Add a battery to Mini

[HowardEv]

"But with the chips being cool, why do you need it to run in your pocket? Wasn't your whole thing that you wanted the heat away from the keyboard? If the heat is already gone, why do you need a pocket puck computer? This is the thing you haven't really given a solid reason for."

Why do you keep ignoring that point?

Heat and fan noise was not the only problem with laptop form factor. Other problems are high price, having to get a MBP when I want an Air, having to be stuck with the screen size you chose, and the most annoying one, having to use it tied to a desk, with wires and docks making it useless as a laptop.

 

[HowardEv]

You can't do both at the same time.

I always use my iMac and my Air at the same time. I never shut down the Air to turn on my iMac. I sometimes use them together, the iMac running my Logic and the Air showing a lyrics or guitar tab.

Before I got my iMac, I used my Air hooked up to a dongle connected to a monitor, interface, and power, and indeed could unplug easily and take the Air to another room. The problem was having wires attached made it awkward to put Air on piano sometimes , and it got hot and the fan came on, right in front of my face and ears.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Heat and fan noise was not the only problem with laptop form factor.''

Ok good so we can at least mark this problem down as solved. Heat and fan noise on Apple silicon laptops are no longer an issue that needs solving.

Other problems are high price,

The M1 Pro MacBook Pros were probably the best value for money laptops Apple has ever made. You can still get them for an absolute steal.

having to get a MBP when I want an Air

You can probably get by on one single M2/M3 Air that's upgraded with the storage and RAM you need for Logic Pro.

having to be stuck with the screen size you chose

This is the same with every device, how is this relevant in the slightest?

and the most annoying one, having to use it tied to a desk, with wires and docks making it useless as a laptop.

Who says you have to use it tied to a desk? You can use it as a laptop whenever you want to. When you want to use it at a desk you can plug a single cable into the laptop to connect it to a dock that's got all the other cables plugged into it. It's a single cable.

You can't be in two places at once. You can't use it at the desk mixing while also using it on the couch unplugged at the same time. You do one, then the other. That's... reality?

 

[teh_hunterer]

I always use my iMac and my Air at the same time. I never shut down the Air to turn on my iMac. I sometimes use them together, the iMac running my Logic and the Air showing a lyrics or guitar tab.

Before I got my iMac, I used my Air hooked up to a dongle connected to a monitor, interface, and power, and indeed could unplug easily and take the Air to another room. The problem was having wires attached made it awkward to put Air on piano sometimes , and it got hot and the fan came on, right in front of my face and ears.

That's a different scenario to mixing in one room while simultaneously looking at MacRumors in the other. And nothing to do with a battery powered desktop that you take around with you...

Most people in this scenario would have their laptop plugged into the dock (monitor/mouse/kb/speakers/interface), and an iPad as their lightweight portable screen to show lyrics, tabs, and to be able to stop/start recordings via the (free) Logic Remote app. My iPad is often on a piano, while my MacBook is docked on a desk, for this exact reason.

 

[theluggage]

Think of it as buying a Mini and an Air, as lots of people do.

Except that's increasingly unnecessary these days since if you have any need to work "on the move" it makes more sense to just buy a powerful laptop & some sort of easy docking solution. Lots of us were already doing that with Intel Macs and even PCs even before Apple Silicon all but removed the performance advantage of a Mac desktop. You seem to have some sort of irrational aversion to laptops rooted in 20th Century tech.

They can even use the Air as the screen for the Mini, wirelessly. The only difference is this Mini doesn’t have a battery.

Which is fine because the Mini doesn't need a battery in that situation - it stays tethered to the mains which is no big deal because it is also tethered to a large display & keyboard, possibly external storage and wired networking, audio interfaces etc. - which is now about the only reason for getting a desktop in the first place. You can even set up a VPN and remote-desktop in over the internet from a coffee shop if that floats your boat.

I currently use a Mac Studio (slight overkill, but there was no Mx Pro Mini when I bought it) because, at the moment, I have no need for mobility that can't be served by my phone or iPad. I've got a dozen things permanently connected to it so - even if it did have a battery - the idea of moving it from the desk and using it as some sort of headless mobile is a joke.

If I wanted a mobile powerhouse, your "Mac Liberty" would still mean getting TB hubs/displays etc. so it could be undocked without unplugging a dozen cables - at which point it would make sense to just get one MacBook Pro to do it all. Sure, that means it's stuck with a built-in display and keyboard - but if you want to use it away from the desk that rapidly becomes an advantage. No system of portable displays and keyboards is going to deliver the usability of a proper laptop in a train/plane/coffee shop/sofa situation. Meanwhile, if you just want to shuttle the Mini between desks just shut it down for transport - takes 30 seconds at each end - oh the humanity!

The only real problem with laptops (apart from turkeys like the 2016 MBP) is when you want to upgrade the CPU and have to throw away a perfectly good display. That's why I was glad to see the back of the 27" iMac - but that was a huge desktop which negated the value of being all-in-one. Laptops pretty much have to be all-in-one... Now, if you were arguing that Apple should produce something like the Framework Laptop which could be upgraded piecemeal would be a more interesting discussion. Or maybe they could offer logic board upgrades (has actually happened in the past). Frankly I'm still skeptical - an M2 Air will still be a useful machine which could be resold or handed down when the M4 comes out, and any older than that means that the design would have changed too much for an upgrade.

But it’s too bad the Mini is still in large case, and has no battery.

The large case gives plenty of space for ports on the rear panel (esp. on the M2 Pro version which has 4 TB ports), space for an internal power supply and space for a large heatsink and large diameter cooling fan which make it near-silent. I see zero point in making something smaller if it just shifts the bulk to an external power brick, forces you to use a dock and would create the same cooling/noise problems that you worry about (rightly or wrongly) with a laptop.
You probably could build a M3 into an Apple TV-sized enclosure - at the risk of needing a small (and hence noisy) fan and not having space for ports (I do have an Apple TV and it's a pain to position because its just too light to stay put when it's got power, ethernet and HDMI cables plugged in) - but there's zero advantage to that on the desktop. Once a desktop machine is small enough to be VESA-mounted out-of-sight behind a display (which the Mini is) there's no point making any sacrifices to make it even smaller.

 

[HowardEv]

Ok good so we can at least mark this problem down as solved. Heat and fan noise on Apple silicon laptops are no longer an issue that needs solving.

Yay

The M1 Pro MacBook Pros were probably the best value for money laptops Apple has ever made. You can still get them for an absolute steal.

Cool. Will probably get M2 Air or maybe M2 Pro laptop. (I watched a video that said M3 is slower for Logic because it doesn’t use efficiency cores!)

You can probably get by on one single M2/M3 Air that's upgraded with the storage and RAM you need for Logic Pro.

Will probably do that.

This is the same with every device, how is this relevant in the slightest?

No, only with all in ones. With Mini you can choose screen later, upgrade separately.

Who says you have to use it tied to a desk? You can use it as a laptop whenever you want to. When you want to use it at a desk you can plug a single cable into the laptop to connect it to a dock that's got all the other cables plugged into it. It's a single cable.

When it is connected to the dongle etc, it is tied to the desk, and precarious, hard to move about to position where I want. Seeing all the cables coming out of the dongle and the dongle straining makes me feel uneasy looking at it and typing and mousing on it. Compare that to not being attached to a dongle, but still being connected wirelessly.

As I've said about 5 times now, you can't be in two places at once. You can't use it at the desk mixing while also using it on the couch unplugged at the same time. You do one, then the other. That's... reality?

I can play a mix on my iMac and look at my Air simultaneously. It is much better than using the Air with the dongle and unplugging from dongle when I wanted to take the Air to another room. It was cool I could easily do that, but it wasn’t ideal.

 

[teh_hunterer]

My honest recommendation to you is this:

If you are using any Intel Mac to record in Logic Pro and it is performing well enough, ANY Apple silicon MacBook will be enough for you. Even a passively cooled one. You can get an M1 MacBook Air with as much storage and RAM as you currently have, and that's your battery powered desktop replacement computer right there.

Then you can get any iPad to serve as the lightweight cheap second screen when you've got the MacBook docked in the studio.

And you can take either one to a coffee shop because it's just a MacBook Air or an iPad. Hell, you can even take both, and use the iPad as an actual second monitor, and second touch screen control surface for Logic.

