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8:51 AM
A chairde - Morning all!
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9:34 AM
Sinn Féin have done well in the elections in the 6 county region of the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland currently still under the jurisdiction of British authorities. Held all of their seats and pushed the DUP to the wire (< 200 votes) in east Derry. Also, in Bobby Sands' constituency of Fermanagh South-Tyrone, (57 votes last time) now looks like a Sinn Féin banker (> 2000 vote lead) - the SDLP held on to their 2 seats. Overall, a good day for the Irish in the North!
 
10:29 AM
To complete - disaster for the (hardline) DUP - in North Antrim, Ian Paisley junior was defeated by an even more hardline Unionist (TUV - Traditional Unionist Voice) Jim McAllister. They lost to Alliance ("neither Unionist nor Nationalist") in Lagan Valley (the ex-DUP leader is facing very serious sex offences).
 
Thanks for the update for Northern Ireland!
The UK results overall look generally in line with expectations. Conservatives did a little better than predicated, but still a disaster. Labour has won, with a relatively small share of the vote, mainly thanks to votes for Reform not being converted to seats under their electoral system. SNP disaster.
 
So, you can see that every six-county border area votes for Irish candidates - a gerrymandered statlet if ever there was one!
Wow, the SNP have been demolished!
 
10:50 AM
No Conservatives in Wales
Sinn Féin seem to have done much better in the UK election than the Irish one
 
And -38 for the SNP - that's a massacre!
 
Self-inflicted
Same as the Tories
 
The Shinners are delighted!
 
An approximation of the pronunciation of Irish sinn (/ʃɪnʲ/) written using English orthography, with -er. (UK) IPA(key): /ˈʃɪnə/ (Ireland) IPA(key): /ˈʃɪnəɹ/ shinner (plural shinners) (Ireland, slang, derogatory) a member or supporter of Sinn Féin. Hinners
 
Turned two seats into marginals
East Derry (SF) and East Antrim (Alliance).
 
10:56 AM
Second round for France on Sunday
 
Intéressant!
Intéressant!
 
I suppose the most likely outcome is a hung parliament, but we shall see
Perhaps Macron will take up a new hobby. He won't be doing too much actual governing.
 
Je déteste Le Pen! Elle n'aime pas les étrangers comme moi!
Actually, they love me! I'm white and I speak French.
 
Will you be voting in the French election?
 
Pas un citoyen!
 
11:05 AM
Perhaps you'll be able to influence those who do have a vote in some way
I don't really understand why RN is so popular all of a sudden, but then I don't really follow French politics in general
 
The long and short of it is that Reform took most of the Conservative losses. Had they not been in the running, the large bulk (prob 70 or even 80%) of their votes would go to Con. Might have still been a loss, but much much smaller. This Con loss is much more Nigel Farage's fault than it is Rishi Sunak's, and has very little to do with anything Labour and Keir did or said.
 
It's possible disaffected Conservatives would have voted Lib Dem, Independent, or not at all
Agree it doesn't seem like a positive vote for Labour in any way
 
So sayeth the BBC psephologist John Curtice (a psephologist is someone who puts his feet up on the sofa).
 
Even the Scottish gains weren't really their doing
@Charlieface Yes, read that earlier today. Thought it was a good summary bbc.com/news/articles/c2x0g8nkzmzo
 
@PaulWhite Possibly not at all, but Lib/Con swing voters are a fairly small population in most areas of the country, that's more a London/affluent area thing, and doesn't really exist at all in any of the new seats gotten by Boris in 2019.
 
11:12 AM
It's difficult to see what more the Cons could have done to avoid being elected
@Charlieface Right, historically, but new things can always happen. These were odd circumstances, to say the least
Turnout was relatively low in any event
> Second lowest turnout since 1885
To be expected in a one-sided race, I guess
 
Interesting that the British imposed different voting systems on foreign countries (Ireland, Germany.... ) than they have for themselves!
 
There are some arguments in favour of FPtP. I don't find them persuasive myself, but then I don't get a say in the matter
I am a bit surprised the Conservative vote held up so well at 24%
 
What's the system in NZ?
 
