Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Businesspeople

WP:DSBOSS

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This list is included in more general lists of business-related deletions and people for deletion.

Businesspeople[edit]

Glenn Elliott (politician)[edit]

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Non-notable local official and U.S. Senate candidate. All sources cited on the page are WP:ROTM coverage of his mayorship and Senate campaign. No real in-depth coverage of him as a person, and no indication that either his campaign or mayoral administration were considered especially notable by media outlets. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 17:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and West Virginia. Shellwood (talk) 17:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This page was created on July 13 2024, enough time has not passed to allow for adequate information including references to be added. Lombardb21 (talk) 18:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Law. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2024 United States Senate election in West Virginia as a valid and appropriate outcome for a candidate for the United States Senate. Appropriate information can be added to that page about the subject. --Enos733 (talk) 21:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, As the mayor of one of the largest cities in his state, Elliott is a notable offical. There is a high amount of coverage dating back to several years. The Senate race page does not mention much of the information in this article, so a redirect would not really benefit anyone. Microplastic Consumer (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Microplastic Consumer: Wheeling has a population under 30,000. The fact that it happens to be one of the largest cities in WV is irrelevant, being the mayor of a relatively small community does not establish notability. Please familiarize yourself with WP:NPOL. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to say this when I made the nomination, but I would be in favor of a redirect to the WV Senate page. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2024 United States Senate election in West Virginia: Subject does not have the standalone significant coverage to meet the WP:GNG and does not meet WP:NPOL. Redirect to the election as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 01:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: fails NPOL and GNG. recreate if he gets elected, obviously. Queen of Hearts ^talk 03:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Girish Tanti[edit]

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WP:NOTRESUME. Fails WP:GNG WP:BASIC. Initially, I tried to draftify the page, but there is already a rejected draft in existence. Charlie (talk) 15:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and India. Shellwood (talk) 17:02, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Poor sources. The businessman's work has not been significant and unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded. Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO RangersRus (talk) 22:27, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hubertus van der Vaart[edit]

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Have carried out WP:BEFORE for this unreferenced article about a businessperson, and not found independent, reliable sources to add. I don't think he meets WP:GNG, WP:NBUSINESSPEOPLE or WP:ANYBIO. Tacyarg (talk) 11:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Finance, and Virginia. Tacyarg (talk) 11:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Celebrations4u[edit]

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All the sources mentioned in the article are part of regular brand promotions/ interviews/ PRs. No significant coverage from independent sources. Fails GNG Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 10:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Companies. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 10:54, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maharashtra-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: fails WP:NCORP. Charlie (talk) 17:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Julian Adyeri Omalla[edit]

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not notable per WP ANYBIO guidelines. Possible original research and WP Resume. Old-AgedKid (talk) 09:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Women, and Uganda. Shellwood (talk) 10:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The article currently has three sources with significant coverage, one of which is United Nations News, which refers to Omalla as "one of the most decorated female entrepreneurs in Uganda". Feel free to fix OR/CV issues, but I don't think notability is the issue here.

Kirill Ilinski[edit]

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Fails WP:BIO. Despite looking like a lot of sources, 16 of the 32 sources are simply scientific articles by the subject. Google news comes up with 1 hit. And the company he founded Fusion Asset Management is up for deletion. LibStar (talk) 04:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Science, Russia, and United Kingdom. LibStar (talk) 04:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
delete no independent notability. 16 footnotes by himself and most of the rest is vrom his company. - Altenmann >talk 16:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean by "16 footnotes by himself" - can you provide at least few examples? Tarasrybak888 (talk) 15:18, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the article (and possibly edit or amend)

I strongly oppose the deletion of the article on Kirill Ilinski for the following reasons:

1. Significant Academic Contributions:

Kirill Ilinski has authored over 40 scientific articles in the field of quantitative finance, which have been cited by numerous peers, showcasing his influence and recognition within the academic community.
He has written two notable books, one of which was nominated as the best business book by PWC, underscoring the importance and recognition of his work in the business community.

2. Notable Industry Presence:

Ilinski regularly speaks at prominent industry conferences and events, indicating his role as a thought leader in his field. His lectures at St. Petersburg European University are among the most viewed on Lektorium.tv, demonstrating his impact on education and knowledge dissemination.

3. Research on Climate Adaptation:

Ilinski's ongoing research on climate adaptation, which is not yet public, holds potential for significant contributions to how governments can prepare for climate change. His recent co-authored paper, "TOWARDS THE THEORY OF FIRM'S ESG TRANSFORMATION: ESG READINESS," has been listed on SSRN's Top Ten download list, further validating his active and impactful research contributions.

4. Media References and Coverage:

While Google News may show limited hits, a comprehensive search on Google reveals multiple references and articles in reputable sources such as the Financial Times, Hedge Fund Journal, Bloomberg, Hedgeweek etc. (as well as events where he participated as a speaker). These publications highlight his professional achievements and contributions to the finance industry.

5. Independent Sources:

There are number of independent references that establish Ilinski's notability. For example, coverage in renowned financial publications and his academic contributions cited by other researchers demonstrate independent recognition of his work

If certain sections of the article do not comply with Wikipedia's policies, they can be revised or updated to meet the guidelines. Deleting the article would be an extreme measure, especially considering the potential for improvement and the significant content that does meet Wikipedia's standards. Constructive feedback and specific suggestions for improvement would be appreciated, rather than opting for deletion, which would not only undermine the comprehensive representation of his work but also limit the availability of valuable information to the public.

Also, I want to point out that Wikipedia articles for Kirill Ilinski and the company he founded - Fusion Asset Management where on Wikipedia for more then 10 years, and no one ever questioned their compliance with Wikipedia policy.

The fact that both pages were nominated for deletion (instead of suggesting improvements) just within 2 days, make me think that this is a commercially motivated attack. Tarasrybak888 (talk) 15:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please disclose your relation to the company Fusion Asset Management, per Wikipedia rules of Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. - Altenmann >talk 16:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nirad Solanki[edit]

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There is a lot of refbombing in this orphan article. Whilst a lot of the coverage confirms he bought businesses and bars, none of this is indepth to meet WP:SIGCOV. Just a run of the mill businessman that doesn't meet WP:BIO. LibStar (talk) 02:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Food and drink, and England. LibStar (talk) 02:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rabih Bou Rached[edit]

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Promotional BLP of a successful businessman with no real claim of notability. Various non notable awards and ROTM coverage in the form of interviews and PR profiles. Mccapra (talk) 19:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Lebanon. Mccapra (talk) 19:52, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Invested a million dollars in his business [1]. Typical PR items, I don't see any coverage we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 21:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Miraboi[edit]

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A biographical article about a Nigeria man that doesn't meet WP:GNG. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 19:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Lists of people, Music, Africa, and Nigeria. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 19:19, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Critically fails WP:NCREATIVE or WP:GNG, utterly nonsense and promotional article that serves no purpose whatsoever than to promote the subject. No credible claim of importance. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Netherzone (talk) 20:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep : as per nomination by various editors in terms of the same GNG Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yung Miraboi Mark (2nd nomination). Clean up is just required which I would be contributing later due to my time schedule. In 2021 appeared at the Ghana national TV as a musician with one of his top song featuring Peruzzi [2]and no longer do music. In 2022, he was dragged by Nigerians for a political act [3] further details nomination 2 can be cited [4]. Nominator 2 has also been a block user for 4 years now I just noticed that. Theirs no point AFD nominator replying. Look forward to other editors as I will be busy. --Gabriel (talk to me ) 00:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep : Passes WP:SIGCOV.--Afí-afeti (talk) 00:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jayati Devi[edit]

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No indication that this person is notable per the current sourcing (which is not significant coverage), nor by her association with her husband, nor as a model/artist/musician. The article is part of a walled garden about the Munshi/Munsi extended family. A BEFORE search revealed nothing about this Jayati Devi (only about others). Fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE. Bringing it here for the community to decide. Netherzone (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Bands and musicians, Businesspeople, Women, India, and West Bengal. Netherzone (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with the nominator that this is part of a walled garden, and this family member is not notable on her own. WP:NOTINHERITED. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neal Asbury[edit]

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After almost 14 years, the articles claims of notability are not backed up by the reliable and verifiable sources that would be required, nor was I able to find anything meaningful in a Google search that could be added. The article is an orphan and there appear to be no meaningful connections to any other article that would help flesh out a claim of notability. Alansohn (talk) 12:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: News media, Business, and New Jersey. Alansohn (talk) 12:53, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 13:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The South Florida Business Journal is fine, not impressed with the other source in the article. Otherwise, I can only find mentions of his company, hiring employees or the like. Not enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 15:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lukas Biewald[edit]

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Already did a cleanup of the article, but I do not think it meets the required depth of WP:BIO. I would suggest redirecting to Figure Eight Inc. which is the notable company he co-founded. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 13:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Baanty[edit]

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Yet another musician, creative director, or music executive who critically fails WP:NCREATIVE and WP:NMUSICIAN. Another article written in a way that, if not carefully looked at, will look like it clearly passes any notability guideline, whereas it critically doesn't pass any. Just like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emperor Geezy, looking at the sources, they are either PRs/advertorials for music releases or lacking in WP:SIGCOV, they are also mostly unreliable pieces (without a proper byline). The source cited for the claim that they won an award Nigerian Books of Record in 2021, here utterly fails verification because there was no mention of Baanty, Ikpon Kelvin or even "Creative Director" which they won. It is also pretty dubious since the article says they've been active since 2022, so how come winning an award from the prestigious NBR? The other award and nominations isn't/aren't significant enough to make the subject presumptively notable under any criteria. Overall, fails WP:GNG. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 00:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This article fails WP:NCREATIVE and WP:NMUSICIAN. The sources cited in the article are PR pieces. It lacks independent coverage and fails to establish notability. Further, the timeline and awards are inconsistent, further undermining the article's credibility and notability.--AstridMitch (talk) 01:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Bands and musicians, Businesspeople, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 00:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: not enough WP:SIGCOV, most of it promotional. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 17:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: The subject fails to meet WP:GNG, WP:NCREATIVE or even WP:NMUSICIAN. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 18:59, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Emperor Geezy[edit]

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This fails WP:NCREATIVE, and overall, WP:GNG based on WP:SIGCOV and WP:MILL. The award they won is not significant enough to help them pass, if they had 'won' their 'nomination's, that would be a different case, just merely being nominated at NEA isn't significant enough. The noms are unsourced while the piece the award they won is sourced to is an unreliable one from a marginally reliable publication (WP:NGRS). Taking a close look at the sources, they are mostly WP:RUNOFTHEMILL and unreliable pieces and do not provide WP:SIGCOV. I am skeptical about the notability of G-Worldwide Entertainment itself. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Businesspeople, Entertainment, and Nigeria. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:49, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: winning a non-notable award isn't notable, the rest of the sources are puffy entertainment/lifestyle sources, not really helping notability. Oaktree b (talk) 20:55, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: nominated for a notable award twice in 2015 and 2017.--Afí-afeti (talk) 07:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV(both in the Nigerian media and in foreign ones). At least you can look at the Nigerian Wikipedia article and find several sources. I’m not sure about WP:NMUSIC, but it’s not the main criteria anyway. Tau Corvi (talk) 08:43, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tau Corvi You clearly don't know how the general notability guideline works. For an subject to have a standalone page on Wikipedia, they have to be the subject of discussions from multiple secondary sources that are independent of the subject, reliable and provides a substantial coverage of the subject. These are needed to pass WP:GNG, a subject doesn't just pass SIGCOV to qualify for a standalone page. Even the SIGCOV you claim it passes is even not exactly correct because that is not the case. I understand you're a new user, you may need to familiarise yourself with the policies and guidelines before venturing into AfDs. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment : If an Award has been reviewed, has a Wikipedia page and meets the WP:GNG then it’s notable. But reference from reliable source that are independent of the subject are needed to be cited for proof. The fact he has Won, being Nominated for notable awards, contributed to the notable movie Suga Suga (film) as an executive producer makes him passes WP:ANYBIO and notable. Per source cited on the article, subject passes WP:GNG. If the award section can be addressed then my vote is a Keep. Please to the AFD nominator theirs no point responding to me. I’m not here to argue unreasonably or pick sides. My word still stands per Wikipedia article guideline.--Gabriel (talk to me ) 19:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Familial relationships of Errol Musk[edit]

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Errol Musk is not in any way notable independent of his relation to Elon Musk. He ran for public office, ~~but was never elected,~~ but was only elected once to a local city council, he was an engineer, but didn't do anything of note. There is nothing about him is notable other than that he was the father of Elon Musk. Ergzay (talk) 01:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He ran for public office, but was never elected That's actually not correct, he was elected in '72 and served until the 80s. His 1983 resignation was front page news. Feoffer (talk) 05:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]

Ah I missed that, but that was a local city council. None of the people in my city council have wikipedia pages. Ergzay (talk) 06:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well he wasn't "just any" councilman, he was a vocally anti-apartheid English-speaking South African politician in 1972 Pretoria! Per Isaacson and many others, that's actually a really big deal in his time and place, but damned if I can find really good English-language sourcing which actually deep-dives into that part of his life story. Feoffer (talk) 11:40, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It could be great if there is a comparison on how vocal he was compared to the famous Helen Suzman. Sir Kenneth Kho (talk) 13:12, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a wikipedia page on even the contents of that 1972 city council? Did that 1972 city council do anything of note? Ergzay (talk) 00:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Errol Musk does not meet the notability guidelines despite his connection with Elon Musk. His career achievements and political work are not notable on their own. His main claim to fame is that he is the father of Elon Musk. It's crucial to adhere to WP:BLP, and keeping a separate article about only Musk's family does not meet these standards.--AstridMitch (talk) 02:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]

Delete. Ridiculous to have an article about someone's "familial relationships" without giving him his own article. Astaire (talk) 02:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it's like when we do "Death of so-and-so" for notable deaths. It's a reminder to readers that the current article doesn't (yet) cover Errol's political career in the depth required of a true BLP. Feoffer (talk) 05:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A familial relationships article for Elon Musk would be more sane, in which case Errol Musk could be mentioned there, though I'd think it should still be just part of the Elon Musk article. Ergzay (talk) 06:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's an excellent point. I definitely think of it as a Elon sub-article: we don't need to litigate emerald mines and spousal abuse and false claims of funding or abandonment on Elon's literal BLP. Feoffer (talk) 06:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand what you mean by "Elon sub-article". If it's not valuable enough to put on the page on Elon Musk then it's probably not valuable enough to put on any page on Wikipedia. I'm not sure on this last point, but I think "biography of living persons" policies apply even if it's a spin-off of the main article. That's not a loophole of the rule. Ergzay (talk) 00:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From WP:BLP:

BLP applies to all material about living persons anywhere on Wikipedia, including talk pages, edit summaries, user pages, images, categories, lists, article titles and drafts.
Ergzay (talk) 00:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as creator. GNG is met, he's been covered extensively in the press and in-depth in at least two different books. Ultimately, it's not fair to Maye Musk or Elon Musk to document Errol's extensive controversial public behavior on those articles, but neither is it fair to them for us simply to delete that verified information from the project. I haven't found fulltext access, but Afrikaans newspaper archive searches and the Isaacson book show Errol was a VERY notable person during his political career, long before Elon was an adult. Errol has a second claim to notability for his allegedly abusive relationships with Maye and Elon. Finally, Errol again became controversial for a marriage to a former stepdaughter (cf Soon-Yi Previn). Feoffer (talk) 04:58, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Politicians, Engineering, and South Africa. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Even if this was notable, having it as a "familial relationships of" article makes 0 sense when it is basically a biography of him (focusing on his relationships because that's all the sources talk about!)

The only thing here that's not directly related to, or from publications about, Elon or his ex wife is the "having a child with his stepdaughter" thing which is not enough to have an article on PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:07, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your words carry lots of weight with me. Are you saying we should just move this content into a BLP titled Errol Musk? And if not, do you have an opinion on where we SHOULD cover what is known about Errol? We've got 4 different BLPs from folks reliably alleging abuse at Errol's hands. I know @Ergzay: expressed a preference for covering it at Elon's BLP, but it seems unfair to me to single out one victim like that, when it's a multidecade pattern of abuse that pre- and post- dated Elons interactions. Errol's later promotion of conspiracy theories and admission of fathering multiple children with a stepchild obviously lend credence to their prior allegations. Feoffer (talk) 10:57, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, if there's to be something here, it should be a BLP. The content in this article is basically a BLP already. I believe there was already an AfD for the initial Errol Musk article though.

An alternative could be some sort of... Musk family article? I mean, his family's certainly discussed and he's certainly not the only notable member. Singling out his dad, who does not have his own article, for an article to be based around, doesn't make much sense. But if it's notable as part of his whole family then maybe, idk.

I'm not sure if either of these ideas are good, though, or if either is notable. Your point about his political career making him notable is a possibility but until sigcov related to that is presented the jury's still out. Not impossible though. PARAKANYAA (talk) 11:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for this feedback.

