Will MacOS 15 drop support for Intel?

[rin67630]

BTW more and more web pages stopped working with safari.

I used Firefox without issues. Never could bare Safari.

Fotos app doesn’t support newer image formats like RAW.

RAW is not a newer image format: indeed it is quite old. I stopped using Fotos –with great relief–, as I stopped using an iPhone.

Imessage doesn’t support new emojis it only displayed boxes.

I did only use iMessage very occasionally. New emojis were never nor my focus, neither the one of my contacts.

iPhone 14 was not supported by iTunes anymore

i did not use an iPhone any more.

Thats only from someone with very light usage.

I would not describe myself as using my Laptop very lightly, even more the exact opposite.
Just maybe more rationally.

 

[fisherking]

There are other apps much more important than whatsapp which don’t run in a browser. BTW more and more web pages stopped working with safari.
Fotos app doesn’t support newer image formats like RAW. Imessage doesn’t support new emojis it only displayed boxes.
iphone 14 was not supported by iTunes anymore I could transfer music but the covers were messed up.
Thats only from someone with very light usage.

which apps? which webpages? and if you can't use raw images, or see newer emojis... how is that different than it was a year ago? and do you mean the 'music' app? not sure why your covers were messed up (but things like this happen)

 

[dmccloud]

There are other apps much more important than whatsapp which don’t run in a browser. BTW more and more web pages stopped working with safari.

You left out "older versions of Safari" - very important distinction that needs to be made there. I have yet to encounter a web page that does not work with the current version of Safari.

Fotos app doesn’t support newer image formats like RAW.

Since when is RAW a "new" image format? The first RAW format (TIFF/EP) was created back in 2001, with DNG and Sony RAW created in 2004.

iphone 14 was not supported by iTunes anymore I could transfer music but the covers were messed up.
Thats only from someone with very light usage.

Unless you're on Windows, iTunes is not even an available app, let alone supported. It's not a surprise that an app no longer supported can't support devices released several years AFTER the app was replaced.

 

[conmee]

As it stands, if Sonoma is the final macOS to support Intel, that still gives me 2 1/2 more years of support and I won't have to deal with Microsoft or Intuit or Parallels telling me I need to upgrade my OS in order to use their software. For me, I'll be thankful if macOS 15 supports my 2019 MBP. My current workflow requires x86 Windows 10/11 virtual machines for now. If macOS 15 supports my machine, that means I don't have to make a decision on a new laptop for 3 1/2 more years. By then maybe my requirements change and moving over to an M5/M6/M7 will be no problem or maybe ARM Win11 becomes a viable alternative for me.

Overall, I'm not worried about when support drops, but if macOS 15 ends up being the end of the line for my Intel MBP. I'll have got at least 8 years of productive use out of this MBP by that time, and that's fantastic considering I used to upgrade my computer pretty much every year from 1995 to 2019.

 

[Torty]

As it stands, if Sonoma is the final macOS to support Intel, that still gives me 2 1/2 more years of support and I won't have to deal with Microsoft or Intuit or Parallels telling me I need to upgrade my OS in order to use their software. For me, I'll be thankful if macOS 15 supports my 2019 MBP. My current workflow requires x86 Windows 10/11 virtual machines for now. If macOS 15 supports my machine, that means I don't have to make a decision on a new laptop for 3 1/2 more years. By then maybe my requirements change and moving over to an M5/M6/M7 will be no problem or maybe ARM Win11 becomes a viable alternative for me.

Overall, I'm not worried about when support drops, but if macOS 15 ends up being the end of the line for my Intel MBP. I'll have got at least 8 years of productive use out of this MBP by that time, and that's fantastic considering I used to upgrade my computer pretty much every year from 1995 to 2019.

Just checked how old my productive machine is: HP G3 is from 2016. 8GB Ram and 128 GB SSD 😆
Almost all work is done via cloud so no big HD needed.

 

[rin67630]

You left out "older versions of Safari" ... Unless you're on Windows, iTunes is not even an available app

Psst: Torty is on Mojave: only an older version of Safari will run and iTunes is available.

 

[theorist9]

millions of people work on older OSes, older versions of office, ad infinitum. and life goes on (and all is well).

Yes, and I happen to be one of them. I keep my 2014 15" MBP on High Sierra because I need iTunes to sync my iPod.

well, then you won't update an app (that requires a silicon processor). then, one day, when you're ready, you'll move to a new mac.

Yet, having said that, the above statement misses something important: There are many apps that you have to update in order to keep using them. Not updating these apps isn't a recipe to keep them working.

For example, the latest version of Kindle that runs on my 2014 MBP will no longer connect to the Kindle store. And if you want to keep using Turbo Tax each year, you have to get the new version, and that only runs on a currently-supported OS.

That's life, of course. Which is why I also have newer Macs. But if some of those apps are important to you, and you can't afford a newer Mac, and don't feel tech-savvy enough to mess with Open Core, all is not well. Which is also part of life.

 

[Torty]

You left out "older versions of Safari" - very important distinction that needs to be made there. I have yet to encounter a web page that does not work with the current version of Safari.


Since when is RAW a "new" image format? The first RAW format (TIFF/EP) was created back in 2001, with DNG and Sony RAW created in 2004.


Unless you're on Windows, iTunes is not even an available app, let alone supported. It's not a surprise that an app no longer supported can't support devices released several years AFTER the app was replaced.

Too new for photos app in Mojave.

 

[rin67630]

And if you want to keep using Turbo Tax each year, you have to get the new version, and that only runs on a currently-supported OS.

... on Windows 10 with no frills on 15 years old machines too.

 

[throAU]

Certainly not.

The niche for the last Intel Mac Pro is too significant. Apple Silicon is good, but its not able to compete with a properly expanded Mac Pro from 2019 yet, particularly if the end user workload needs a heap of ram or high throughput GPU compute.

The situation with switching TO intel was a bit different, PPC was niche, obscure, didn't work with commodity hardware, etc. The intel machines, particularly the 2019 Pro DO work with standards PC expansion cards and in some ways currently going to an apple silicon Mac Pro could be a downgrade depending on your workload.

 

[loby]

Reading a number of posts, I see confusion between Apple providing support for Intel Macs and Intel Macs being able to receive new features and functionality (New versions of Mac OS).

Apple has always provided support (mainly security updates) to older versions of Mac OS. When Apple says it will support Intel Macs then this is all it is signing up to. It does not necessarily mean that Apple will make future versions of Mac OS available to Intel Macs.

Apple has recently been aggressively dropping support for Intel Macs in its OS X compatibility list. Last year if you wanted to official run Sonoma, you need a 2019 Intel Mac, something with Apple Silicon, or something with an Apple T2 chip.

Already there is a list of certain Mac OS functionality that requires a Apple Silicon Mac.

• The "Presenter Overlay" mode for video calls.
• Game Mode, which promises to limit background tasks and reduce Bluetooth latency.
• High-performance mode in the Screen Sharing app.
• Getting rid of the "Hey" in "Hey Siri."
• Running games built with the Game Porting Toolkit.
• Running iOS/iPadOS apps.
• Spatial Audio in FaceTime when using AirPods.
• The 3D globe and more detailed renderings of cities in Apple Maps.
• On-device voice dictation, with no Internet connection required and no time limit.
• Portrait Mode in FaceTime.
• Live Captions transcription in FaceTime or any other app.
• "Reference mode" with the 12.9-inch M1 iPad Pro, which lets you use your iPad "as a secondary reference display" in Sidecar mode.
• Inserting emoji using voice dictation.

Personally I would only put Mac OS 15 70% likely to support Intel Machines and if it does then the compatibility list will be again aggressively restricted to Intel Macs less than 3 years old.

Mac OS 16, IMO will be Apple Silicon Only

My intel MacBook Pro 2018 still runs macOS Sonoma natively and expect one more OS before its end.

That would be 7 years worth of OS updates, as expected.

 

[avz]

Google is your friend... 😁

"You can lead a man to wisdom, but you cannot make him wise."

...make him "Google wise".

 

[theorist9]

You left out "older versions of Safari" - very important distinction that needs to be made there. I have yet to encounter a web page that does not work with the current version of Safari.

My experience with web pages is different, and has been for a while. [I run Monterey in a 2019 i9 iMac, and always keep Monterey and Safari updated.]

For instance, I has a serious issue with the 3D embed on NASA's WhereIsWebb site (in June 2022, with the then-current version of Safari), in which not only Safari, but my entire computer, froze for several seconds. And this was repeatable. This did not occur with Firefox, Chrome or Edge.

And more recently, I've been having increasing issues with Safari 17. See:

Why does Safari freeze scrolling while other browsers do not?

I'm running MacOS Monterey 12.7.4 with Safari 17.4 in a 2019 27" i9 iMac. Starting several months ago, I've regularly encountered scrolling freezes in Safari—where the page becomes unresponsive to scrolling. I read the NY Times daily, so I often encounter it there. I'm aware that many...

forums.macrumors.com

Others have observed issues as well:

Websites that don’t work with Safari - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

But if we expand from merely viewing web pages to using web-based apps, then we find both apps where the developer explicitly tells you they don't support Safari (e.g., https://help.labster.com/en/articles/3531124-media-won-t-work-or-red-screen-in-safari says: "we don't support Safari"), and ones where, while it's offically supported, their technical staff will recommend against it, suggesting Chrome or Firefox instead.

