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Raavya (12th-13th centuries) writes that as it is no longer the case that folks recline on couches when eating (as was common during the Greco-Roman period) one should eat upright at the table.

Hagaos Maimoniyos argues.

Folks nowadays all "lean".

Raavya's argument seems to be quite compelling.

The takanah ostensibly is to comport oneself in a regal manner (דרך חירות). It affects everything from how the table is set to the dilution of the wine.

At the time of the Talmud it was also expressed via הסיבה.

I don't believe it was formulated as a takanah to lean (and even if it was we'd presumably follow the reasoning and adjust accordingly).

Should that cease to be the norm for דרך חירות then we should follow whatever is considered aristocratic mealtime behavior which nowadays is eating seated upright at a table.

It's one thing to eat on a bed or couch as they did then (which I'd still argue negates the current iteration of דרך חירות) but to eat on a chair and lean onto something solid or worse an air lean seems to be neither here nor there.

How is leaning nowadays not a negation of דרך חירות (just like we don't dilute our wine anymore and if we did it would be a negation of דרך חירות)?

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    Are you asking us to adjudicate between the Raavya and Hagaos Maimoniyos?
    – shmosel
    Commented Apr 10 at 22:23
  • @shmosel Leaning seems to be be the conservative approach however when one thinks into it Raavya's reasoning seems solid. I'm asking for a compelling explanation that explains the status quo in the face of his logic.
    – Nahum
    Commented Apr 10 at 22:32
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    "I don't believe it was formulated as a takanah to lean (and even if it was we'd presumably follow the reasoning and adjust accordingly)." You have no basis for this. The question of rabbinic enactments that may seem inapplicable is much broader than this case.
    – Double AA ♦
    Commented Apr 10 at 22:54
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    "or worse an air lean" No one considers that valid so not sure why you bring it up. For any law there will be people who joke around and don't follow it.
    – Double AA ♦
    Commented Apr 10 at 22:56
  • I use an armchair and I lean in that and I feel proper free.
    – Yehuda
    Commented Apr 15 at 13:04

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Rav Shlomo zalman Aurbach learns we argue on Ravya because eventhough the reason for the gzeura was batul the gzeira isnt batul. Thats why we still have a mitzva to lean. Rav Dovid Feinstien learns that leaning intrinsically shows freedom.

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  • Thank you Shlomy. The reason I have a hard time with these svaros is that as for R SZ a) maybe the ikkar takanah was derech cheirus (as is mashmah in Rambam chometz umatzah 7:6-7) b) even if heseibah is the main event but as derech cheirus is the power behind the throne it should ostensibly swivel to another manifestation as the taam is most definitely still very much alive. As for R Dovid, perhaps leaning back in ones chair is a sign of cheirus and leisure however leaning to the side during a meal not so much.
    – Nahum
    Commented Apr 11 at 2:45

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