Timeline for Can I ask my home EU State for a duplicate licence if it has been taken by another Member State?
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45 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:35 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 Regarding the validity of the temporary license abroad, it might depend on the exact form it takes. The directive only says it “may” not be recognised. It would therefore seem to depend on the destination country (but check with your insurance too). | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:31 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 OK, I will. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:30 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed glorious - indeed this covers this question. Might I suggest you add it to the accepted answer? | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:28 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 That's a technical measure to enforce the rules and fully expected under EU law. It's been implemented in French law in article R222-2 of the code de la route: legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGISCTA000006159563 Not that it would make a difference to your obligations, it's not what's blocking you from driving away, the original decision is. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:26 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed the provisory licence is indeed based in French law: legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000026310765. What is not based in French law (or I couldn't find it), was the obligation to change a foreign licence into a local one. It's an EU directive, which seems has not been implemented in French law. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:21 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed sure - I get that. Interestingly I am also barred from entering Canada for up to 10 years, and my insurance has banned me for 5 years. I am punished waaay more than I thought I would be. My whole point across all of this was - I don't mind the punishment - it's, well, inconvenient but I understand it. I don't mind them giving me medical tests and temporary licences, but I was hoping it does not have to be France, but can be the country that I will reside in. I really, really, don't want to return to France just for a driving licence :P | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:17 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 There are no unclear procedures, the provisory license is part and parcel of the punishment for drunk driving. This has a clear basis in French law. I appreciate it's inconvenient but again I think you're taking a convoluted interpretation of your situation but it is really quite simple. It would be the same if your license was suspended outright for a year instead of six months or even permanently revoked. It's not over until it's over, moving abroad doesn't change that. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 13:05 | vote | accept | jaster32123 | ||
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:52 | comment | added | jaster32123 | I strongly specify, again, that none of the legal documents given to me, nor the French Criminal/Highway Code, state that I must exchange my licence. The only thing informing me of this is a colourful leaflet I got, and the EU website - otherwise, the legal proceedings say "after passing your medical you will get your licence back". It turns out that now, I will not get it back. So I am trying to understand, under what legal basis in French law, that is happening. Point me to a law in the French Code and I'll be happy to rest this issue, but so far, it seems as abuse of power. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:48 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed this isn't a case of finagling (a new word for me!) - it's a case of understanding that I have paid my dues, and I want my licence back so I can drive in the EU. Now, I am being punished simply by unclear procedures, which seem to have no basis either in French law, or indeed in Polish law. I would appreciate not being accused by you of hiding details - I'm being as honest as I can, and I have suffered enough through all of this. I just want to finish this story, and leave France forever - I don't understand why thats so complicated to understand. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:46 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed indeed - you're right - I face no issues with alcohol or otherwise so it should not preclude getting a licence. That does not change the fact, that I will be given a temporary one, which is not recognised anywhere else. So, I am given a temporary one, move in 2-3 weeks abroad forever, and am not allowed to drive there since the temporary one is not recognised. I'm not sure what's too confusing - the licence given is temporary, so I am not allowed to use it anywhere outside of France. I can not ask another gov when I have a temporary licence for exchange either. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:31 | comment | added | Relaxed | Also, unless there are still other facts you didn't disclose or you are afraid that you will fail to manage your alcohol consumption, there is no reason you should have to undergo a test every six months for five years. You should only get one after 6 months to a year, at the end of the probation period. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:28 | comment | added | Relaxed | Meanwhile, getting a French provisory license or the whereabouts of your original license change absolutely nothing to your position. Get that out of your mind and stop to try to finagle a way to recover it. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:27 | comment | added | Relaxed | @jaster32123 That's not the question you asked. I have the feeling you're disclosing details one by one and trying to frame the situation as more complicated than it is to escape the consequences. The law doesn't leave you in limbo or create any special obligation to stay or come back to France. For now, you are a resident of France, you should simply follow the procedure. If and when you move to another country, you can take it from there as described in my answer. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:16 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @JBentley When I made the comment, it was not yet stated by the OP that the 4 months had allready expired. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:10 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 That source says may not be recognised, not which isn't recognised anywhere else in the EU. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 12:01 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @JBentley I'm in a bit of a limbo, where, according to the legal docs my licence is no longer suspended, but the French government is refusing to return it (to me or my State), instead insisting I apply for a French licence (no need to take driving tests, just apply and go the the medical commission once in a while). It will issue a temporary licence, which isn't recognised anywhere else in the EU. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:57 | comment | added | JBentley | @MarkJohnson I don't dispute any of that, but it doesn't make the question moot. The question is: "am I allowed to drive in other EU Member States by requesting a duplicate of my licence in my home Member State?", to which a valid answer (by your reasoning) is "no, you are not allowed". This wouldn't be because he is "without a driving licence" per your original comment, but rather because he isn't allowed to have a duplicate licence. Also a minor irrelevant niggle, but OP's licence is not currently suspended. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:57 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | The term 'on French territory' actually does only apply to France for visitors. Once the visitor crosses the border, they may drive again. This source states that this is noted on the DL, which then may be sent to the consulate and handed out. Fahrverbot in Frankreich - Verkehrsregeln im Ausland 2021 | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:27 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Luke because I physically don't have a licence. It was taken by the French government, and it's still there (hasn't been sent back to Poland, won't be returned to me). For all I know, they destroyed it by now. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:26 | comment | added | Luke | This might sound stupid but hear me out. If you can freely exchange your license for one from the state you currently reside in, why don't you exchange your Polish license for a French one now then when you return to Poland (or wherever you plan on moving to) exchange the French license for that one? It's inconvenient, sure, but it keeps the bureaucrats happy? | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:14 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Relaxed the issue is that, if I go the French route, I will be forced to return to France every 6 months for up to 5 years to pass medical examinations (blood tests to see if I am indeed, still not an alcoholic). During this time, I will be issued a probatory/temporary licence, which according to the docs given by the EU site, are not recognised anywhere else in the EU (in essence no driving licence except inFR). In addition, travel to France and accommodation is expensive, out of my way, and I am not likely to get time off for this - hence why I would rather do this at my place of residence. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:10 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @jaster32123 Artical 7(1) (see link in magma answer) starts with Driving licences shall be issued only to those applicants:. 5(a) No person may hold more than one driving licence; So this not should not, but must not by my reading. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 11:02 | comment | added | Relaxed | Yes, the onus is on Poland to refuse to issue a duplicate but why even get into the intricacies of the law? Why don't you just get a French license? You can always exchange it for a Spanish one if you move to Spain. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 10:55 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson no licence should be issued - right? If I understood you though, the onus is on the home Member State to reject the application, and if they should, for whatever reason accept it, then I am not at fault (especially after having informed them the reason of my suspension), right? | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 10:53 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | @JBentley A duplicate licence, is in most cases, only another term for the replacement of a lost, damaged or destroyed licence. That is not the case here, it has been suspended (it exists). A Member State shall refuse to issue a licence where it establishes that the applicant already holds a driving licence; (Artical 7 (5)(b)). Even if that was not the case, the OP is no longer a resident in his 'home member state' that issued the original licence. Artical 7 (1)(e): who have their normal residence in the territory of the Member State issuing the licence. So no licence will be issued. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 8:51 | comment | added | JBentley | @MarkJohnson I don't follow your logic. OP is asking "am I allowed to drive in other EU Member States by requesting a duplicate of my licence in my home Member State?", so why is the question moot on the basis that you cannot drive without a driving licence? | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 8:30 | comment | added | JBentley | @jwenting I don't see any possible way to interpret this question as asking how to break the law. OP is quite clear that (1) the 4 month ban period has expired, (2) he wants to know if he is "obliged", "allowed" etc. | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 7:46 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| Feb 16, 2021 at 14:47 | |||||
| Feb 16, 2021 at 5:09 | answer | added | magma | timeline score: 1 | |
| Feb 16, 2021 at 2:48 | comment | added | Criggie | Do consider that the French would have advised the Polish licensing department about this. So any false statements will likely be picked up and you may suffer loss of license again. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 22:17 | history | became hot network question | |||
| S Feb 15, 2021 at 18:01 | history | suggested | chx | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
rolling a very important comment into the question
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| Feb 15, 2021 at 18:00 | review | Suggested edits | |||
| S Feb 15, 2021 at 18:01 | |||||
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:56 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @chx my 4 months have passed. Now I am dealing with the bureaucracy :) I have paid my debt, and am remorseful (and a tad bit smarter). There is no debate about what I have done - my question is, what now? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 17:36 | history | migrated | from travel.stackexchange.com (revisions) | ||
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:51 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @MarkJohnson right - hence why I was thinking my drivers licence (considering its banned only in France) could be returned either to me at the port of exist, or to my government who would then give it back to me. In short, I was told by the administration "no - must do French licence". | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:50 | comment | added | jaster32123 | I am essentially asking if France has the right to suspend and then destroy a document given to me by my home country. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:36 | comment | added | Mark Johnson | Independent of what the document says, without a driver's licence your are not allowed to drive anywhere. So the question is moot. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:13 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @TooTea I was thinking of reporting it as lost or stolen. Considering the wording of the ban, it specifies "on French territory", so I'm confused as to why they are holding a document issued by another Member State where, if I understood correctly, it is still a valid licence. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 16:06 | comment | added | jaster32123 | @Tor-EinarJarnbjo I would think so too, but seeing just how confused everyone in the process in France seems to be dealing with foreign licences, I'm not sure they did so. How could I verify this? The French prefecture does not answer to emails, and when I call all I get is a "don't know". | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 15:52 | answer | added | Relaxed | timeline score: 8 | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 15:51 | comment | added | jarnbjo | What have the French authorities done with your driver's license? I would actually suppose that they have sent it to the Polish authorities and notified them about your suspension. | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 15:35 | comment | added | TooTea | What does "requesting a duplicate" mean in practice? Reporting the old one lost or stolen? Or are you legally allowed to hold two separate simultaneously valid driver licenses from a single state? | |
| Feb 15, 2021 at 14:15 | history | asked | jaster32123 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |