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This happens all the time:

  • A user asks a question.
  • Another user asks for clarity in the comments.
  • The author responds in the comments.

Here is a specific example of where this happened. In this particular case, if I edit the author's comment into the question, it will likely remain closed as primarily opinion based. If I refrain, then it looks like the question is on track to be reopened. It currently has two reopen votes.

I went ahead and made the edit and was challenged for making the question "worse". The way I see it, I only made the question more accurate. Should I have made the edit?

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4 Answers 4

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Let me try to generalize. Someone wrote an unclear question. Then they clarified that it is not a good question. In order to stay open, it is going to have to be edited into a good question. Why put in effort towards editing it from one kind of not-good question into another kind of not-good question?

Perhaps a better version of that particular question would be "how can I tell if I have set the number of guesses properly?" or "Has there been any work done setting the number of guesses according to word length, and how did that work out?"

In general, there is sometimes a decent question lurking behind the opinion based question. If you care enough to edit, why not go all the way to the end point and edit into the question that can stay open?

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    Note that the vast majority of transformations that try to turn opinion based questions into concrete questions (including the suggestions you provided) just make the question "Too Broad". While there are exceptions, in a great many cases the OP really does want to hear opinions, they want to have a discussion, so if you're making such edits you're often turning the question into a completely different question that doesn't give them what they're actually asking for. As for the edit t his meta question is talking about, it at least makes it clear to other readers what's going on.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:14
  • well sure I put very little thought into un-opinioning the question. Someone familiar with the norms of a site, and its subject, is sure to do better if they try. I'm simply advocating that they try.
    – Kate Gregory
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:32
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    But you're doing more than that. You're advocating that they can't do anything else. You're saying that if they can't figure out how to make the question not opinion based that they can't edit the question to at least make it clear. Yes, if they could improve it further that would be nice, but saying that they can't edit it to make it clearer, or that they can't edit it to add the responses to clarifying comments into the question, unless they also solve this very hard and not always solvable problem of making it sufficiently objective is not a reasonable ask.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:35
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    And note that making the edit that the OP made, to improve the clarity of the question, is making it easier for the next person to come along and help the OP phrase the question more objectively, rather than them needing to first figure out what the OP is even asking, and read through all of the clarifying comments, in order to then even start working on the subjectivity issues.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:36
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    In my universe, asking "why put in effort to X?" is not the same as "you can't do X". Please don't put words in my mouth then argue with them. I am saying what I think would be better than editing it to be clearly closeworthy.
    – Kate Gregory
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:36
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    So then you don't think that there's a problem with the OP's edit? Your answer doesn't make that point clear. If you're really saying that the OP's edit is fine, but, if he sees a good way of making a still better edit he should do that instead, that's fine. Your answer seems to imply that anything short of such a heroic edit is wasted effort. I wouldn't agree with that.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:41
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    I do think it's a waste, yes. That is not the same as forbidding it. You're welcome to disagree both with my characterization of it as a waste and with my belief that the effort to make it answerable is not heroic. That's what makes a meta, after all.
    – Kate Gregory
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 20:49
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The primary guide to follow is:

  1. Only ever edit to improve

Should I edit even though the edit makes it more close-able

"More close-able" is not "improve", it's "worsen". So no I don't think we should be editing if it makes it more closable as this is the opposite of what we want.

Either improve it so it's not closable, or if that's not possible or requires OP's input then close it - then OP can edit to fix the issue and have it re-opened if possible.

Touching on your example:

  • A user asks a question
  • Another user asks for clarity in the comments
  • The author responds in the comments

You can edit and take the OP's comments and put them in the question (copy/paste or more likely some re-working), but only if it "improves" it. If the question is unsalvageable for some reason and the edit doesn't fix this then it should be closed, if the edit fixes it then edit ("improve").

It's better to get the OP to edit, as it gets them into the habit of editing (not always of course) but if they're not going to then I'd still edit to add data from their comment if it makes the question more viable. It's not just about the OP, as others will come and read it and try to answer etc.

It really is all about "improve" and "fix", although there are times when the scenarios cross paths:

  1. Don't edit if the post is terrible and needs to be deleted/closed and your edit will not fix it (even if the edit improves it, it's pointless)
  2. Edit if the question is a dupe, as it should stay as a signpost and so good quality is still desirable
  3. Try to avoid trivial edits, unless a substantial fix, such as a single rogue character out of a code block, or a typo is not obvious and could cause confusion, etc
  4. Use judgement, as "most" of the time each scenario is unique, even if only slightly

I went ahead and made the edit and was challenged for making the question "worse". Should I have made the edit?