I probably should have said somewhere that this article was created to hold content removed in Musk family (which was deleted on June 1) which had been merged from Errol Musk (merged into Musk Family in Sept 2023). I concur that a full BLP should wait for the South African source, but in the mean time, the victims really do deserve for it to be SOMEWHERE in Wikipedia.(/?) Feoffer (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not in the business of deciding what people "deserve". Please read WP:RGW. Astaire (talk) 12:24, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lol fair enough, I'm not on a crusade. but it's still verifiable content with exculpatory BLP implications for Elon and Maye. Feoffer (talk) 12:56, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some of this content may belong somewhere on Wikipedia, but the current article is too flawed to stand. If it is really about "familial relationships", why does it discuss his business career, his election to city council and his game lodge? Why should anyone care that Errol claimed that Elon upgraded his home security system? Astaire (talk) 13:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why should anyone care that Errol claimed that Elon upgraded his home security system?

Because it contradicts the false claims in media (sourced to Errol) of Elon's supposed abandonment of a disabled parent. Feoffer (talk) 13:19, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Including that content with that justification is a WP:OR issue, unless reliable sources explicitly note the contradiction themselves. Astaire (talk) 13:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, any answer to your question about "why should anyone care" would be OR to put in article unless it was explicitly noted in RS. Feoffer (talk) 08:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify Weird article. Creator claims that there is more coverage of him out there, so I don't think a full delete is warranted. Either way, the article is not ready for mainspace. If the consensus ends up being to delete, that would be fine by me. BottleOfChocolateMilk (talk) 06:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify or Delete I'm the one who submitted this, but I'm fine with either option. It doesn't make sense to have it as an article though. I'm not sure what moving it to a Draft could fix though. Ergzay (talk) 06:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I interpret draftify calls as me having jumped the gun by publishing it in mainspace before we got access to the sources on political career needed to make a full balanced BLP. I get it's an unorthodox title, but it's also a little bit of a blpvio to not document Errol's verifiably-checkered past somewhere, given his public attacks on family. I don't feel good about stuffing it all into the BLP of one of his victims. Feoffer (talk) 11:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The title is probably the biggest problem. Having an articles about the familial relationships of someone without having an article on the person themselves is a bit ridiculous. But there's lots of other issues beyond that, even if the page was moved, like the noteworthiness of the man himself and of anything he thinks beyond it's relation to Elon Musk. Ergzay (talk) 00:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify Plenty of notable source material for an article about the man more so than his "relations", especially since Musk Family got effectively yeeted. QRep2020 (talk) 16:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and rename as Errol Musk - Numerous sources discuss his own life, so that his bio would easily pass GNG. Surely his son's fame directed attention to him, just like Maye Musk, Kimbal Musk and Tosca Musk; we've got plenty of coverage for those individuals as well, who arguably wouldn't be notably featured in the press if Elon's life hadn't attracted so much scrutiny. Ironic that notability is not inherited, though in this case the hyper-notability of one person did engender notability of various family members... — JFG ^talk 10:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Manish Doshi[edit]

AfDs for this article:

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Article is a WP:PROMO, fails WP:GNG, WP:BASIC and WP:BIO. Renomination reason: sock puppet activity in the prior AfD discussion, also six months have passed since the last AfD. Charlie (talk) 04:02, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:GNG even WP:BASIC. Youknow? (talk) 16:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Roger Rohatgi[edit]

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There is not a single direct and in-depth independent secondary article about him. Seems very non-notable business executive, clergy, motivational speaker. WorthWobble (talk) 12:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The CDO of bp, #22 in the Fortune 500, is non-notable figure? 98.118.86.149 (talk) 17:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Without sourcing, yes. Oaktree b (talk) 22:46, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, hi. I'm new to Wikipedia and I'm just getting my feet wet. I've gone through the tutorials, but I have some questions. Please be patient as I work to better understand, because I'm a bit confused about notability and primary vs. secondary sources.

For example, his link is not enough because it is just stuff from his wiki entry, which is referenced in his profile :https://www.ranker.com/review/roger-rohatgi/33496792?l=101186

This link doesn't work because it isn't an article, just a profile, even though it was a talk run by Harvard Business Review: https://www.alumni.hbs.edu/events/leading-with-ai.aspx

This link isn't enough because it isn't about him, even though he was a speaker for the economist, is this correct?https://viterbischool.usc.edu/news/2023/10/usc-viterbi-at-the-economist-space-economy-summit-in-los-angeles/

This video doesn't work because it is a primary source, as it is a recording of him speaking

This is a secondary source, but because he is only mentioned as a speaker, but it isn't about him, this wouldn't make the cut, correct? https://medium.com/techsonar/my-thoughts-on-the-iot-world-and-ai-summit-2022-in-austin-tx-131addde76b2

This article is an interview with him, which makes it Primary, even though there is a transcript. Are transcripts primary or secondary? https://www.designit.com/stories/point-of-view/design-the-future-featuring-roger-rohatgi

As a follow up to the above link, it is also a Podcast where he is brought on to be interviewed. That makes the Podcast primary, correct?

This blurb is technically a secondary source, but it has information that can be found elsewhere. What I mean is: I've read this while searching for these links. It is too short to count, right? https://augmentedenterprisesummit.com/speakers/2024-roger-rohatgi/

Same for this, correct? https://www.rca.ac.uk/research-innovation/research-centres/helen-hamlyn-centre/session-6-social-sustainability-the-role-of-inclusive-design/

This is too close because he literally works at bp: https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/careers/life-at-bp/our-stories/rogers-story.html

I'm not saying that this is a great example, but would this be a secondary source?