This is not surprising. Safari uses the WebKit engine, while Chromium-based brosers (Edge, Brave, Vivaldi, Opera, others) use Blink, and Firefox uses Gecko. If a company wants to reduce testing costs (as most do), they're probabably going to do their most thorough testing using Blink and Gecko, giving WebKit the short shrift (unless they expect heavy use of the app by iPhone or iPad users).

 

[Basic75]

Since when is RAW a "new" image format? The first RAW format (TIFF/EP) was created back in 2001, with DNG and Sony RAW created in 2004.

More importantly, RAW is not "a" image format. It is a class or group of several different image formats. Some are newer while others have been around for a long time.

 

[Basic75]

That would be 7 years worth of OS updates, as expected.

Especially with the last Intel Mac still being sold until, when was it? Last year? I can't imagine Intel support being dropped in macOS 15 either.

 

[chevyboy60013]

Hopefully Apple does not make it too difficult to get macOS 15 to work on unsupported hardware like sonoma is on my mid 2010 MacBook pro. However if macOS 15 won't be able to be patched, I have no issues with Sonoma. It would just be nice to be able to keep using a classic looking MacBook pro with the lit apple on the lid and be running the latest version of macOS .

 

[RumorChaser]

Microsoft did not do that for technical reasons.
You can just bypass the test during installation and everything works perfectly.
I suppose they did it on the pressure from their PC manufacturers customers, who wanted a boost of their sales on new hardware.

That is a very poor representation of the facts. The 8th gen Intel & AMD zen 2 processors come with a new instruction set extension related to virtualization that is being utilized by Windows for virtualization based security. Virtualization based security is not mandatory but is the default. While you can work around installation with some registry hacks, it does not change the fact that virtualization based security would either be turned off or perform poorly on older Intel machines.

That is not much different from using OCLP to work around the installation restriction for recent MacOS on older Macs (other than the skill needed, OCLP required more instruction reading). There are some MacOS features that use Metal 2/3, AVX, etc that would be broken on older Macs, but most things can work perfectly otherwise. You can make an equal claim that Apple did not kill older Mac software support for technical reasons.

Not supporting older machines is always a business decision regardless of company involved. Technical teams can workaround any technical issues based on business decisions. If Jobs said he wanted Power Macs to run macOS 10.13, you can bet some engineer will make it happen.

 

[rin67630]

That is not much different from using OCLP...

It is –yet– fundamantally different.
While OCLP requires to patch the UEFI to inject replacement drivers and simulate newer hardware, the Windows hardware requirement are –yet– only a software check during the installation procedure.
Once installed, Windows does not work differently.
That might change without notice, but it is yet basically different.

 

[juanjoseluisgarcia]

I wonder if Apple will drop support for Intel Macs this year from the upcoming macOS? Now that most Apple computers have their thrid generation of M-series chips, I wouldn't be surprised.

Probably, at the very least, they'll ditch all non T2 Macs and this will be the signal to everyone that this will be the LAST intel version for the supported Macs.

 

[casperes1996]

Probably, at the very least, they'll ditch all non T2 Macs and this will be the signal to everyone that this will be the LAST intel version for the supported Macs.

Is any non T2 Mac supported with Sonoma?

 

[juanjoseluisgarcia]

Is any non T2 Mac supported with Sonoma?

The 2019 27 inch iMac. Is the only non T2 Mac to still be supported in Sonoma. My guess is that will be the next to be axed for that reason, and as a way to drive customers to the M3 iMac, though 24 inch seems like a step backwards.

 

[1014399]

Not the same, but most of new features won't come to Intel Macs.... and my guess is that 2025 will be the last intel release... and 2027 wil kill rosetta

 

[casperes1996]

The 2019 27 inch iMac. Is the only non T2 Mac to still be supported in Sonoma. My guess is that will be the next to be axed for that reason, and as a way to drive customers to the M3 iMac, though 24 inch seems like a step backwards.

Ah, I always forget that. Given T2 rolled out to all other devices 2017-18 it's such an anomaly

 

[rin67630]

even when apple does stop supporting intel macs

In fact, you can't make a real MacPro on Apple Silicon: I mean, a modular Mac extensible with PCI slots and industry standards memory modules. It is completely at the opposite of Apple Silicon design.
As Apple was forced to roll back after the flop of the trashcan MacPro, what if the key accounts put enough pressure to get a modular MacPro again?

 

[sublunar]

Granted, most Intel Macs were discontinued in 2020 so it stands to reason that 2025 could be the last OS to support those Intel models.

Assuming Apple stick to their general promise to support Macs for 5 years after they are discontinued then the 2020 Retina iMac will have support until 2027 at least as it was discontinued in March 2022.

Don't forget that the Mac Pro also lingered until June 2023.

If Apple wanted they could just continue support for intel until 2027 or 2028 - removing models (including T2 in due course) year on year as applicable. The majority of them will be officially past their 5 years by 2025 though.