1

Multiple lawsuits have been filed relating to training of generative AI models on copyright protected works. A recent suit seems to focus particularly on this aspect. It seems there could also be a case that the output is infringing (the neural nets were "overfitted" ... The labels see this as straight-up infringement), but please ignore that possibility for the purposes of this question.

In legal action coordinated by industry body the Recording Industry Association of America, Sony, Warner Brothers, Universal, and others have filed suit against Uncharted Labs [PDF], which develops Udio, and Suno [PDF] in New York and Massachusetts respectively.

Both cases focus on the same fundamental charge, that the upstarts used copyrighted music without permission to train their neural networks. It's a similar claim that has been filed against OpenAI, who has been accused of using news articles and other sources to train ChatGPT without explicit permission.

My understanding of this argument is that while Udio and Suno may have had a licence to listen to the music they did not have a licence to train an AI with the music. Both listening to the music and training an AI require the creation of an in memory copy of the music, and it is the creation of the copy for AI training that is the unlicensed activity that is infringing the copyright of the plaintiffs.

If we consider the hypothetical where this company wrote their own software in a low level language like C. This includes their music player and their training algorithm, both tools use the same memory location for the music, and all data is provided to the two algorithms by pointer. In this way the developers are certain that the training process never creates a separate copy of the work, it only ever reuses the copy that was created for the developer to listen to music.

Assuming the developer admits that they created the software for this exact purpose, and the plaintiffs accept the defendants were licenced to create a copy to listen to and there is no copy is created by the unlicensed training process, would any infringement have taken place in the training process?

3 Answers 3

0

In a comment, you ask

Copyright law restricts certain things, like making a copy. If you do not do one of those things how are you in violation of copyright law?

A license is permission to make a copy (or to do something else that is protected by copyright law); typically this permission is granted subject to certain conditions or restrictions. If you violate the conditions or exceed the restrictions then you have invalidated the permission you were granted.

6
  • Can I clarify if you are talking about explicit conditions or restrictions? So if I buy a CD and the licence says nothing about machine learning woudl such a tool as described above be an infringement?
    – User65535
    Commented Jun 25 at 14:02
  • 1
    @User65535 you don't get a license when you buy a CD. You get a physical copy of the music.
    – phoog
    Commented Jun 25 at 14:05
  • My understanding is that when you physically buy a CD you get a licence for personal use, that is how you are allowed to play it. That requires making an in memory copy.
    – User65535
    Commented Jun 25 at 14:29
  • 1
    @User65535 The in-memory copy is transient and necessary for use of the CD, and is considered fair use that doesn't require permission. You need a license for other uses.
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 25 at 15:50
  • 1
    @User65535 the law on physical audio recordings is based on older technology such as phonographs. Look at an audio CD: do you see a license? No. There is an implicit right to play it that does not depend on a license.
    – phoog
    Commented Jun 25 at 19:05
0

"The developer admits that they created the software for this exact purpose" — "that purpose" being to use the copy they put into memory in order to train.

That being the case, they can no longer say that they are making the copy solely to listen to it. When they copy the song into memory they are also doing so with a purpose outside of the terms of the licence. And then they go ahead and actually do those things.

So, taking your facts as follows:

  • Y holds the copyright to the song
  • in order to get the song into memory, X had to make a copy
  • Y licenced X to copy the song into memory only for the purpose of listening to it
  • X copied the song into memory with a purpose of training on it and trained on it

then the copy was not licenced, and would be a prima facie infringement (subject to a fair use or fair dealing defence).

4
  • Can I clarify if the "only" needs to be explicit?
    – User65535
    Commented Jun 25 at 14:08
  • I suspect that this is correct but leaves the big question unanswered. I haven't followed the AI copyright litigation very closely at all, but it seems like there would be a very powerful argument that these applications are transformative and therefore fair use, at least in the United States. I'd love to read more if you or anyone else knows how that argument is faring.
    – bdb484
    Commented Jun 25 at 20:23
  • @bdb484 I think it has not got to court yet, and I think it is a very thin thread on which to place all creative IP.
    – User65535
    Commented Jun 25 at 21:57
  • @bdb484 this is at the heart of several high profile actions still in their early stages. None have even reached motion to strike yet.
    – Jen
    Commented Jun 26 at 0:23
-2

Headline question answer: no, Body question answer: yes

the instant you step outside your licence agreement, the copy is in violation of copyright law.

3
  • Can you illustrate how? Copyright law restricts certain things, like making a copy. If you do not do one of those things how are you in violation of copyright law?
    – User65535
    Commented Jun 25 at 10:48
  • 2
    @User65535 No one is arguing that they didn't make a copy. When the copyright owner gives you permission to make a copy (this is the "license"), it can be qualified by the use that copy is put to.
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 25 at 15:47
  • 1
    This is preposterously false.
    – bdb484
    Commented Jun 25 at 20:20

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .