (including its deletion!). Such changes will then be reviewed by a higher-level moderator, and so forth — ultimately, Jimbo will rule as a court of last appeal (a role which he has refused to accept, and, as far as I could read about it, he never needed to exercise this 'ultimate power' in the past two decades).

It's conceivable that SO & friends may, at some point, develop into a similar knowledge base (albeit under a completely different model), but I would think that this will not really happen, for the simple reason that the 'ranking' of articles is mostly decided by voting in the bikini contest model, and only secondarily by its moderators. Since the ratio of moderators to participants is very low, it means that the few volunteers that patiently work through the questions & answers every day will constantly be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of data to process — for free. They will do their best effort to keep up, but there is a limit to how much they can do.

The main reason for that is perhaps that the rules for writing good questions and good answers are merely guidelines, which may be enforced a posteriori when moderators review content. But, until that happens, the 'bad content' remains there, indexed by search engines and web crawlers, taking votes up and down, and potentially allowing others, inspired by the 'bad content', to write similarly 'bad' questions & answers. Eventually, a moderator may step in and remove that content, or flag it for review at a higher level, etc., but since all of that takes precious volunteer time, it may not be effective except on the smallest communities.

Although technically Wikipedia is constructed 'from the bottom up' (that's what Jimbo originally intended), the reality is that it is moderated 'from the top down'. Aye, anyone can edit any article... but that doesn't mean that such an article will stay. As soon as someone writes/changes and article, they know that a moderator has just been flagged; and those moderators will make changes, according to an ever-increasing set of rules, which they do enforce, ruthlessly. That doesn't mean that people are discouraged to contribute to Wikipedia: it's just made very clear that either you abide by 'their' rules, or your content will be deleted, period. You may appeal, of course, but you really need to have very strong reasons, substantiated by the rules themselves, in order to have a chance to ever get heard. As such, naturally enough, only those willing to go through such a process of heavy editing, close moderation and curation, and abide by a huge set of rules, will actually spend their precious time to contribute — but they will so in a form and manner that promotes 'good' content (from the Wikipedia's moderators' perspective of what good content is — and they can define it objectively to a reasonably high degree!).

I don't think that you can promote good, quality content by merely waving a wand and allowing people to vote articles up and down. Rather, I believe that such content naturally emerges and stands out from the crowd because Google is more likely to find it. If you wish, it's thanks to the increasingly complex algorithms of search engines (possibly including SO's own!) that 'good content', like the proverbial needle, pops out from the (hay)stack under the force of a powerful magnet.

Stack Exchange Inc has managed to attract an impressive number of excellent writers (both on the 'answers' part as well as on the 'questions' part!) who managed — 'collectively' (pardon the pun!) — to generate a very decent amount of content over the many, many years. The better that content, the more people view it; the higher it ranks on search engines (not necessarily because it has a massive amount of votes!); which, in turn, attracts even more viewers, and so on. Even if I cannot estimate the number of queries that come from search engines, and the number that come from SO & friends own search, my guess is that the vast majority of viewers will basically have a question and thus search for some answer, expecting to find a list of 'good' matches; since this is usually the case (I'm talking about my own experience here!), viewers come back over and over again. Being therefore a good reference (and one where permalinks don't just stop working after a few years — aye, I consider that 'feature' critical to success!), the Stack Exchange Network becomes a de facto place to direct people to — no matter if it's on Super User, on Stack Overflow, on Unix & Linux, on Stack Exchange, or wherever Google finds a match. Ultimately, the site itself is less important than the content that is written there. And that's why artificially promoting a 'best of the best answers' — either through Collectives or any such similar grouping — will do little to enhance the overall experience. Personally, if I wish to get an answer to a Go question, I don't really worry if that answer is specifically inside the Go Collective, or outside it (maybe because someone 'forgot' to tag it adequately). I'm also not looking every day at the list of the last questions from the Go Collective and go through them sequentially, just to learn something new; the strictly Q&A format is not compelling for such a usage (especially because Q&As can have any possible origin — they're not necessarily grouped together to 'make sense'): the Community Wiki (being, well, a Wiki...) is (arguably) better for that; in fact, you might be more successful at getting sponsors for the Community Wiki(s)! (Not having used it in quite a long while, I admit I don't really know how popular it is these days...)

That said... I challenge you to prove me wrong on all points 😉

0

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .