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There are currently 7K posts tagged with .

Surprisingly, 6K of those posts (date of posting ranges from today to over 11 years ago) had no , such as or , added to them. Why is that?

The description of the tag is as follows:

Indicates that the feature request will not be implemented, or that a bug will not be fixed at present time.

So why does it seem so rare to have a tag added to a post where the feature clearly will not be implemented at the present time?


Another thing that I am a bit confused with is with these two posts:

Introduce new badge: Mentor (posted yesterday)

Bronze Badge Request: Confident (posted an year ago) (disclaimer: this is my post)

Both of the two posts (which are also posts) seem to be equally negatively received by the community, yet the one from yesterday got a tag added to it, and the one from nearly a year ago didn't.

Which factors dictate whether a post gets tagged or left un-tagged with a status tag?

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  • 7
    This answer kind of explains it. Mods either come upon a feature-request that was negatively received and decide to add the [status-declined], or add it based on a flag raised by a user. Given that it's not high priority (or particularly important), I guess most of the feature request posts simply weren't flagged, and no mod noticed/felt it necessary to add the tag.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 2:12
  • 56
    Like in a normal company? The backlog is so long nobody can ever implement it, but nobody wants to make decisions either. We should introduce a [resolve-later] and in the tag wiki have the explanation: "Resolve never. The idea is sorta good, but nobody will give us extra money when we implement it. We are already the number one in our market and we don't need to become better." Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 6:02
  • 27
    @ThomasWeller [status-deferred]
    – VLAZ
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 6:35
  • 7
    There is also the bug which has the same issue. IMO it's more several, because it's better to fix bug than add new features
    – Elikill58
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 9:25
  • 2
    @Elikill58 for users? Sure. But not for a company. "bug fixes and improvements" is a boring changelog.
    – user11153
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 10:04
  • 4
    If you include duplicate:0 on your search, the results decrease to 4.8k. It's still relevant, but worth mentioning that duplicate questions don't need a [status-*] tag. Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 16:07
  • 1
    I'd hazard a guess that a large percentage of the ones that remain after that filter should also be closed as duplicates as well, if not no closed as no longer applicable.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 16:08
  • 9
    Only ~1700 are still open and have a score of 10 or more and only 1000 have a score of 25 or more. That's still a lot but it's a lot less. Right now you're including something like 2k FRs that were universally disliked and downvoted.
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 16:51
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    Also, there's this process, in case you were unaware of its existence ;)
    – JNat StaffMod
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 16:55
  • 2
    On @VLAZ 's note, status-deferred seems way more appropriate for these old questions the company just doesn't want to deal with soon. Not sure why the OP ignored it completely in favor of status-declined.
    – Nat Riddle
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 17:03
  • 2
    Historically, status-declined seemed reserved either for very unpopular negatively voted questions, things that seem cool but obviously go against the current nature of the company, or both. A few examples
    – Nat Riddle
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 17:10
  • 7
    Gonna just remind y'all that this list exists and also: don't forget to tip your friendly neighborhood animuson
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 20:06
  • 3
    @Shog9 never misses a chance to point out that he somehow manages to decline things and still get a gold badge. ;)
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 21:06
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    I lose rep on every answer, but make up for it in volume... 😏
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 21:07
  • 2
    Well are feature requests even ever looked at nowadays? I don't really think so, the company has its own plan and designs. We get told what is happening as it is being rolled out, we don't get to have a say. If they are not relevant anymore, there is little point in wasting time on bookkeeping. They're all status-deferred. The status-complete tag is very telling too. Bug, bug, support, bug, bug, bug... Yes i see some feature requests, but those are basically bug reports masquerading as one.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 14:32

2 Answers 2

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Did thousands of [feature-request] posts get forgotten, without anyone adding the [status-declined] (or other statuses) tag?

Yes, it's even worse if you consider that many earlier feature requests migrated to Meta Stack Exchange somewhere around 2014 and there they faced the same fate, so it's even a couple of thousands more.

Why is that?

Maybe there is not much gain in doing that for the company. Ask yourself: how does it increase the profit if all incoming feature-requests are properly labelled? Probably only indirectly if at all. Therefore it might not be seen as the most efficient usage of developer time.

... why does it seem so rare to have a status-declined tag added to a feature-request post where the feature clearly will not be implemented at the present time?

In many cases, it's very easy to verify if a feature-request has been implemented, even without a status tag. The status tag information might not add much then. If it hasn't been implemented yet, we could "interpret" no tag as an unofficial , if that would help you.

Which factors dictate whether a feature-request post gets tagged or left un-tagged with a status tag?

Somebody from staff must see it and must feel the urge to act upon it.

Usage patterns I have seen:

  • Status tags get added retroactively, eg. if a feature has been implemented, related feature requests (often there are duplicates or near duplicates) all become
  • Sometimes, if it's clear that the company is interested and thinking about it, they may (but do not have to) add . That can also happen up to 10 years after the feature request has been created.
  • Sometimes, if it's clear that the company is not interested, they may (but do not have to) add or .

Example:

Use "score" instead of "votes" in the list of questions did not have a status for about nine years, then got last November and just now tagged (and ironically the solution says that it's not quite done yet, and score is not yet used instead of votes in the list of questions).

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  • 2
    While certain members of the current corporate structure may be of the mindset, "Ask yourself: how does it increase the profit if all incoming feature-requests are properly labelled?", that doesn't mean we as community members should perpetuate that incorrect type of analysis.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 3, 2022 at 23:07
  • In this case "incorrect" is a matter of opinion. There is no objective measure that tells us whose viewpoint is correct in this context.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 3:41
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    I am referring to Travis J's characterization of the (assumed) analysis by "certain members of the current corporate structure" as being "incorrect". The correctness or otherwise really depends on your point of view.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 6:08
  • @TravisJ "we as community members should perpetuate that incorrect type of analysis." Sure, we can and should ask us all types of questions, but in this case it's not us applying the statuses. Therefore in this answer I concentrated on the mindset of those that do. It could be that they didn't think about profit and maybe were just lazy or forgetful or something else but I thought this to be rather unlikely. You could make another feature request asking for complete labeling of all feature requests with statuses if you like. Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 6:11
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    I guess, my (meta-)point is that labeling someone else's viewpoint as "incorrect" is not a good way to convince them of the correctness of your viewpoint.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 6:15
  • @StephenC - This isn't the only place where that discussion has taken place. I just tire of constantly repeating the same history behind some of this. If you want a broader overview read this, or perhaps the comment set here. To get down to it though, it isn't just me saying "hey, that's incorrect" without any foundation. There is a long, storied, and consistent history backing up the point that corporate values money over community.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 6:49
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    What I am saying here is that we shouldn't start perpetuation that ourselves, or it will be used as a bludgeon against us. The prime decision point absolutely should not be profit when considering community features. Without engagement from the community, this place will fall apart at the seams; all profit is derived from user engagement. If you look at where large social companies failed, it was from a collapse of user engagement, not as a result of a failure to monetize profit from current environments.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 6:53
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While I have some quibbles with the numbers used in this question, particularly since it includes negatively-scoring and closed FRs to inflate the total number that exist, I figure it's worth at least talking through this and giving a bit of context.

The first question I'd ask y'all is - what do you want us spending time on? As someone who's been a highly-engaged user for many years prior to working here, I understand that there's some frustration when you keep putting ideas out there and get nothing in return from a voice you consider authoritative. It also feels really good when you do get an explanation or response that you can understand.

But you know what feels bad? Getting a status tag with no explanation. Because, particularly if the status is , when it happens to me, I've felt really frustrated and like the person who tagged the question doesn't understand the request and you start to assume they're just declining the request without a reason.

As such, we strive to explain declines so that we can show that we've thought about the request and determined that we don't think it's a good solution. As you might expect, that can take a lot of time. It means that I have to read the request, think about it, confer with other CMs or devs, and then create a coherent explanation of why we're not going to do the thing.

That takes a lot of time! We've never treated meta like a GitHub repository where someone can open an issue ticket and expect every ticket to be responded to by the project maintainers - we rely on and appreciate the efforts of our community members to review many of these and respond to them, either by voting or answering or leaving comments. As such, I'd argue that we don't need to respond to many of the FRs.

So, some numbers:

So, I'm down to ~1-2k questions that seem to have good community engagement and agreement and, at this point, my ability to assess the questions as a group is limited without going through each of them individually to put them in different buckets but I'd invite y'all to poke around a bit more if you like. I'm pretty sure some of the FRs are really or questions - it's common for questions to get both FR and discussion or FR and support.

It also seems like at least some of these questions simply haven't been tagged yet but could have been. For example, Adam Lear answered this and even said "I have to decline this" - and yet it has no status tag but someone else took the time to find all of the images and post them in an answer. While this is just one example, it brings in another point -

You all - community members - you do a lot of the work responding to these.

These responses can be anything of the below or more:

... and so there's often no need to have any interaction from staff. I'd be curious how many of these questions really don't need any additional support - though I wouldn't recommend y'all go on a flagging spree to find and flag every well-received FR that should have a or tag - because that could annoy the mods.

I understand that, if you're the sort who really likes things to be neat and buttoned-up, it can be difficult to see the bulk of stuff here as "incomplete". While I wish more things had status tags, I don't think there's a chance that every FR question will ever get one, if only because the bulk of them would be status declined either because they were disliked (negative-score/closed) or didn't have enough support to indicate a change was needed (low-score).

So, how does the team address these?

As JNat wrote in a comment - we have a process for bringing FRs and bugs to the attention of staff (TL;DR, anything with a status-review tag gets pulled into our Jira "Switchboard" for CM review). Three times a week (usually) we triage everything that gets a tag, network wide, and direct it to the best team to investigate or respond. Bugs generally get sent to the dev team associated with the bug while FRs may be assessed by the Community Ops team and then either sent to a product team to be added to a backlog or, if more discussion is needed, sent to one of the CM teams to determine whether the feature is a good fit.

For stuff that we're deciding to decline either during the triage process or once sent to a team, we have someone work on drafting an explanation for why we aren't building the feature. The meta post linked above also has answers for different time periods with data describing how many posts get escalated to us and what our response rates are.

In addition to this, whenever we start big projects we dig through meta posts on MSE and MSO in particular to find feature requests as part of our research process to better understand what the community thinks and some features in that area that you'd like to see. While we can't always include the specific requests, we try to understand what the problem is - what friction are the people who requested and support these features experiencing.

This is why it's of paramount importance for y'all to explain the problem as part of a feature request. Potential solutions are good to have but it's possible that a specific solution isn't possible or simple to implement whereas we can make a small change that will have the same impact in alleviating the friction.


So, to circle back to my first question - "what do you want us spending time on?" - while I don't think we're doing everything we can, I pretty strongly feel that responding to every feature request isn't sustainable - particularly closed and low-scoring FRs. We have limited numbers of team members and lots of work to do as it is and we need to use those hours effectively. If we had double the staff, maybe we could do this - but we're trying to address the gaps by giving y'all a way to bring things to our attention, particularly when they're in areas we're currently working on.

One of the things I would like to do this year is review all of the posts that have tags like , , , and both here on MSO and on MSE so that we can clear out any that were tagged prior to this process and respond to or update the status of the posts. Once this gets completed, all of the questions with those tags currently would be ones we were actively tracking in Jira - which I think will be a lot more useful for y'all, than the status-quo of having a mishmash of the two.


† - Yes, I understand that userscripts aren't always the answer but because it'd be nearly impossible for us to make all of the minute requests possible, they are a big part of our ecosystem for UI customizations and I think there are definitely cases where the community agrees that a userscript is all that is needed.

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  • Thanks for the complete answer. I think that post with accepted should not be count because they are globally already implemented. Also, why don't reply to very accepted post that sometimes became hot ? Specially those with 30+ votes
    – Elikill58
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 17:38
  • 3
    @AnnZen I'm sorry - but I'm not going to spend hours tagging thousands of questions on MSO status-declined. It's a terrible use of my time... and it ignores MSE and other sites that are in similar states. It's not worth our time to put a red label on a question that the community has already said "this is bad" to.
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 17:52
  • 1
    @Catija Then if negatively scored [feature-request] posts are automatically [status-declined], should there be an auto-tagging system?
    – Red
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 17:54
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    @AnnZen I... just don't really see the benefit in taking dev time away from years of backlog fixing real bugs and building useful feature requests... to make it so that a tag appears magically on negatively-scored meta feature requests.
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 18:00
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    Not only that, a moderator could do this programmatically using the API if they are really inclined to, but again, effort seems to be better spent on other areas. Maybe as a side project to observe the capabilities of the API. Programmers after all are a curious bunch.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 18:04
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    @Catija Got it :) By the way, I want to thank you and the rest of the staff for managing this site. I know it's very time consuming, and requires a lot of hard work and good judgement. Personally, I don't really mind the tagging system we have now, I just wanted a clearer perspective on the subject (which you have given me in this answer). Cheers!
    – Red
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 18:07
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    I'm sympathetic to the "do you really want us sitting around adding tags?" argument, but it seems like a SQL query could update those negatively-scored FRs pretty readily in a few seconds... Maybe 6-8 units of time across all of the SE sites ;-). Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 20:14
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    "The first question I'd ask y'all is - what do you want us spending time on?" Well, since you asked, not site/page visual redesigns, especially ones that remove useful data from the page like flag counts from user profiles... -[tag] filters in review queue and more chat functionality would be at the top of my list, probably. Also adding the word "tutorials" back to the enumerated items on the "off-site resource request" close reason. Adding a regex to prevent users from posting questions with the phrase "best practice" in the title is up there too.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 22:14
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    Thousands of feature requests is a far off number with all sorts of issues, sure. I agree it's inflated. What about the features that the team started and then just abandoned? Search improvements (still elastic I believe, from a decade ago? even though it was supposed to be updated)... UX improvements (not UI, there is a huge difference) such as the Question Wizard (which was started and then?)... Community tooling (such as inlining answers from marked Duplicates). Posts aside, what happened to the actual features getting implemented that were forgotten?
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 23:40
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    @TylerH There's really only so much I can speak to because I don't know all of the priorities... but my understanding is that deprecating mobile views so that we can get rid of tech debt are a big part of our focus now (see prior comment about A 51)... we apparently need to get things in better, cleaner shape so that we can start moving forward on things people want that would be more difficult to build with the current format. And, yes, I feel like I've been saying this since I was hired, because I have. We've been saying this since the network-wide design change in 2018!
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 23:54
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    Also, the close reason text doesn't require a dev to fix... that's a weird one to have on that list. If the community feels like it should be there, the community can get that changed... either by having the mods create a new close reason to replace the current one or, if minor enough, by asking me to edit the text... but I'm not going to do that without some indication of how the community feels about it. Also, follow my guide for updating the close reasons. It'll be better for everyone.
    – Catija
    Commented Feb 4, 2022 at 23:57
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    "what do you want us spending time on?" A bit of a rhetoric question? We can't really decide what you spend time on. Otherwise, it would have been quite clear from the scores: No collectives, no new layouts that look worse, instead help with managing the ever growing pile of low quality contributions. I think the opinion of the meta community is relatively easy to extract. Here is an idea: why not taking the 100 highest scoring status-less feature requests and put status-review on them, so they get an entry in Jira and then see what happens to them? If they cannot be processed, nothing will. Commented Feb 5, 2022 at 7:45
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    @Catija I hear you, I know for both sides (yours and mine) sometimes all we can do is just rehash the same thing and hope someone listens this time. A bit troubling, though, are remarks like "deprioritized because [reasons] or "finished" but we didn't really explain sufficiently" and "There's really only so much I can speak to because I don't know all of the priorities..." As the Community Management team, devs should be explaining all their changes to y'all, so that y'all understand them for when we have questions, concerns. [1/3]
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 19:18
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    @Catija Piggybacking off of that, the CM team should really be the ones that are announcing all changes and, to a large extent, vetting whether they should be made in the first place. As the team that interfaces with the users directly (and uses the customer-facing site to a larger extent than other devs), you know what things we are asking for, what things we are reporting as broken, what things we really love or hate. If non-customer-facing devs write up announcements, it leads to moments like "this feature isn't important to me, so I got rid of it, lol made my life way easier!" [2/3]
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 19:20
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    @Catija Which is a paraphrase, for sure, but a direct reference to something that actually happened here not too long ago. I'm leaning on my soapbox here a bit, but certainly things like reshaping entire UIs when not asked for, as an excuse for redoing backend code, should have been project managed by the CM team the entire way through, with the CM team having the authority to say "no, it needs to be this way". How can you guys expect to do your jobs effectively if you are kept in the dark about changes or the justification behind those reasons? [3/3]
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 7, 2022 at 19:23

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