The question is on hold for "opinion-based". If this is because of the general scope of the question and cannot be "fixed" then I wouldn't have bothered with the edit, especially as your edit did not fix this.
If the edit improves it and the OP could edit and make it not "opinion-based", then perhaps the edit is worthwhile.

Often posts become better from a collection of edits from different users, so your edit = improvement + the OPs edit = no longer opinion-based, = a good question all round.

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No. Edits should improve the question and make it more answerable by the community.

While respecting the author is important, we need to keep in mind that editing is primarily to improve questions so we can build a repository of knowledge. Editing so the question remains open and yet still gives the author a good direction to go in to resolve their problem is always better than editing in order to close.

Teaching them how to ask the appropriate question by example is better than teaching them how to ask incorrectly and have it closed.

I can't think of a good reason to submit edits that make a question inappropriate for the site in terms of the author, the community, or Stack Exchange itself. Who exactly is being helped by this behavior?

So don't do it.

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    If you think that the OP should have asked a different question than they're actually asking, because their current question isn't appropriate and you can think of a similar question that would be on topic then you can ask that other question yourself. Changing the OP's question into a notably different question because what they actually want to know is opinion based, or too broad, or off topic, or whatever, isn't appropriate.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 16:59
  • @Servy Sure, but I'm not advocating editing in this answer. In this case I'd suggest the OP move along, rather than make the question intentionally worse .
    – Pollyanna
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:06
  • It's making it clear to future readers that the question is already problematic. Trying to obscure the fact that the OP is asking an opinion based question, and thus forcing other readers to have to read the comments to find out that they shouldn't bother answering it (or that they should vote to close it) instead of having that information right in the question isn't being helpful. Making the edit isn't making the question worse, it's making it clearer that it's already bad. That does make it better, even though it not making it so much better that it has reach the "good enough" bar.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:09
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    @Servy "This is a bad question. I'm going to edit it to make it worse so it's clear to other users that it's a bad question" - this is unreasonable. Add a comment if you must, downvote it, vote to close, etc. We already have a lot of tools for dealing with bad questions. Editing them isn't appropriate, unless it's to improve them. If you go into the editing queue, are you suggesting that you approve terrible edits if they help you achieve your goal of getting a question closed? I hope not.
    – Pollyanna
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:13
  • The edit is improving the question. It's making the question better than it was. It is improving the experience of all of the future readers of this question. That's exactly what edits are for. The fact that the question can't be edited into a question that's actually a quality question is unfortunate, but making an edit like this will both help the question be moderated as appropriate given its current problems, and will help the OP and others in working to address those problems. Demanding that all future readers read through the comments to figure out the real question isn't helpful.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:18
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    @Servy When you come upon a person who's window is cracked, you don't shatter it further to "clarify" the author's intent so anyone passing by knows the state of the window. We will just have to accept that we disagree on what constitutes an "improvement".
    – Pollyanna
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:26
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    That analogy doesn't apply at all. Why do you think that it's so much better to have a vague question that doesn't even make sense is better than a very clear question that doesn't belong on the site, where the reader is forced to read the comments to figure out what the question is actually asking? One of the main purposes of edits is to move relevant information from the comments into the post. And it's not like the edit is turning a good question into a bad question. It's turning a terrible question into a slightly less terrible question.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 17:34
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Yes, it's appropriate to edit the OP's answers to clarifying questions into the question, even if the result of making the question clear is making the question clearly bad. Ideally the OP will strive to further improve their question, but trying to obscure the fact that the question is opinion based (or whatever other problems it might have) by leaving it unclear is not useful.

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    The OP is not the only one who can strive to make a question better. Also, the question is not opinion based, the OP merely invited a discussion in a comment. It's bad enough that a question gets closed because of a comment on that question. I tried to re-open the question with new arguments and in response to that, the question was edited to make it less suitable to the SE format. That is hardly constructive, neither towards the OP nor towards future visitors.
    – freekvd
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 18:05
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    @freekvd The question was opinion based even before the edit, it just wasn't as obvious to the reader that (or why) it was opinion based. The edit clarified the meaning of the question, making it obvious (rather than it being obscured) that the question was opinion based all along. If you want to have a completely different question than what the OP is actually asking about that isn't actually opinion based, then go ahead and ask your own new question.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 24, 2015 at 18:09

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