Mac Mini should be available with up to 64gb RAM

[EugW]

I think the real point is that nobody is suggesting that Apple should put the base price up by $200 just so some of us can have 16GB.

After 8-10 years of 8GB as a base - Apple should, by now, be able to offer 16GB without increasing the price. Just as, over those years, they've regularly improved almost every other specification while Mac prices have barely kept up with inflation, and just as, in earlier years, they've gone from 512MB to 1GB to 2GB to 4GB to 8GB.

Going to 16 GB base is a waste. It's simply not necessary.

12 GB base is the perfect solution here, as it would make both entry level users (or at least most rational ones) and beancounters happy.

 

[bzgnyc2]

In principle, couldn't agree more. Apple does a great job greenwashing, but a bit of upgradeability would keep their devices useful longer.

In practice? Macs (and computers generally) have gotten so much cheaper over time that I don't find it not so painful to buy a new Mac every 3-5 years or so, especially if I'm doing paid work with it.

I think what's happened is that a lot of computers have gone from being like a car where it costs a ton of money up front and then you keep doing things to it to keep it running, upgrade it as necessary, etc -- to being more like an appliance where you use it for its usable lifespan and then you replace it. I think the iPhone also got people hooked on the "get the shiny new thing!" model.

Agree, it's a crap deal for the environment, and frankly way too much of our economy is built around inexpensive and replaceable goods. Framework has done a great job of showing that a modular laptop can work at a reasonable price. I wish Apple would make some moves in that direction.

I agree and there is a logic there. That said, I have family who've had their Honda for over 10 years and it's surprisingly solid. If they manage to outlive it, I bet they'll get at least 250K miles and 25 years out of it. Their washer and dryer is 20 years old and works better than my much newer model.

However, not sure the latest cars or appliances are that solid as it seems manufacturing wants in on what the tech industry does. Which is unfortunate as we figured out how to make these things as solid as we did over the past 50 years only to have to reverse course to keep the economy going?

I also find it ironic that we've finally gotten to a point where computers really do seem fast enough for most things (excluding AI) and the annual performance gains are so incremental that it's hard to justify but we're suppose to replace at least as often? We used to replace our laptops every 2 years because that was at least a doubling of performance and that performance made a real difference in productivity. These days it's more like 10% per year and a doubling wouldn't make a difference to most people anyway (outside video, big data analytics, etc).

Then Apple has shown its power to be a model of business of the future and they could have been a leader for a new way but unfortnately it looks the opposite.

 

[Peter_M]

Going to 16 GB base is a waste. It's simply not necessary.

12 GB base is the perfect solution here, as it would make both entry level users (or at least most rational ones) and beancounters happy.

With all respect, this kind of attitude (though I get what you're saying) contributes to why Apple feel like they can continue to demand their exorbitant prices.

Sure you can release a budget product with less RAM and a small SSD, specifically made for web browsing, Office-work, YouTube and music streaming.

However, even their mid-tier and pro products have low basic specs, compensated with ludicrous upgrade prices. What Apple demands for a 4tb SSD is absolutely ridiculous, as an example. They have yet to lower their SSD upgrade prices, even though the technology has gotten significantly cheaper.

 

[EugW]

With all respect, this kind of attitude (though I get what you're saying) contributes to why Apple feel like they can continue to demand their exorbitant prices.

Sure you can release a budget product with less RAM and a small SSD, specifically made for web browsing, Office-work, YouTube and music streaming.

However, even their pro products have low basic specs, compensated with ludicrous upgrade prices. What Apple demands for a 4tb SSD is absolutely ridiculous, as an example. They haven't changed their upgrade prices in many years, even though the technology has gotten significantly cheaper.

I’m not talking about 4 TB storage for a pro user. I’m talking about 12 GB RAM for an entry level user. From both a practical usability standpoint and from a business standpoint, 12 GB is perfect for entry level.

 

[theluggage]

I’m talking about 12 GB RAM for an entry level user. From both a practical usability standpoint and from a business standpoint, 12 GB is perfect for entry level.

I'm not sure the actual cost price difference between 8, 12 and 16GB is significant to Apple & it could easily be negated by economies of scale. Apple's retail prices are strategic, and don't change much with the underlying tech (the base price of a MacBook Air hasn't changed since the Intel days).

At some point it will become more expensive to make 8GB Macs because the global demand for the lower-density dies will evaporate, esp. if the Windows world is moving to 16GB minimum. (I think you mentioned in another thread that some "8GB" iPads may be knobbled 12GB ones - that would be the reason). Until then, they'll keep on doing 8GB until they're shamed out of it.

The 12GB is really a function of the M4 taking 2 RAM packages multiplied by whatever size of package Apple can get the best price on.

 

[EugW]

I'm not sure the actual cost price difference between 8, 12 and 16GB is significant to Apple & it could easily be negated by economies of scale. Apple's retail prices are strategic, and don't change much with the underlying tech (the base price of a MacBook Air hasn't changed since the Intel days).

---

The 12GB is really a function of the M4 taking 2 RAM packages multiplied by whatever size of package Apple can get the best price on.

Indeed. 2 x 6 GB is very price efficient. As of now, 2 x 8 GB is not quite there yet. Fortunately for the low end, 2 x 8 GB is overkill.

 

[leifp]

I agree with that as far as it goes, but the inability to upgrade RAM is suggestive of inbuilt obsolescence - arguably that applies equally further up the food chain. Can we all be secure in what our needs will likely be in two or three years?

Give or take. I have been on 32GB of RAM since the OG 5K iMac of 2014. I’m on less memory pressure now than I was then… while some elements might completely come out of left field, like a switch to high end LLM coding from being an Excel jockey, most people’s computer use is pretty comprehensible and can be planned for. The length of time you expect to use it plays into it, sure. But 2-3 years? Seems unlikely that a system that you purchase as “good enough“ today won’t be such in only two years time…