2024 Formula 1 Season thread

[CWallace]

If it was 100% the car, then it should be an even fight every race between both drivers with the best car. But it hasn't been that way since Prost and Senna at McLaren in 1988. One of the two drivers always rises above and that driver goes on to win the WDC and many times the second driver does not even finish 2nd in the WDC even though they are in the best car.

And then you have years like 1996 where Villeneuve's FW19 was clearly much better than Schumacher's F310B, yet he and Schumacher fought over the WDC lead all the way to that fateful lap at Jerez where Michael threw it all away - literally and figuratively.

Number of wins is hardly a "useless" metric, but I do agree it should not be the only metric a driver is graded on. Lewis and Michael raced in an era where the cars were at their safest and most reliable so both drivers were able to compete for far longer than drivers in the 1960s and 1970s could. F1 season lengths have also doubled today from the 1960s.

When Senna died in 1994, it was widely believed his record of 65 poles would never be eclipsed. Schumacher eventually did it (by 3), but he was an active driver for 50% longer (15 years compared to Senna's 10) with many more Grand Prix per year to have a shot at pole.

 

[CWallace]

So it appears Red Bull had put the "wrong setup" on Max's front wing, though I have not been able to determine if this was a mistake (which seems odd) or that Red Bull set the initial wing with an assumption on the conditions that were not present at the start (which I could see happening). They dialed in the "correct setup" during his pit stops, which is why he was so much stronger at the end of the race than the start.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I am not saying he is terrible, but the list of all time drivers since 1950 is long, Lewis won in an era of 1 car championships, to be fair Bottas was nowhere near as good as Nico, Nico beat Lewis, as soon as the regulations change, Lewis is no longer competitive, the win was not down to car, or driver, it was more Brackley PHD's then Lewis..Lewis might never have won a title or a race had he raced in the 70's to the late 1990's.. Number of wins in a useless metric.

Let’s just say he’s terrible and lucky to be where he is and move on.

 

[JustinePaula]

To compare drivers from 1950 to 2024 is unfair and wrong, F1 in 2024 is not the same as it was in 1994, not even close, F1 in 1994 is more F4, than F1, but it was the "pinnacle" of the sport...Lewis won not through his talent or ability alone, that is all I am saying, he thought he had no chance, and others did, and they, not Lewis should be paid more than Lewis for what Lewis did at Silverstone. A goof by McClown maybe brought the win, on the day, had the clowns been absent, and the right decisions made, McClaren 1st... Lewis 3rd/George 4th/3rd??

I really don't think Lewis if you consider the cars, the circumstance, the era prior to the most modern era, how successful would Lewis have been? Would he have survived a full season in 1950? The number of wins, the number titles, the number this or that, totally useless metrics, they cannot and should not be used to justify or compare, Lewis will have a career longer than 10 of any driver combined in the 1950-1960 era..

Maybe Lewis got frustrated and had a toddler aged tantrum, ran off to daddy Ferrari, in a vain hope of some lost dream of becoming a world champion.. Like Alonso is having, F1 is not a retirement home for old men.. Really they are just taking up seats best left to the Kimi A's and the flock of F2/F3 hotshots..

 

[Glideslope]

If it was 100% the car, then it should be an even fight every race between both drivers with the best car. But it hasn't been that way since Prost and Senna at McLaren in 1988. One of the two drivers always rises above and that driver goes on to win the WDC and many times the second driver does not even finish 2nd in the WDC even though they are in the best car.

And then you have years like 1996 where Villeneuve's FW19 was clearly much better than Schumacher's F310B, yet he and Schumacher fought over the WDC lead all the way to that fateful lap at Jerez where Michael threw it all away - literally and figuratively.

Number of wins is hardly a "useless" metric, but I do agree it should not be the only metric a driver is graded on. Lewis and Michael raced in an era where the cars were at their safest and most reliable so both drivers were able to compete for far longer than drivers in the 1960s and 1970s could. F1 season lengths have also doubled today from the 1960s.

When Senna died in 1994, it was widely believed his record of 65 poles would never be eclipsed. Schumacher eventually did it (by 3), but he was an active driver for 50% longer (15 years compared to Senna's 10) with many more Grand Prix per year to have a shot at pole.

I enjoy the reactions from the 100% car crowd on days like last Saturday when Max destroys his floor during an off in Q2 then puts it P4 during Q3.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

To compare drivers from 1950 to 2024 is unfair and wrong, F1 in 2024 is not the same as it was in 1994, not even close, F1 in 1994 is more F4, than F1, but it was the "pinnacle" of the sport...Lewis won not through his talent or ability alone, that is all I am saying, he thought he had no chance, and others did, and they, not Lewis should be paid more than Lewis for what Lewis did at Silverstone. A goof by McClown maybe brought the win, on the day, had the clowns been absent, and the right decisions made, McClaren 1st... Lewis 3rd/George 4th/3rd??

I really don't think Lewis if you consider the cars, the circumstance, the era prior to the most modern era, how successful would Lewis have been? Would he have survived a full season in 1950? The number of wins, the number titles, the number this or that, totally useless metrics, they cannot and should not be used to justify or compare, Lewis will have a career longer than 10 of any driver combined in the 1950-1960 era..

Maybe Lewis got frustrated and had a toddler aged tantrum, ran off to daddy Ferrari, in a vain hope of some lost dream of becoming a world champion.. Like Alonso is having, F1 is not a retirement home for old men.. Really they are just taking up seats best left to the Kimi A's and the flock of F2/F3 hotshots..

I’m guessing he’d have been a water boy or a guy picking up cigarettes buts in the pits in 1950. We need accurate and totally legitimate and plausible comparisons across the decades like this. It would be moronic not to.

 

[CWallace]

To compare drivers from 1950 to 2024 is unfair and wrong....

But comparing them from 1970-1990 is apparently fine since you stated that Lewis would not have been as successful if he raced during that period.

Lewis won not through his talent or ability alone, that is all I am saying...

But talent and ability played a significant role in him winning. Few would say Fernando Alonso was not a talented and able driver, and Lewis beat him in identical equipment at McLaren.

I really don't think Lewis if you consider the cars, the circumstance, the era prior to the most modern era, how successful would Lewis have been?

Nobody knows and nobody cannot know since you cannot even speculate on such a thing.

Would he have survived a full season in 1950?

His racial make-up would not have allowed him to even compete in 1950.

The number of wins, the number titles, the number this or that, totally useless metrics, they cannot and should not be used to justify or compare...

Without some form of measurement system, you cannot measure anything. Intelligent people take multiple factors into account when they comprise "best of lists" across different eras. Many people with historical knowledge of F1 rank Juan Manuel Fangio the greatest driver because even though he "only" won five WDCs, he did so in an era where a driver was fortunate to survive a single season, period, much less to do so without serious injury. Senna is also considered by many as the greatest because of his sheer passion and talent.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I enjoy the reactions from the 100% car crowd on days like last Saturday when Max destroys his floor during an off in Q2 then puts it P4 during Q3.

Hopefully most fans will realise the likes of Max and Lewis and others are talented enough not to just rely on the car. It’s obviously a major factor, but these guys consistently win in their careers because they are good enough and the best of the best. Unfortunately it’s the people who ignore the technical side of the sport that rarely understand this.

 

[CWallace]

In other news, Perez's contract evidently has performance clauses that if triggered could result in him being terminated in 2024 or 2025. One of these clauses is that Perez falls more than 100 points arrear of Max in the WDC by the Summer Break (so after the Belgian Grand Prix). As of the end of Silverstone, Perez is 137 points behind.

Also in other news, Liam Lawson will be testing in the RB20 at Silverstone next week and will also test in the 2022 Alpha Tauri at the end of the month. His current contract has an Exit Clause if he is not signed by Red Bull Racing or VCARB by September(?).

 

[Glideslope]

Hopefully most fans will realise the likes of Max and Lewis and others are talented enough not to just rely on the car. It’s obviously a major factor, but these guys consistently win in their careers because they are good enough and the best of the best. Unfortunately it’s the people who ignore the technical side of the sport that rarely understand this.

Precisely.

 

[Glideslope]

In other news, Perez's contract evidently has performance clauses that if triggered could result in him being terminated in 2024 or 2025. One of these clauses is that Perez falls more than 100 points arrear of Max in the WDC by the Summer Break (so after the Belgian Grand Prix). As of the end of Silverstone, Perez is 137 points behind.

Also in other news, Liam Lawson will be testing in the RB20 at Silverstone next week and will also test in the 2022 Alpha Tauri at the end of the month. His current contract has an Exit Clause for him in September if he is not signed by Red Bull Racing or VCARB.

Well, he is already 137 behind after Silverstone. It’s a tough call for RB. I doubt dropping Lawson or Riccardo in there will be much different.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

In other news, Perez's contract evidently has performance clauses that if triggered could result in him being terminated in 2024 or 2025. One of these clauses is that Perez falls more than 100 points arrear of Max in the WDC by the Summer Break (so after the Belgian Grand Prix). As of the end of Silverstone, Perez is 137 points behind.

Also in other news, Liam Lawson will be testing in the RB20 at Silverstone next week and will also test in the 2022 Alpha Tauri at the end of the month. His current contract has an Exit Clause if he is not signed by Red Bull Racing or VCARB by September(?).