I apologize for the wall of text, but since there were vet editors here, I thought I should ask. These links were found with ChatGPT, but Wikipedia editing is my new rabbit hole :) Illunadin (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, sorry. One last question. This is secondary, but it doesn't actually provide much ABOUT him, just what he said. Should these be considered? https://www.wired.com/story/fast-forward-the-chatbots-are-now-talking-to-each-other/ Illunadin (talk) 20:55, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Same as above. It mentions his job and role, but it isn't about him in particular, correct? https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2024/01/24/bring-virtual-connections-to-life-with-microsoft-mesh-now-generally-available-in-microsoft-teams/ Illunadin (talk) 20:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Little to no coverage of this person, this is about all there is [5], Oaktree b (talk) 22:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Redirect to bb article. Seems like he initially began his career as a film director and received a notable award, which satisfies WP:ANYBIO criteria. And later, he shifted his career focus and went on to win also the Oracle CX Innovation Award. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.241.147.18 (talk) 14:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tolu Okojie[edit]

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Non notable chef that fails WP:GNG and WP:Basic. Has received minimal media coverage in reliable media. Only three notable media articles about him exist and of the three, one is interview [6] which does not count for notability leaving only two which is still below minimum requirement for WP:BLP. Ednabrenze (talk) 06:45, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Jennifer Obaseki[edit]

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Article on non notable lawyer who has received neither significant nor trivial coverage in reliable secondary sources. All of the 20 sources cited are primary sources and are unreliable. Ednabrenze (talk) 07:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:34, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I agree with the nominator. The subject did not meet WP:GNG Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 23:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Panama Papers. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:52, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John Doe (whistleblower)[edit]

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I 'WP:BOLDly redirected this to Panama Papers, however was reverted by an IP claiming that the redirect was odd given that no consensus had been obtained on either talk page. The subject has no independent notability outside of their role in the release of the panama papers. I'm not sure if this quite fits into WP:BLP1E given that the subject is anonymous and we don't know if they are still on this planet or not, however it certainly fits into the spirit of that policy given that the subject's notability is only understood insofar as they leaked the panama papers. Material about the subject is already covered in Panama Papers so there is no need for a merge and I am seeking community consensus that the redirect be restored. TarnishedPath^talk 02:56, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect Basically what TarnishedPath said, but Subject is not WP:NOTABILITY enough, and the stuff in this article is already stated in both the opening paragraphs and the Newsroom logistics of the Panama Papers article, so I believe this is a fair redirect. Sharrdx (talk) 03:27, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nom. Mccapra (talk) 04:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per nom. We don't know enough about John Doe to fill him out independently of Panama Papers Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:45, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect but also consider this as a merger as the information is already in the target article. I think this meets not only WP:BLP1E, but also WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURE. This person seeks to be a low profile individual and remain anonymous so there is little prospect of any biographical information. It makes sense to have all the information in one article. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 20:04, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nom. and others. A case of WP:BLP1E. Sal2100 (talk) 16:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect I agree with the logic above and a merge/redirect is the best option considering BLP1E HighKing⁺⁺ 17:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Serik Tolbassy[edit]

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Reviewed during NPP. No indication of wp:notability or SNG. All resume type material with promotional type wording, plus material on companies and organizations that he is affiliated with. Of the 4 references, one is a brief bio, 2 have just mentions of him at an event and one is a forbes listing of him being the 26th or 56th richest man in Kazakhstan. Tagged by others since January. North8000 (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Cantolla[edit]

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not meet GNG RodrigoIPacce (talk) 11:11, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I think the BAFTA win gets him ANYBIO, but at the very least, merge to Espacio Solo with which he's done a lot of work and where he's mentioned. Star Mississippi 00:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:36, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I did an outside search, and there are a lot of sources containing his name, the BAFTA win also makes him pass ANYBIO, He has created notable films too, if this reason is not too plausible, probably Merge will be better.

Ferdinand Marcos's dead (and weird) soul (talk) 07:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Faris Mannekkara[edit]

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Likely to fail WP:NBIO - sourced to PR/puff pieces.
Earlier draft: Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara KH-1 (talk) 00:50, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The editor who wrote this article made a Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara on 08:13, 22 June 2024 and kept it and later made a new article with a slight change in the title, which is a wrong trend and does not prove WP:NBIO. ~ Spworld2 (talk) 04:00, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Although the editor who made this page did a mistake by creating a draft and then again creating it into the main space, maybe he is a newbie that's why....but if we look at the person's page, he was awarded the community Leader Award from the Kerala State Women's Development Corporation which is a state award from the person's home state which is in Kerala and the Fulbright Foundation’s Global Changemaker Award in 2023 which is a International award given by the US Government which i believe at least qualify the award category of the people's notability guidelines according to the guidelines written in Wikipedia. This guy also has a significant coverage in The Times of India, Economics Times , Ahmedabad Mirror which i believe is considered reliable in Wikipedia. So we have 2 of the 3 basic criteria except the national dictionary thing ....also While reading the content of these articles i don't see any kind of sponsored post written or a disclaimer in the news coverage these are just my analysis. SATavr (talk) 16:19, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It may be ignorance / new editor who wrote the draft and then made a new page, but destroyed the first edits in the first draft and deleted it in a completely unrecognizable form, added another person to it and added it to his date of birth and created a misunderstanding because of lack of knowledge?? Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara Difference between revisions [7], Draft:Muhammed Faris Mannekkara 2nd Difference between revisions[8] Spworld2 (talk) 06:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I do agree with you. It was a stupid mistake done by this new editor and i think he lacks the patience for it and just wanted to go directly with a shortcut way for publication. Thats why he change the draft content to a different person and he thought we would'nt know lol..... I believe he has learned a lesson not to do it again and i hope he has got to know that things doesnt workout like this. SATavr (talk) 09:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A before search comes up with many sources. (e.g. [1] [2]. Numerous articles featuring the names appear, the most of them in Hindi and English. Tiger-in-Action (talk) 08:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PR/churnalism doesn’t count. Both articles are just advertorials for his car company.-KH-1 (talk) 10:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These articles discuss his side automobile firm, yet his Wikipedia biography hardly ever mentions this information. The autogenerated nature of these stories is not disclaimed, as is typically the case. The name of the publisher, Sunil Chaurasia, is also mentioned in The Economic Times. His social work is the subject of major pieces that don't appear to be PR or churnalism. They include original research, such as his participation in and thorough coverage of the Sankesh Foundation and the Smiles Foundation. - [3] which is covered in the Ahmedabad Mirror. Another example is his relationship with Shyalash C, his mentor, which isn't mentioned on his Wikipedia page but is confirmed as original research in Punjab Kesari - [4]. Tiger-in-Action (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It would be nice to hear from some more experienced editors about whether sourcing is sufficient to establish notability.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The person is currently serving as a Global Peace Ambassador under UN75. He has been awarded the Fulbright Award and a State Government Award from Kerala. He meets the basic criteria of WP:GNG and WP:BIO. With regards to his sources the news articles on his social work looks fine but the same cannot be said for some of his articles written about his second-hand car business found in google but considering that his Wikipedia page does not cover his car business, overall, it looks fine to me. Master rollo (talk) 11:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I am seriously asking for experienced editors who frequent AFD discussions to review this article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I only get two pages of Gnews results, most are by "staff" or puff pieces/advertorials. The Fullbright sounds promising, but without sourcing we can't confirm, nor do we have enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 00:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Best I could find was this [9]; GTranslate seems to say it's a staff piece, so likely about as unreliable as the rest of what's already in the article. Oaktree b (talk) 00:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph James Nantomah[edit]