Apple has a generous 14 day no questions asked return policy. You can buy and try such a setup and return the whole thing if you don't like it.

I found a refurbished M2 Air with 512GB storage and 16GB of RAM for $1245

and a new basic iPad with a folio case (that you can stand it up on) for $728

Total, $1973, and you could easily find a better deal on an M1 Air, or a refurbished iPad, I just couldn't find one in my region's refurb store.

At that price, you've got plenty of room to go bigger with RAM, storage, a nicer iPad, etc.

 

[kc9hzn]

I always use my iMac and my Air at the same time. I never shut down the Air to turn on my iMac. I sometimes use them together, the iMac running my Logic and the Air showing a lyrics or guitar tab.

Before I got my iMac, I used my Air hooked up to a dongle connected to a monitor, interface, and power, and indeed could unplug easily and take the Air to another room. The problem was having wires attached made it awkward to put Air on piano sometimes , and it got hot and the fan came on, right in front of my face and ears.

I feel like an iPad Air (or even a base model iPad) would probably be better for displaying tabs and lyrics, personally, than a laptop of any sort. I’ve definitely used tablets for displaying sheet music on a music stand before. (Screen size/aspect ratio of the sheet music might actually push you over the edge to an iPad Pro, though, just fair warning.) That would also address the fan in your face and wire problem, at least when you’re at the piano. And, of course, iCloud Sync and Continuity will both help you to keep your work in sync between another Mac and an iPad. After getting the iMac, is the only thing you use the laptop for displaying sheet music? Or do you still do work with Logic on the MacBook Air on occasion?

 

[kc9hzn]

My honest recommendation to you is this:

If you are using any Intel Mac to record in Logic Pro and it is performing well enough, ANY Apple silicon MacBook will be enough for you. Even a passively cooled one. You can get an M1 MacBook Air with as much storage and RAM as you currently have, and that's your battery powered desktop replacement computer right there.

Then you can get any iPad to serve as the lightweight cheap second screen when you've got the MacBook docked in the studio.

And you can take either one to a coffee shop because it's just a MacBook Air or an iPad. Hell, you can even take both, and use the iPad as an actual second monitor, and second touch screen control surface for Logic.

Apple has a generous 14 day no questions asked return policy. You can buy and try such a setup and return the whole thing if you don't like it.

I found a refurbished M2 Air with 512GB storage and 16GB of RAM for $1245

and a new basic iPad with a folio case (that you can stand it up on) for $728

Total, $1973, and you could easily find a better deal on an M1 Air, or a refurbished iPad, I just couldn't find one in my region's refurb store.

At that price, you've got plenty of room to go bigger with RAM, storage, a nicer iPad, etc.

Actually, that’s a really great idea. I’ve never used Sidecar, so I always forget that it’s a thing. Basically, the MacBook Air would take the place of the iMac in his setup and the iPad would take the place of the MacBook Air.

If you’re really hung up on screen size (and/or want a very portable large display and are fine using it as the only display, and can afford to drop a few thousand dollars on it), there’s always Vision Pro. It would be overkill for most display purposes, though. (And if you’re working in it for longer than an hour or two, you’ll need to charge the battery, so that’s a wire or an external battery pack.)

 

[YoitsTmac]

When it is connected to the dongle etc, it is tied to the desk, and precarious, hard to move about to position where I want. Seeing all the cables coming out of the dongle and the dongle straining makes me feel uneasy looking at it and typing and mousing on it. Compare that to not being attached to a dongle, but still being connected wirelessly.

If you get the Caldigit TS3, which I’ve suggested a couple of times, you can have a single cable and put the dock out of view with all its connections. You can get a longer thunderbolt cable to even further remove it out of view.

At the end of the day, wireless is a compromise: stability and throughput. Thunderbolt 4 is 40Gbps. WiFi 6 has a theoretical maximum of 9.6Gbps, but more realistically is closer to 2.5Gbps. To maintain a single 4K60 monitor without compression, that’s about 12Gbps. If you want two monitors, or a monitor and high speed storage, wireless will never be a good solution.