@Vérace MMP
Was FPtP until mid-90s
 
So, a decent system? Compared to STV PR?
 
11:23 AM
Alternative Vote is a nice system, you still get a local MP, but you get to make a second choice.
 
I've never really fully understood the AUS system
 
How proportional?
 
The electoral system of Australia comprises the laws and processes used for the election of members of the Australian Parliament and is governed primarily by the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918. The system presently has a number of distinctive features including compulsory enrolment; compulsory voting; majority-preferential instant-runoff voting in single-member seats to elect the lower house, the House of Representatives; and the use of the single transferable vote proportional representation system to elect the upper house, the Senate. The timing of elections is governed by the Constitution and...
 
@PaulWhite Possibly, but I'm from the North myself, and I can tell you: these people will vote Labour (and have done historically), they voted Conservative because of Boris, which was unusual, they will never ever vote Lib or Green, which are looked at as hippy London projects.
 
@Charlieface Sure, and it will remain that way until it doesn't
It's a bit like En Marche! coming from nowhere in France
 
11:26 AM
Some Aussie elections are STV PR!
 
Many of our regional elections, including Health Boards, are STV
Parliament is mixed-member proportional
 
And Malta!
 
It works reasonably well in practice
local factors apply to electoral systems ofc
 
In NZ do you have "panels"?
 
In walls? Yes
Otherwise, probably not, because that word means nothing to me in a political context
Maybe we call them something else
 
11:35 AM
"Panels" are bodies from whom one can elect. If, for example, you're a teacher, you'd be a
"Panels" are bodies from whom one can elect. If, for example, you're a teacher, you'd be allowd vote for the teacher's panel.
 
Oh, then no, not really. Various professions are represented by various bodies, but I don't know that any of them call themselves panels
 
I, as a graduate, get a Senate vote, which my friends do not
 
e.g. The Teaching Council | Matatū Aotearoa is the professional body representing teachers in early childhood education, primary and secondary schooling.

Nothing to do with elections though. We also only have one House of Parliament.
No Senate or whatever
Just the House of Reps
 
Unicameral?
 
Yes
The New Zealand electoral system has been mixed-member proportional (MMP) since the 1996 election. MMP was introduced following a referendum in 1993. It replaced the first-past-the-post (FPP) system New Zealand had previously used for most of its history. Under MMP, New Zealanders have two secret ballot votes to elect members of Parliament (MPs). The first vote is for a candidate from an electorate, a geographic electoral district. The second is the party vote for the political party the voter wants to form the government. The timing of elections is governed by the Constitution Act 1986 and political...
 
11:44 AM
Why didn't the stupid f%%%%-ing brits impose a system on you?
 
As I said before, we had FPtP until fairly recently
We changed it in a referendum
There are various proposals to tweak the current system from time to time
I see Liz 'Lettuce' Truss lost her seat, having held a 24,180-vote majority before
 
12:02 PM
The major party here (under De Valera) tried (twice) to change our system to FPTP. Rejected (thankfully) both times - we like our STV PR!
 
NI uses both
 
12:42 PM
alright everyone, freedom is over
back to work
 
who 8 the most hot dogs
 
a couple hawks
 
1:00 PM
> Enable the option "include actual execution plan" in MSSQLM.
 
@ErikDarling Most people call it a manifesto...
 
there ought to be an election
 
Vote for your local DBMS...
 
i wonder which political parties each dbms would align with
 
MySQL = Official Monster Raving Loony Party
Oracle = your local spend-too-much-take-big-fat-checks party
Postgres = LibDems (think Libertarian or your 3rd in a two-horse race): great idea but nah
 
1:13 PM
SQL Server = would make a mess of the ballot, then set fire to it
And the final total of votes would be 163738% of the electorate
 
sql server could be labour i guess. never actually fixes anything important, keeps adding new fad schemes to look good, everyone accepts it at the status quo
 
Maybe DuckDB would be Labour. Relatively new, and no one's quite sure what it's for
 
did i get that wrong? who's the uk version of american democrats.
 
No, you're right-ish (or left-ish!) from a historical perspective, but New Labour isn't what it used to be
Not that New Labour is really accurate (that was Blair) but I know what I mean
My remark is about the present staff and policies of Labour
No one really seems to know much about either
 
@PaulWhite i'm glad you know what you mean
 
1:19 PM
Hence 🦆
 
rubber ducky, you're the one
 
@ErikDarling They're what came after New Labour. I don't know if they refer to themselves in a particular way
Calling things New is always a mistake
Labour_V3 perhaps
It's somewhat unusual to see Labour led by a knight of the realm, for example
Sir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB, KC
Sir Keir Rodney Starmer ( KEER; born 2 September 1962) is a British politician who has served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom since July 2024 and as Leader of the Labour Party since 2020. He has been Member of Parliament (MP) for Holborn and St Pancras since 2015, and was previously Leader of the Opposition from 2020 to 2024 and Director of Public Prosecutions from 2008 to 2013. Born in London and raised in Surrey, Starmer attended the selective state Reigate Grammar School which became a private school while he was a student. He was politically active from an early age and joined the...
Not v obviously working class
Maybe Labour_V3 has moved far enough to the right to qualify as a US Democrat, idk
I mean, the Wikipedia header there could be describing a Conservative leader
 
oh, our train to france left from st pancras station
neat
 
Quite the coincidence
 
he looks pretty (us) republican-y
 
1:25 PM
exactly
 
knight of the realm. what does that entail?
 
He's even wearing mostly blue (US colours being reversed compared with UK)
@ErikDarling Being called Sir
 
he could also be a history teacher at a boarding school
 
Maybe a seat in the House of Lords, but that might have changed or never been the case
 
i'm your history professor, sir starmer. for the next four years we're going to talk about world war 2 at great length. i've brought my camouflage collection, everyone dress up now.
 
1:28 PM
I don't know if he's that interesting, in truth
The Most Honourable Order of the Bath is a British order of chivalry founded by King George I on 18 May 1725. Recipients of the Order are usually senior military officers or senior civil servants, and the monarch awards it on the advice of His Majesty's Government. The name derives from an elaborate medieval ceremony for preparing a candidate to receive his knighthood, of which ritual bathing (as a symbol of purification) was an element. While not all knights went through such an elaborate ceremony, knights so created were known as "knights of the Bath". George I constituted the Knights of the...
If you're truly interested
> He was appointed Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath (KCB) in the 2014 New Year Honours for services to law and criminal justice.
(he's also King's Counsel, KC)
Quite a contrast with Jeremy Corbin, for example
Which will mean nothing 2 u, I expect
But he was trad left wing
Still is. Was re-elected as an Independant yesterday
I think he was Labour's leader before Sir History Prof
 
well good on him
no one likes a loser
 
Indeed. Seems it was quite a surprise to be re-elected that way
Anyway, seems like the UK is in for a decade of slightly left of centre politics
Armageddon notwithstanding
Maybe he'll invade France
They haven't done that for a while
Kier would know the details
@ErikDarling n e idea who Kamala's running m8 will b?
 
1:53 PM
if joe bails she might not even be the running mate
sorry i was on a SALES CALL
time to ring the invoice bell
 
🔔🔔🔔
Is there n e chance the US will just decide not to bother with a President this term
More trouble than it's worth, sort of thing
 
i would be in favor of starting the whole government over from scratch
keep the state level stuff
 
@PaulWhite What Corbyn (and his friends in the far-left of politics) haven't realized yet, is that the UK just doesn't do, and never has done, extreme politics. The most right-wing and left-wing govs we've ever had would probably come down centre-left in USA and centre-right in most other countries.
The far-right also haven't worked that out yet, in spite of Reform's surgency (mostly a protest vote).
We're just too plain-vanilla, we honestly can't be bothered to get out of bed for such complicated politics. Give us the same boring stuff we'll vote it every time.
probably the rain
in hot countries people just get more hot under the collar about stuff, the weather's too miserable here to care about anything really
 
2:15 PM
@Charlieface Hm, Thatcher was a moderate?
Anyway, such evaluations are largely pointless matters of opinion
I suppose many people and countries around the world would regard Britain as quite extreme at times, historically speaking.
@ErikDarling Sounds like a reasonable idea. Let's do that
 
i've played civ 3 enough, i think i could do alright starting a country
 
(a) how hard could it be; and
(b) difficult to see you doing worse
Be sure to hit 'save' b4 doing ne thing bold
 
2:32 PM
the crucial thing is discovering iron and oil
 
@PaulWhite Yes compared with the far-right.
 