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Life coach, serial entrepreneur, but I don't see any significant independent coverage. The only articles I see are praising the guy's amazing skills in his voice. BrigadierG (talk) 09:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Sourced to advertorial/puff pieces.-KH-1 (talk) 03:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not sure this is Wikipedia material. There aren't any real news articles or anything - just self-promotion. Waqar💬 15:29, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I have previously commented about policing of tone in sources from Africa and lack of WPBEFORE but I will assume good faith due to the plethora of interviews out there and give atleast reliable three sources that discusses the subject independently.
- Mojisoluwa, Felix Ayodele (16 January 2022). "Financial Literacy: Master Key To Gateway Of Financial Breakthroughs". New Telegraph. Retrieved 6 July 2024.
- Agbo, Juliana (13 July 2022). "THE GREAT MIGRATION: Exploring The Surge in Nigerians Moving Overseasin the Past Decade". Vanguard. Retrieved 6 July 2024.
- Ibeh, Ifeanyi (2 December 2020). "Joseph Nantomah's Journey: Poverty as a Catalyst for Financial Breakthrough". The Guardian. Retrieved 6 July 2024.

These three sources are not included in the article. Best, Reading Beans 10:31, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:20, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete We have independent coverage requirements to pass notability, and I don't see it on these sources. The links in the article, as well as the additional links suggested by @Reading Beans do read as if they were pulled by a self-penned biography package. If you look at the PM News article from a certain angle it looks like independent reporting, possibly just paraphrasing/rewriting but more of an editorial effort. Oblivy (talk) 10:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oblivy, I usually and always disapprove of badgering of !votes but what is the proof of the non-independency of these sources? The tone? I just want to naively believe that it’s the tone. But is it? Best, Reading Beans 14:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's the way the articles just say things about him, often things that only he would know or which would be difficult to track down. And doing so without any of the the curiosity or skepticism or contextualization one might expect from an independent journalistic exercise. Oblivy (talk) 00:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This may sound WP:OR but there are a lot, I mean, a lot interviews out there. Do you prefer I cite interviews (which I think is where these informations were actually gotten)? As I said earlier, we always make a mistake of judging sources from Africa with Western standards. Best, Reading Beans 09:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the information, I am from Nigeria. Best, Reading Beans 09:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you have other sources that qualify for WP:GNG feel free to add them or cite them here. I had a look at each of the existing sources, plus the ones you selected above, and made my vote based on what I saw - a bunch of puff pieces and an article announcing he got an honorary degree from an unaccredited college. This has nothing to do with misapplying Western standards. Oblivy (talk) 09:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Sometimes we follow the content of the article, which most often appears promotional though can be cleaned easily. Others will leave WP:GNG, and rush to additional criteria that can presume notability. However, this context presents a good narrative of the subject. It's also unfortunate that this generation will neglect someone being a migration officer (formed word) or copy writer, but in the olden days, we see people being that and still appear on sources like the current generation. No matter the promotional (which I don't seem to find) contents in he article, it doesn't depict the fact of being notable, or treated in multiple independent sources. I first was following the discussion especially when it found this article by Vanguard as a well written non advertorial source, and it prompted me reading others. Here is my conclusion, the three Nigerian sources are all reliable per WP:NGRS, and is very satisfiable for WP:GNG. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 19:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: The subject has received coverage in multiple reliable sources, including the ones posted here by RB. The article meets WP:GNG, and sources are fine from here. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 19:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We have very divergent opinions on the adequacy of sources on this subject. Before closing this as No consensus, I'll try one more relisting to see if we can iron out the differences in assessment of them.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Reason for notability seems unclear in the article. Additionally, the sources are questionable in my mind. For example, the first source has a banner asking people to join their Whatsapp group and the third and fourth sources have links to their Whatsapp group. The The third and fourth sources also link to the same website, tribuneonlineng.com. The method of contacting pmnewsnigeria.com, the second source, is a Google Form, which seems unprofessional for an independent news site. Ternera (talk) 15:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you think Nigerian national dailies should not be cited, you should state so. Most news outlets do this in Nigeria (as a way of driving traffic) but this does not affect their editorial policy. If you have any issues save for this, please, let me know. Best, Reading Beans 19:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The group even doesn't allow anybody except admins post anything. Likewise the subscription of newspapers in Europe and America, that's a good way for Nigerian sources that doesn't seek subscription. Haven't I seen such in American newspapers even? Welp, those doesn't affect the contents published by the newspaper—editorial policy like Reading Beans said. We look at the established reliable source, and how independent the content they published seems to look. Cheers! Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 14:05, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Wall (entrepreneur)[edit]

