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I've watched quite a few high level tournaments with Kazuya, and something I noticed is that his Dair is never used. It sort of seems like it would be useful for punishing aerials, or getting back to the stage when thrown up, or something. I'm sure there's a good reason for it, I'm just curious what it is. Is it so highly punishable that it's not ever worth using?

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  • Where do you think it should be used? You talk about punishing aerials, I guess you’re thinking to use it while in disadvantage state above the opponent?
    – scohe001
    Commented Sep 5, 2022 at 19:13
  • ya that was sort of what i was thinking, although the end lag makes it risky. I've seen several high level players use him and none of them used his dair, which made me wonder if there was something I was missing that made it totally useless.
    – Millard
    Commented Sep 5, 2022 at 19:40
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    I feel this can't be answered with facts. Why someone doesn't use this character's move could vary between the players and all those reasons would likely be subjective. Also, just because you haven't ever seen the move used, doesn't mean it never has or never will be.
    – Timmy Jim ♦
    Commented Sep 7, 2022 at 15:59
  • uh, did you mean to post this comment on this question? cause that's not my question.
    – Millard
    Commented Sep 7, 2022 at 19:15
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    @TimmyJim and other close voters: "Dair" here refers to a specific move / input for the character ("down air/aerial"), and not the character itself. I think it's a fair question to discuss strengths and weaknesses of a character's move.
    – Schism
    Commented Sep 8, 2022 at 2:41

1 Answer 1

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Short answer

It's bad.

Longer answer

  • Slow startup
    • 17 frame startup is very slow. This means it's pretty useless to use in disadvantage state. You won't be able to quickly stuff out any aerials with it and your opponent will be able to see it coming a mile away.
  • Looooot of landing lag
    • 35 frames of endlag is extremely bad. And because the move drops you, that's something you'll always be dealing with.
  • Pretty meh damage
    • Only 6-15% dmg (based on whether you hit sweet or sour spot hitbox) is pretty average. So there's no real payoff for landing the move to begin with.

Compare those numbers to Kazuya's other aerials

Metric Nair Fair Bair Uair Dair
Startup (frames) 8 8 11 4 17 (!)
Landing Lag (frames) 7 10 10 8 35 (!!)
Base Damage (percent) 6-11% 10-13% 10-16% 12% 6-15%

*Frame data pulled from ultimateframedata

Dair has you taking a big risk--slow startup and very vulnerable--for not all that much payoff. What do you get if you actually land the move? Your opponent takes 6-15% and is put in a disadvantage state, sure, but you're stuck with so much lag when you land, that they can already reset neutral by the time you act again. And that's best case.

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  • wow I knew it had pretty bad lag but I didn't know it was that bad. Makes me question why the move even exists in the first place aside from looking cool XD Exactly the answer i was looking for, thanks.
    – Millard
    Commented Sep 9, 2022 at 1:36
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    @Millard the startup/landing lag is the same or similar for most of this flavor of Dair (Corrin’s, Bowser’s, Sheik’s, Zero Suit’s, Greninja’s, etc.). Some of them can be worth it if you can get something off the hit (Greninja’s can combo, Zero Suit’s spikes even if you hit sour spot, etc.). But Kazuya’s just has no upside.
    – scohe001
    Commented Sep 9, 2022 at 2:59
  • Shows how much I know about frame data lol.
    – Millard
    Commented Sep 9, 2022 at 3:32

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