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While I'm generally supportive of new Betas, I feel like a site that's brand new—in this case PLDI, which hasn't had a moderation team in place, and is still working out the 'details' of scope—ought not to be on the hot network questions list.

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While I trust the 'temporary' moderation of the community team's 'fine,' it feels like the site needs to find its feet and scope and have community moderation (of folks who know the subject) in place. It just seems too early to me, even if it's a site with a good foundation.

It's also worth considering that since we no longer have 'prolonged' betas—which would have unfairly penalised sites in long term beta—it might be worth getting a moderator team in place and having them request being added to HNQ as part of the site lifecycle.

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  • Can be automated, just need to add a condition: if (moderators.length > 0) showHNQ(); or in English, can check in the code whether a site has no appointed mods, and in such case exclude it from the HNQ altogether. Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 8:26
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    @ShadowWizardStrikesBack 2023 Community Moderator Election ends in 10 hours :|
    – starball
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 9:16
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    Well that's vaguely why I remembered it has no mods. :D Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 9:33
  • @starball well, it's not like this feature request is going to be implemented any time soon. But maybe one day, in some distant future, beta sites with no mods will be excluded from HNQ and once mods are elected, the site will start to appear in HNQ, and all automatically. ;) Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 9:36
  • Well not in 6-8 hours anyway Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 9:36
  • there might be more trouble when GenAI beta goes public, because of their unconventional voting privileges. I wouldn't be surprised to get issues similar to ones that were there with early Bitcoin beta - if memory serves even some spam leaked into HNQ back then
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 24, 2023 at 11:31

2 Answers 2

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I share your concern but proposed solution seems a bit too hard because it would cut network wide "advertising" of a new site right at the moment when it can seriously benefit of being promoted at sidebar.

I would prefer a softer approach by limiting amount of hot questions from such sites by 2 or 3 instead of default 5.


On a more general note, the very default of 5 questions limit seems to be worth reconsidering.

While checking hot questions list I noticed that besides PLDI, some other sites also have many questions there. When I additionally checked that, it turned out that not just PLDI - 9 (nine!) more sites have 5 questions in the list.

As a result, 10 sites occupy half of hot list, leaving mere 50 slots for about 200 other sites in the network. This feels so very wrong.

I think it would be better to decrease default limit from 5 to 3. Maybe this would also allow us to keep system simpler by avoiding customized limit for new beta sites.


Another worrying thing I saw is unjustified advantage given to questions with multiple answers.

4 out of 5 PLDI questions I saw in the hot list had 4 or more answers - and three of these four questions were stuck there for more than a day. That made me curious about other "over-represented" sites and when I checked, it turned out that most questions from these ten top-hot sites had 4 or more answers (30 of 50, to be precise).

This may relate to concern raised by PLDI moderator in comments here:

I don’t even think it’s a particularly good sample of our questions. Of course, that’s a general problem with HNQ—it tends to elevate clickbaity questions, which are rarely the best quality

I don't participate in PLDI but based on observations on the sites I am better familiar with, it indeed looks like current preference to multiple answers tends to give skewed presentation of site topics and posts quality.

I think if cut off value for hotness score calculation was decreased from current 10 answers to 3 or 4, this would lead to better balanced and more diverse representation of the network questions in the hot list.

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  • note that changes proposed here are technically easy to do and in the same time safe - simply because if (in unlikely case) it turns out that result is not as desired it would be equally easy to revert respective config parameters back to their current values
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 15:14
  • I think my arguement is really - let them find their feet before advertising them Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 7:47
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    @JourneymanGeekOnStrike I think you have a really solid point here and frankly initial draft of my answer was only pointing that what you asked for is easy to implement by just setting per-site HNQ limit to 0. However after pondering a bit I decided that at early beta stage benefits of attracting some (reasonably limited!) amount of new site visitors will likely outweight risks of scope dilution and softened that suggestion a little
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 13, 2023 at 8:02
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    I agree that it would drastically cut down on advertising: I am now a moderator on PLDI, but I only found out about it via HNQ! But I think we do clearly have far too many questions in the list, and I don’t even think it’s a particularly good sample of our questions. Of course, that’s a general problem with HNQ—it tends to elevate clickbaity questions, which are rarely the best quality—and I think it’s still valuable. But it would be good to at least lessen the damage. Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 5:42
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    @AlexisKing your concern regarding quality of hot questions may relate to advantage given to multiple answers; I edited the answer to expand on that matter
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 14, 2023 at 8:28
  • @JourneymanGeekOnStrike I think part of finding our feet really has included bringing in a more diverse set of voices, though. And it's not like we're strangers to advertising as a new site; we didn't get 200+ committers by lurking in the shadows. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 2:52
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+50

Isn't this the whole point of private beta?

We did have a few weeks to find our feet before being advertised in the HNQs: that's the whole point of private beta. And there was only a week or two in between us going public (=being in the HNQs), and us getting mods (that delay being the time the election took).

If community moderators are the issue, I would suggest as a to not start the public beta stage until pro tempore mods are elected. But restricting public betas' access to the HNQs? No way. We earned that.

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    You earned it. You also, to me have the right to choose when You're ready. A simple meta post and a request rather than just "Oh, here's the keys" feels better to me personally. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 2:58
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    @JourneymanGeekOnStrike I just don't really see what the actual issue is; have you run into any instances of questions with questionable on-topicness on PLDI in the HNQs? More often than you do on other sites? I haven't experienced that, at least Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 2:59
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    We've had months and months of definition and commitment and beta to work out our scope. We have a few questions that sit on fuzzy boundaries still, but I don't think anyone on day 1 of public beta would've voluntarily opted us out of public beta on those grounds. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 3:00
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    And with mods, they can kick it out of HNQ if needed - and generally moderators are SMEs on the topic of the site, and have reasonable amounts of network, if not moderation experience. Commented Jul 15, 2023 at 3:03
  • a few weeks to find our feet feels a bit too optimistic. I compared PLDI to some similar sites (narrow scope, technical, doing reasonably well) and it looks like few more months and 2-3 times more total questions asked would be nice to have to claim something like that with certainty. It is possible that at this later point site scope stays the same as it is now but also possible for it to get further clarified or somehow changed in some way
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 17, 2023 at 8:23
  • @gnat-onstrike- And? Why does our scope not being solidified mean we shouldn't be in the HNQs? Feels like those are totally unrelated. If a question has plenty of upvotes and it has answers with plenty of upvotes, chances are it's interesting, which is the point of HNQs. Whether or not it's actually on-topic is purely a problem for people on the site, not random passerby. Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 1:44
  • @RadvylfPrograms it really does. At mature sites I can flag a question asking mod to remove it from HNQ referring meta discussions proving community consensus on my suggestion while at early beta sites there is nothing like that yet - which makes quite a big difference. As for off-topic questions being interesting, well currently official purpose of HNQ is claimed to present site topics to network wide audience, not to entertain passers-by and that's why it would be a problem for outside observers (to avoid misunderstanding, I don't think this means PLDI should be removed from HNQ)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 6:44
  • @gnat-onstrike- But we do have consensus on Meta, tons of it. That might get changed in the future, but there's dozens of questions on Discussion Zone/site Meta refining the scope. Could you give an example of a single real or hypothetical question whose on-topic-ness is at all ambiguous? Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 14:22
  • wait a minute, I don't need to give any examples because I merely pointed that specific claim contradicts purpose of HNQ, nothing more: "Whether or not it's actually on-topic is purely a problem for people on the site, not random passerby". And once again, I am not suggesting to remove PLDI from HNQ so I don't understand what you want from me here
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 15:44
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    @gnat-onstrike- Ah sorry, misread Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 15:51
  • (and no, your site just can't yet have reliable consensus on matters that might be useful for someone flagging for removal of particular question from HNQ - simply because it's merely few weeks that it's present in hot questions, that's not enough even to make a cursory first impression of how this impacts the site, not to mention making solid community consensus)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 15:53
  • @gnat-onstrike- We've been deciding on site policies since the start of our proposal five months ago. We had a pretty solid idea of our scope a month before beta began. All that's changed since is a few rough details that have only been relevant to a handful of questions. I don't know where you get the idea that a site can make it to public beta while still being bumbling around with no clue what is and isn't allowed as a question. Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 16:00
  • site policies and scope are quite loosely related to HNQ. There is one straightforward connection that off-topic questions are expected to get closed which automatically removes them from HNQ, but beyond that there is a large gray area where site communities may decide what kind of content is deemed undesirable for HNQ even when within scope. And to reliably decide on this they need to have sufficient exposure to HNQ and experience in handling these (which is by the way yet another reason why totally removing early beta sites from HNQ would be a slippery move)
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 18, 2023 at 16:14

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