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WP:BLP of a crypto entrepreneur, not properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria for businesspeople. As always, CEOs of companies are not "inherently" notable just for existing, and have to establish that they pass WP:GNG on third-party coverage and analysis about them and their work -- but five of the eight footnotes here are primary sources that are not support for notability, such as his own company's press releases and his own self-created YouTube videos and a "staff" profile on the self-published website of an organization he's directly affiliated with, and one more is an unreliable source crypto-news forum. And what's left for reliable sources is one Forbes article that just briefly namechecks him as a provider of soundbite and one Forbes article that completely fails to contain even a glancing namecheck of Peter Wall at all, and instead is just here to tangentially verify stray facts about a company without providing any evidence that any of those facts have anything in particular to do with Peter Wall.
As always, Wikipedia is not a free LinkedIn alternative for tech entrepreneurs, so nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be referenced much, much better than this. Bearcat (talk) 12:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I complete understand your reservations about Peter Wall, and it was never my intention to sound like a Linkedin profile. Maybe I did not do due negligence when sourcing my references but the entire of the article was becuase he is a notable man both in Canadian media and in bitcoin. Can I nominate that we move the article to a draft while I source for other sources which do exist on the individual concerned and am sure when you searched online you will find that Peter Wall is extensively covered. LynnEditor.Nam (talk) 14:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: current sourcing is Canada C3 Coast to Coast describing him as a team member (non-independent), a coworking space review mentioning his company but not him, two sources by him (non-independent), and two sources mentioning him joining and leaving as CEO without saying much about (providing significant coverage of) him, one short source about an IPO not mentioning him, and the bitcoin mining rush source which includes a quote from him and says basically nothing else. Mrfoogles (talk) 08:30, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify as suggested: nominator is being unnecessarily harsh by calling it "not a free linkedin alternative" but I cannot find sources googling that are not associated with him, by him, or coverage that does not go into detail of him being in various positions.

Per Wikipedia:Notability, significant coverage (at least a paragraph specifically talking about him and who he is) from at least two reliable, independent (not affiliated with, employing, employed by, working together with him) sources is necessary for an article so that it can be written sufficiently independently and in-depth. Mrfoogles (talk) 08:35, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This isn't a notable person. This is about the best [10] and it's a PR item. A video journalist is just a "grunt behind the camera", to be blunt, and isn't notable. He's reported on things that happened, which is what videographers do. The crypto connection isn't helping notability. There is a real estate person in Vancouver that has coverage (with the same name), but it's not this person. Oaktree b (talk) 00:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 07:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Best source about this person I found is [11], and although it's reliable it's hardly WP:SIGCOV. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 09:40, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moruf Oseni[edit]

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Procedural nom following the discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 June 19 where consensus was that the speedy wasn't the right outcome, but did not necessarily find support for retention and the outcome was for an AfD to establish consensus. Note I have dropped the protection to ECP to allow established editors to improve the article if they feel so inclined as it didn't feel right to have a fully protected article at AfD. However if p-blocks or other solutions are needed, feel free to implement them. I have not protected the AfD out of hope that all editors will work productively. Star Mississippi 13:29, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Pinging @BoraVoro:, who has been fighting the relentless efforts from COI/SPAs to prematurely undraftify this page. Owen× ☎ 14:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC) [reply]

What is the main issue with the page? Are other editors citing any apart from the G11 on the Achievements and Awards section mentioned in the deletion review? @Star Mississippi Michael Ugbodu (talk) 23:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have no opinion on the merit @Michael Ugbodu, I just nominated it as the outcome of the DRV. Star Mississippi 01:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative cautious keep. It appears this article has a history of ping-ponging between draft space and mainspace, with promotional tone, COI/UPE(?) editing issues, and initially unclear claims of significance/notability. As such it deserves scrutiny. (As an aside, it sounded from DRV there might be information about this on the article's talk page, but this has not been undeleted). That said, earlier this month Michael Ugbodu (who I understand may be an involved editor?) added additional sources which point to achievements and awards that present a credible assertion of significance. In such cases, there are sometimes concerns if the sourcing (and awards) themselves are sufficiently independent, i.e. editorially independent vs regurgitating primary sources only. I'm not familiar with Nigerian sourcing, so don't have a good opinion on this. However, while the process followed with this article has been irregular and far from good practice, absent credible assertions to the contrary, it does seem there is adequate 3rd party coverage, sourcing, and notability to warrant an article. Martinp (talk) 11:08, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for flagging the lack of talk page @Martinp. Oversight on my part. It's now undeleted Star Mississippi 12:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I've reviewed the talk page, and read the DRV in more detail, I'm changing to delete, send back to draft and enforce requiring using WP:AFC to recreate by any COI editors. I applaud @Michael Ugbodu for their clear statement of COI on the talk page, and for hunting up promising sources. However, paid editing COI should also be listed on the editor's user talk page, and paid-COI article drafts are indeed supposed to go through WP:AFC, not be promoted into mainspace by a COI editor. This is not just bureaucracy, it is exactly there where independence of sources, article bias, etc can be reviewed best, insulating from the fact that a paid-COI editor has much more energy to argue than uncompensated volunteers if there is any debate. We've now had (at least) multiple days at DRV and now 2.5 days here where no-one independent has truly investigated notability and independence of the secondary sources used. Given the COI, this is a must, and while it may be frustrating to a paid editor and their client to have to wait, it would equally be unfair to keep this article in mainspace absent someone independent, experienced with local (Nigerian) sourcing, to verify, jumping the queue vs other paid articles that are going through the (admittedly clogged) AFC pipeline. I'm happy to change my vote if someone independent does investigate those sources during the rest of this AFD. Martinp (talk) 22:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We need to come to a consensus on the main issues with the page. The sources for the awards section are all newspaper sources and not primary sources, so can be considered credible. However, I think the second paragraph on the achievements section can be better written or scrapped as it sounds promotional.

Let's hear what others think as well. Michael Ugbodu (talk) 22:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's trickier, Michael. We have a lot of trouble with CV-like COI articles which do use secondary (newspaper) sources, but they are not sufficiently independent of the article subject. I'm (probably) not notable in wikispeak, but would not become so just because I persuaded a newspaper (or two) to run an article where they just parroted what I told them. That's why we need someone who doesn't have a COI to look into that (I can't, since I know nothing about Nigerian newspaper writing habits!) Martinp (talk) 22:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 10:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Generally lack GNG and the reliable sources has no significant coverage

DXdy FX (talk) 22:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously? 1 has no coverage of the man. 2 and 4 are copies of the same press release, also appearing e.g. here and here. 3 is entirely a quoted press release. 5 is another unmarked press release, as also seen for example here, here, and here. 6 also has no biographical coverage, merely a few quotes.
If you think these constitute GNG-satisfying coverage, I have to ask: are you, like every other editor who has taken an interest in this page, being paid to do so, or are you merely incompetent? —Cryptic 22:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I checked very they are all press releases. The subject generally has no notability. I think I’ll change my vote to delete right now. DXdy FX (talk) 21:27, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not ready, lacks notability. --BoraVoro (talk) 13:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oleksandr Komarov (businessman)[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The person is not notable; highly promo article; sources are about companies nor the person; 鲁纳娄于 (talk) 09:49, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Ukraine. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:42, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The person is notable, he meets WP:BIO — he is a CEO of the biggest mobile operator of Ukraine for many years and has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the person. He also has several awards and honours — Head the best leaders ranking according to Forbes Ukraine, Lead Ideal Managers (a ranking of the telecom industry's best executives), he made it into the top 10 executives of Ukraine, top 20 most successful leaders of Ukrainian companies and many others. --Perohanych (talk) 17:57, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Keep. The page reads pretty much as his personal CV, but there are numerous sources (primarily in Ukrainian) with non-trivial coverage of the person. Probably passes WP:GNG. My very best wishes (talk) 17:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom. WP:MILL business person. No WP:SIGCOV to meet WP:BASIC or WP:ANYBIO. No SNGs apply here. C F A 💬 16:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~I agree with this. My very best wishes (talk) 16:34, 26 June 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]

Please find some examples of WP:SIGCOV:
1. https://forbes.ua/profile/oleksandr-komarov-369 (1 place among top 25 best СЕО)
2. https://www.epravda.com.ua/news/2018/12/6/643323/
3. https://biz.nv.ua/ukr/markets/v-kijivstar-priznachili-novoho-kerivnika-z-beeline-2483354.html
See also 17,000+ results of Google Search in Ukrainian

Komarov is really No 1 business person in Ukraine --Perohanych (talk) 11:28, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. My very best wishes (talk) 18:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 12:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete none of the sources are deep enough or independent enough to establish the person's notability. The article's author does not understand what reliable sources are. The page is REFBOMBED and contains only passing, routine mentions. There are no good, reliable sources. Profiles on Forbes are not reliable at all, nor are press releases. --182.53.28.77 (talk) 09:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I stand by my delete here. References are trivial mentions. Does not meet WP:BASIC. Everything else is routine press releases. C F A 💬 19:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) please adhere to this guideline and learn how to spot paid or superficial news from deep media coverage 182.53.28.77 (talk) 09:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But mentiones sources are not paid or superficial news! They do contain an in-depth analysis of the person. It is not just a profile on Forbes, it is a profile in connection with the fact that Forbes recognized Komarov as the No. 1 person among businessmen in the whole country! --Perohanych (talk) 13:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@182.53.28.77, this is a person. The applicable guidelines here are WP:GNG or WP:NBIO, not WP:NCORP. Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 17:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:28, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Lots of trivial mentions and interviews among the available sources, but I'd count Interfax Ukraine, EPravda, Forbes Kazakhstan and DELO.ua as sufficient WP:SIGCOV to clear WP:GNG. If the consensus goes toward deletion, I'd recommend a redirect to Kyivstar instead of outright deletion. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the coverage is trivial and consists only of passing mentions. The provided sources and WP BEFORE do not help establish notability. WP MILL and WP SIGCOV should be especially considered here. Old-AgedKid (talk) 09:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Old-AgedKid please explain why Interfax Ukraine, EPravda, Forbes Kazakhstan, DELO.ua and forbes.ua are not sufficient WP:SIGCOV to clear WP:GNG? --Perohanych (talk) 18:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
because of Wikipedia:TRIVIALMENTION - none of the provided source meet reliable source requirement per WP:CORPDEPTH (The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability. Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization) Old-AgedKid (talk) 08:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CORPDEPTH — is about organizations and companies, not about persons. Oleksandr Komarov is a person. At the addresses, specified above, there are pages dedicated entirely to Komarov's biography and achievements. This does not fit the definition of trivial mention. --Perohanych (talk) 14:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
yes, I messed up Corpdepth with WP:SIGCOV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#General_notability_guideline). None of the sources provided meets SIGCOV.

Here is the assessment of the sources:

Interfax - only a passing mention and a press-release with a direct referencing to the press-center of the company; Forbes Kazakhstan - a press-release style page with brief, résumé-like mentions of his past positions, lacking significant coverage that may establish notability. Delo - a passing mention of the person with routine mentions of his three previous positions (no significant coverage, just copy-paste). Forbes Profile - profiles are never considered reliable sources, and this one primarily contains his citations. EPravda - no significant, reliable, independent coverage, only a copy-paste of his past positions without notability analysis or other substantial information. Thus, the person fails WP GNG, ANYBIO and SIGCOV Old-AgedKid (talk) 15:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a good-faith analysis. The sources (EPravda, Delo, Forbes Kazakhstan and Interfax anyway) are legit, it's not churnalism, there's no evidence they're reprinted press releases. The Delo article is a four-paragraph profile on a list of top executives, not a "passing mention." Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]