I can play a mix on my iMac and look at my Air simultaneously. It is much better than using the Air with the dongle and unplugging from dongle when I wanted to take the Air to another room. It was cool I could easily do that, but it wasn’t ideal.

That’s just like having a second monitor, right? I assume you sit at a desk for an iMac, and then probably just put the MacBook Air on a desk? Wherever the air is on the desk, you could have a single cable to an out-of-view dock connecting you to everything.

But if seeing a cable makes you uneasy, I don’t think anyone can help you

 

[theluggage]

Actually, that’s a really great idea. I’ve never used Sidecar, so I always forget that it’s a thing. Basically, the MacBook Air would take the place of the iMac in his setup and the iPad would take the place of the MacBook Air.

Also, since @HowardEv is using Logic there is the Logic Remote app, which is very handy.

Downside with Sidecar is that you need to use a Pencil to actually interact with it - Logic Remote is finger-friendly.

 

[DaveEcc]

No, only with all in ones. With Mini you can choose screen later, upgrade separately.

When docked, connected to your big monitor, you can choose it later, upgrade separately. When used as a laptop, it has the screen it has, as all laptops do.

(Liberty+screen) + laptop, or (Dock+screen) + laptop. If you get a MBP instead of an Air, you'll have HDMI too, so there's good odds on using the screen w/out the dock if you want.

If you want to record on the go, audio interface connects to laptop. If you only record in the studio, audio interface connects to the dock.

The idea of a serious recording studio having the main computing power be a Liberty that they allow people to take out with them to coffee shops, instead of being studio-based gear connected w/ all the racks of equipment located wherever the cables runs go seems baffling to me, but I've not been into an actual studio.

 

[boss.king]

It’s not redundant, they both get used. Think of it as buying a Mini and an Air, as lots of people do. They use the Mini on their desk, hooked up to monitors and interface, and they use the Air for web browsing. They can even use the Air as the screen for the Mini, wirelessly. The only difference is this Mini doesn’t have a battery.

But, again, to what end? Why not just remote into a mini that you leave at your house/studio when you need it? What benefit are you getting by transporting an extra brick with you?

The more we talk about this, the more it seems like you haven’t really explored the ways modern hardware might actually do a better job than the thing you’ve imagined, but you’ve fixated on this concept for so long that you’re not willing to let it go.

I promise, even a MacBook Air will run circles around your old iMac, and a modern MacBook Pro can do everything you’re imagining this weird brick computer could do and more. There is genuinely no reason for it other than “I thought of it so now want it”.

 

[DaveEcc]

To help drive home the speed of Apple Silicon, let's compare to the fastest Intel options available:

Mac Benchmarks - Geekbench

Single core:
Base M1 (Air, iMac, mini) (8 cores): 2303
2019 16" MBP i9 (8 cores): 1382
2020 MB Air i7 (4 cores): 1202
2020 27" iMac i9 (10 cores): 1650
2017 27" iMac Pro Xeon (18 cores): 1365
2018 Mini i7 (6 cores): 1424
2019 Mac Pro (28 cores): 1345

Multi core:
Base M1 (8 cores): 8107
2019 16" MBP i9 (8 cores): 6418
2020 MB Air i7 (4 cores): 3110
2020 27" iMac i9 (10 cores): 8193
2017 27" iMac Pro Xeon (18 cores): 9692
2018 Mini i7 (6 cores): 5563
2019 Mac Pro (28 cores): 10601

The slowest, oldest, cheapest entry-level M1 chip, the one in the $699 Walmart specials, is faster than the highest-end Intel Mini, iMac, Air, or MBP.

For single core, it also beats every Intel iMac Pro and a Mac Pro.

In multi core, this entry level system is equal the top-end iMac, but not quite as the speed of an iMac Pro or a Mac Pro... An M1 Pro, M2 Pro, or base M3 are required to outperform the highest end Xeon Mac Pro (28 core), and the iMac Pro.

Any M1 Max, M1 Ultra, M2 Max, M2 Ultra, or M3 Pro will all solidly trounce any Intel Mac... Let that sink in. An M3 Air will outperform the highest-end Intel Mac Pro workstation.

 

[trip1ex]

YOu can get a brand new MBP 14" M3 Pro 11-Core CPU; 18GB Unified Memory; 512GB Solid State Drive; 14-Core GPU for $1799.

 

[Global_traveler]

I take my Mini with me now & then, with my IPP as a monitor, using Luna Display. I use a larger battery, which will power the M2 Mini for at as much as 20 hours. It plugs into the 3-prong outlet, which also has USB-2 and USB-C.

 

[kc9hzn]

I take my Mini with me now & then, with my IPP as a monitor, using Luna Display. I use a larger battery, which will power the M2 Mini for at as much as 20 hours. It plugs into the 3-prong outlet, which also has USB-2 and USB-C. View attachment 2392486

Well, there ya go, OP. You can have your cake and eat it too, and you don’t even have to wait on Apple!

 

[Global_traveler]

Of course the iPad only lasts about 4 hours! It’s a 2017 IPP.

 

[steve123]

Interesting discussion.

One idea occurs to me. If Apple updated the mini so that is could be optionally powered from a TB port then that would open the door for a TB dock with an integrated UPS. Such a device does not address the issue of accidental power disconnection but would provide a fail safe against power loss.

 

[theluggage]

One idea occurs to me. If Apple updated the mini so that is could be optionally powered from a TB port

...as long as that really is optional and there's still an internal power supply, which is one of the attractive features of the Mini for those of us who want to use a desktop on, well, a desk. Most "competeing" SFF PCs look really cool until you discover that they need a power brick almost as big as the PC itself, and any cable with a box in the middle of it is a nightmare for cable management.. I certainly don't want to be forced to either buy an expensive dock or waste a potential display/high-speed peripheral port just to connect the power.

hat would open the door for a TB dock with an integrated UPS. Such a device does not address the issue of accidental power disconnection but would provide a fail safe against power loss.

Such a dock wouldn't power the external displays, or any external storage that needed separate power, network switches, NASs... If you get enough power failures for it to be an issue, you really need a mains UPS that can power all your critical devices.

That's why the idea of an internal battery-as-ups works with a laptop, which can work as a complete self-contained system, but not a desktop which - at a minimum - needs an external display to be usable.

One reason for choosing a laptop over a desktop is that if you need a lot of peripherals connected you can plug them in direct without using a dock.

 

[Global_traveler]

M

Well, there ya go, OP. You can have your cake and eat it too, and you don’t even have to wait on Apple!

y thoughts exactly. The M-series processors use so little power. Let it simply run from a TB (or even a USB-C) connection. Then all the components needed to step down from 120v to whatever the bus voltage is wouldn’t be required. The M series run on iPad in this way. Let’s patent this!

 

[michelg1970]

I honestly like the out-of-the-box idea of adding the battery but why would you need to carry the MM from work to home without powering down? It boots in a few seconds anyway unless you are doing some kind of impressive workload which would either burn through your battery in no time or requires a heavier Mac anyway or would need internet)?

And as for UPS functionality, my MM is stuck to the wall behind my screens. If I w(c)ould accidentally unplug it then much worse things would have happened or I was seriously drunk. If power is down then the screens are down too so what use case does the MM have that it couldn't be off unless it is some kind of home server (I use a raspberry pi for that, which is also down if power is out by the way).

Just asking but as said, I like the out-of-the-box thinking. Things are now too long the way they were before and advance only comes from "crazy" ideas at the beginning...

PS I tried the MacBook Air without battery approach. Didn't work. Ordered a new battery for it....

 

[michelg1970]

I take my Mini with me now & then, with my IPP as a monitor, using Luna Display. I use a larger battery, which will power the M2 Mini for at as much as 20 hours. It plugs into the 3-prong outlet, which also has USB-2 and USB-C. View attachment 2392486

Only one question pops in my head: WHY?

If you have an IPP then you can remotely connect to your MM anyway without having to carry your MM and the Ravpower and the cables around. And you could sync files through iCloud or OneDrive anyway?

Alternatively you could leave the MM and IPP at home and carry a MB(P)....

Just asking.

 

[danpass]

I added a battery to the Mini long ago

Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD Sinewave UPS

edited by a mod, interesting, apparently MR cannot take heat nor will truth be tolerated. They also close the PM to replies.

-

 

[steve123]

as long as that really is optional and there's still an internal power supply

Absolutely.