I did hear a rumour Red Bull were considering dropping him in a couple of races time, although that was in favour of Ricciardo which seems wild considering his poor performance not just if late but since 2019.

 

[JustinePaula]

I don't get it, why use drop Perez in favour of a pensioner? Why not use a bloke you already have on payroll, who has warts on his rear from sitting around getting piles.. Why not use the reserve driver? They are there with the rights to race in terms of licence, but just getting bored...

 

[Glideslope]

I don't get it, why use drop Perez in favour of a pensioner? Why not use a bloke you already have on payroll, who has warts on his rear from sitting around getting piles.. Why not use the reserve driver? They are there with the rights to race in terms of licence, but just getting bored...

Because it’s all about selling Red Bull in Latin America. Red Bull Racing has made the decision that Sponsorship Monies overshadow winning a WCC.

One could make the observation that the era of Honda support ending could encourage this.

 

[CWallace]

I did hear a rumour Red Bull were considering dropping him in a couple of races time, although that was in favour of Ricciardo which seems wild considering his poor performance not just if late but since 2019.

He's been doing better as of late, finishing ahead of Yuki in Canada, Spain and Austria, though Yuki has almost double the WDC points. My guess is that because Daniel drove with Max in 2017 and 2018 they feel they know what to expect if they pair them up again?

My presumption has been that Yuki will be released at the end of 2025 and that is why they have been against promoting him to the main squad, but perhaps they are considering extending him again next year if he continues to do well...

 

[CWallace]

Enrico Cardile has left Ferrari and will join Aston Martin next season.

Cardile to join Aston Martin following Ferrari departure

Aston Martin have announced that Enrico Cardile will join the team as F1 Chief Technical Officer in 2025, with the Italian having recently left his position as Technical Director Chassis and Aerodynamics at Ferrari.

www.formula1.com

 

[Glideslope]

Enrico Cardile has left Ferrari and will join Aston Martin next season.

Cardile to join Aston Martin following Ferrari departure

Aston Martin have announced that Enrico Cardile will join the team as F1 Chief Technical Officer in 2025, with the Italian having recently left his position as Technical Director Chassis and Aerodynamics at Ferrari.

www.formula1.com

Papa Stroll is assembling quite the team it would appear........

 

[pachyderm]

Papa Stroll is assembling quite the team it would appear........

That is how you win.

 

[Glideslope]

That is how you win.

Time will tell. I’m just excited for their Works Honda PU. I think AMG and Honda will be the most reliable PU’s in 2026.

 

[JustinePaula]

Drop the volts, stick with horses and sugar fuel, companies like AMG and others could "modify" the engine off standard road legal monsters to run in F1.. That is what F1 should be, you see and hear AMG and other car engines, save up/work hard and buy the brand you like... hybrid is like DVD, it was great but limited.. Lets have the full chat of pure horses.. not some play fake unreliable half and half system..

 

[pachyderm]

Drop the volts, stick with horses and sugar fuel, companies like AMG and others could "modify" the engine off standard road legal monsters to run in F1.. That is what F1 should be, you see and hear AMG and other car engines, save up/work hard and buy the brand you like... hybrid is like DVD, it was great but limited.. Lets have the full chat of pure horses.. not some play fake unreliable half and half system..

Shockingly I agree....

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Drop the volts, stick with horses and sugar fuel, companies like AMG and others could "modify" the engine off standard road legal monsters to run in F1.. That is what F1 should be, you see and hear AMG and other car engines, save up/work hard and buy the brand you like... hybrid is like DVD, it was great but limited.. Lets have the full chat of pure horses.. not some play fake unreliable half and half system..

Hybrid isn’t for ever. DVD was overtaken by BluRay - same concept but with modern technology.

We’ve had AMG cars, we’ve had M cars, also have Porsche Hybrid which is amazing how when you’ve got battery it provides extra boost to a turbo or supercharged engine. The formula one technology is pretty interesting. And cool to keep consumption and emissions down.

 

[pachyderm]

Hybrid isn’t for ever. DVD was overtaken by BluRay - same concept but with modern technology.

We’ve had AMG cars, we’ve had M cars, also have Porsche Hybrid which is amazing how when you’ve got battery it provides extra boost to a turbo or supercharged engine. The formula one technology is pretty interesting. And cool to keep consumption and emissions down.

And both DVD and BluRay by streaming...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

And both DVD and BluRay by streaming...

Well, for some people. The difference is staggering when you put on a UHD bluray vs the streamed version. The bitrate is way lower for both visuals and sound. But yes, for those people who buy super market LCD tvs with a soundbar that is probably sufficient.

 

[CWallace]

So looks like Ferrari is suffering the same issue Aston Martin did last year where the updates are not really helping improve the car. The Ferrari is also suffering from porpoising in high-speed corners.