No doubt you'd get some push back on that from coal miners
But anyway, ok, you don't do extreme governments so far.
 
who were far-left, and unsurprisingly never got a government
 
did someone claim a government of coal miners?
point was they might regard Thatcher as extreme
 
0
Q: Could this question be salvaged? If so, how?

Yano_of_QueenscastleThe question Are MSSQL window functions logically redundant? got closed, because it "needs more focus". Is the question completely unsalvageable (since this stack is about practical problems and the question seem more like idle intellectual exercise)? Or is there something OP could do to get it r...

 
2:35 PM
thatcher didn't seem all that extreme to americans
 
Well, I rest my case 🤣
Your other interesting point was about Reform UK being a protest vote. You might well be right, but to disregard it on that basis might be unwise. It's not impossible the Conservatives will find it difficult to come back from this defeat and recent history. People could come to see Reform as the new 'right', not necessarily *far-*right. If you fear that development, it might be better to take it seriously.
 
american conservatives talk about her quite fondly
 
Yes but (a) they don't get a vote; and (b) they might be extremists
I honestly don't recall the era well enough in detail to hold a really strong opinion
There did seem to be quite a division in the UK at the time tho
 
well her and reagan came up about the same time in both countries
they are compared favorably to each other
 
Oh, of course Ronald Ray-Gun
I don't immediately recall him doing anything dramatic
Maybe he did. Was he Star Wars?
 
2:40 PM
he killed communism!
spit on that wall
 
Oh that was him, was it
Goes to show what I know, I thought it was Gorbachev
I do remember Reagan getting shot. That was quite dramatic
 
a bit yeah
 
It's funny what you forget. I really did think of Star Wars first
Invasion of Grenada, bombing of Libya, the Iran–Iraq War, sale of arms to Iran to fund the Contras.
 
yeah, the 80s ruled
 
All Reagan. What did the other Presidents even do
 
2:53 PM
sat on their hands twiddling their thumbs
messed everything up
i dunno
i didn't vote for any of them
 
Probably for the best. Most voters seem unqualified anyway
No point adding to the problem
Any vote is a vote to support the system, as it were
 
i'm against it
 
Sounds subversive
You're not planning an insurrection, are you?
A new government system tested in Civ 3 and proven to work
Peace and prosperity through the power of carefully applied invoices
 
@PaulWhite it's not an insurrection if it works
 
history written by the winners, yeah
Vive la révolution etc
Corrected b4 the accent police get me
Typing lag has not fully gone away. May need to reboot.
Or switch to *nix.
 
3:05 PM
oh good catch, you would have given them an ulster
i mean ulcer
 
heh
certainly wouldn't want to cause any troubles
what a marvellous euphemism that is
 
certainly a bad time to be a valet
 
how could there ever be anything extreme in the UK when that period is described that way
@ErikDarling do you think they were paid danger money?
up front, ofc
 
perhaps some form of life insurance
 
don't they normally exclude Acts of Troubles?
can u imagine the premiums
"Life insurance, eh? Sure. What did you say you do for a living again?"
 
3:22 PM
sometimes this chat really is inscrutable
 
@PaulWhite irish need not apply, as a wise sign once said
 
@PeterVandivier only sometimes? then we still have work to do
1
Q: Could this question be salvaged? If so, how?

Yano_of_QueenscastleThe question Are MSSQL window functions logically redundant? got closed, because it "needs more focus". Is the question completely unsalvageable (since this stack is about practical problems and the question seem more like idle intellectual exercise)? Or is there something OP could do to get it r...

 
the descruting will continue until morale improves
 
damn str8
 
how can i get scruted
 
3:31 PM
add your name to the screw table
 
Then he will be inscrutable
 
I thought that's what he wanted. If not, perform the reverse manoeuvre
 
get scruted, noob
 
This isn't rocket science, people
Basic INSERT and DELETE
Can't really b n e clearer
 
woah woah
what's the delete
 
3:40 PM
Less painful than TRUNCATE. 'cuz you have that if you want.
 
for maximum descruting
BULK SCRUTE is of course available for the reverse operation
little known but useful feature of the SQL Standard
 
@ErikDarling If I delete you from the screw table, you are no longer inscrewtable. Ergo, your scrtue has gone up to the maximum. You have been fully scruted. I will not be addressing further questions on this
I can feel morale lifting
 
Is it like flammable/inflammable or is it like gruntled/disgruntled?
 
*disflammable
*ingruntled
TIL BACKUP SERVER is a thing that exists
something new everyday
🌠tmyk
 
@PeterVandivier Yep, server was down, rebooted, server backup
The command to take a server down is ofc DOWN SERVER
What you have there is the inverse
HtH
 
3:56 PM
@PaulWhite all servers, or just collie breeds?
 
You need the advanced class, just down the hall
 
We're just learning to order dates in here
 
hence the scruting
 
lofty goal of continuous improvement
 
3:58 PM
y'all are making me hungry
 
dates are yummy
you should order some
stick around to find out how to do it correctly
 
4:16 PM
What are you on my case about dates for
I’m a married man
> Throughput falls below the theoretical maximum of 500 due to these overheads and system can get into a state where more time is spent on administration than useful work.
should be "the system"? @PaulWhite
> A signalled thread is boosted to the head of the scheduler’s runnable queue up to 1000 times in a row, after which is goes to the end of the list.
"it goes to the end of the list"
my rates are reasonable btw
> and SQL Server uses a operating system call
AHEM
maybe i should stop sending wine
 
4:33 PM
ha ha ha
 
i can delete a self-answered question as long as there's no upvotes on it, right?
or do i need to delete the answer?
typed out a whole thing before finding the line on the docs page that answers it 🤦‍♂️
 
@ErikDarling Thank you for your feedback! I will address those updates to the 3,100-word article at the next available opportunity.
 
but now there's a possible follow-on question i don't want to get into atm. just wondering if i can delete the RTFM post and use it as a draft
 
what happens when you try to delete it
 
let's find out i guess
yolo as the youths say
 
4:38 PM
yolofafo
 
yup, deletedable
 
hey macarena (as the kids say)
> After enabling global trace flag 3933
why oh why is this not a query level tf
 
these lines are v. good
> CXPACKET has increased from 69,597 to 280,905. Increasing throughput at the parallel insert results in a higher fill-rate for packets on the producer side of the final exchange.

CXCONSUMER waits have dropped from 6,784 to 1,043. The parent task on the consumer side of the final exchange found no packets ready to process less often.
 
@PeterVandivier The only thing I can never remember is if a self-accepted answer can't be deleted until you un-self-accept
 
4:45 PM
also the first four paragraphs of the conclusion are 🤌
 
yea, i suppose i could have just tried and and done the piecemeal delete-answer-then-delete-question without bothering to ask. my brain was just a little fried from crafting the Q & repro
 
@PeterVandivier I was going to say that I don't think the rules (above) change in any way just because the Q & A is self-authored. Then the question about acceptance occurred to me.
 
wasted effort seems more effortful in the end
 
don't it just?
turns out my repro was flawed
quel surprise
something to do with object_id being database-scoped but index usage stats being server-scoped
 
oh yeah
have fun with that
 
4:53 PM
such fun very learn
 
i went through hell trying to repro optimize for sequential key not working on partitioned tables like i saw in a client thing
no dices!
 
none whatsoever?
lame
 
A ZERO SIDED DIE PETER
 
@ErikDarling Should be fixed now.
 
4:57 PM
the sound of one hand clapping, paul
thankfully it found a buttcheek
 
To clarify the date thing. I very much enjoyed the *hawk* *tuah* video I had just watched, so promoted it in here. I can't help but notice things while watching. The description of dates ascending as 'most recent first' jagged my brain for the second time. The first time, I didn't mention it as it is a small thing, and of no consequence to the point the video is making. I mentioned after the second time because I assumed you would want to know and would take it in the spirit intended.

You can ask for only positive reviews on YouTube, and only supportive comments. You can also ask me for on
@ErikDarling I do not understand this
 
@PaulWhite oh that's just video banter. i want you to be hard on me, because 1) no one else is and b) there are not many people who can be
 
All good then
 
yup
i just wasn't sure if i had said anything else stupid about dates
aside from the filtered index thing that is probably the fault of mezcal
 
Not that I have yet watched
 
5:11 PM
well it could have been chat-related
i am not going to say anything explicitly about dates in the near future
 
That reminds me
@Zikato I had a bit of a think about it, and I am unlikely to write about the compile locks in the near future so feel free (assuming you were holding off on something). It would be a major piece of work and I'm not yet clear on how to make it all minimally relevant
For the moment, I am happy with giving you something more to go on than you had before.
 
i think most people would be rather stunned just to see the behavior documented
 
Young Z might choose to do that. When I write something, I usually want to cover most natural follow-up questions I imagine people will ask. That would make for quite a long article. I might also change my mind! I just don't want to hold Z up.
And I still don't understand what the sound of one hand clapping means.
But then I suppose we can't always get answers to our questions immediately
Or at all, in some cases
 
it's a silent joke i suppose
 
In fact, I don't much care if anyone reading the transcript (i.e. the whole world) wants to write about the thing. I share stuff in here for its own sake most of the time. I waive copyright and moral rights to be identified as the source. For all I know, someone's already written about it.
 
5:21 PM
it's not something i'd write about because i don't do well with extreme technical detail posts
or videos
 
No one reads them anyway
Just six interested people from around the world
 
i only proof read them apparently
 
ha ha ha
 
I re-read my recent post on why batch sort spills were slow yesterday
Because I had a question I didn't know the answer to
I found the answer
 
5:22 PM
that's a dense one
 
I suppose I should put a TL;DR at the top
> Microsoft h8 u and employ interns to write code based on Wikipedia searches for algorithms
 
yay gud gud clap
the "are we there yet?" guide to technical blogging
 
The funny thing is the main path for (in-memory) sorting is exquisite
The spill case is something my mum might suggest
I might take another shot at inconsistent execution plan timings
I might unilaterally delete my entire body of work and go open a sandwich shop
The world is v unpredictable
Something else entirely might happen
 
5:40 PM
@PaulWhite what a power move
 
It does have that attraction. Plus the free sandwiches
0
A: Could this question be salvaged? If so, how?

Paul WhiteIt's not a great question even after eight (minor) edits. At different times, it has been (implicitly) about any database system (revisions 1 & 2), about Postgres (revisions 3 & 4), or Microsoft SQL Server (revisions 5-8). The first vote to close occurred just after revision 6 (adding sql-server)...

How much time & effort can one dodgy question consume
 
@PaulWhite good thing i download it all
 
Pisses me off Solar Winds revoked all our access so we can't keep content up to d8 over there
 
can you repro on your own site
 
Naturally, I have the source, yes. Do I have the time and stamina to copy/paste all the missing stuff, customize the formatting, and most importantly, rehome the images.
And being duplicate content hosted elsewhere with many gr8er views, it makes me look like a spammer or rip-off artist to search engines.
Never mind someone wrote to me once on sql.kiwi accusing me of stealing content from SQLPerformance.com
 
5:56 PM
all good points, i guess it would only matter for the posts that require updating, or that you feel a way about
 
Or that I don't want to go away when Solar Winds next leaks a cruical password
 
Besides, from time to time, some helpful person will point out a typo and I can't bear knowing it's there
Honestly, I don't think they deliberately revoked access either
 

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