Switching to philosophy after a PhD in mathematics

Question

I'm currently finishing a PhD in mathematics from a university in Europe ranked top 10 in the world. I've always been torn between philosophy and mathematics, and I'd like to give philosophy a chance (now that I have the "safety net" of a PhD in mathematics). Also, for personal reasons, I'd like to move to the US. It turns out, at least according to the various admissions webpages, that doing a second undergraduate degree in the US is not as easy as I thought it'd be (even disregarding issues about funding, etc). Hence, my questions are:

1) Why are top US Philosophy departments (e.g. Harvard, UC Berkeley, ...) reticent to admit students already holding an undergrad degree in a different subject? In general, is the rule "no admission for students already holding a degree" as strict as it sounds, or can there be exceptions, depending on the context?

2) In said top US institutions, how common is "by-passing" the second undergrad degree and being admitted directly to a graduate program in philosophy?

Answer 1

Maybe you do not know what an undergraduate degree at an American university means. You do not study, say, philosophy, you "major" in it. Depending on the university and your own choices, you may take anywhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of your courses in the area. You will also be taking basic courses on writing, social sciences, very broad courses in the sciences, and so forth, that to many well educated Europeans would feel like high school all over again. The idea of getting a PhD and then coming back for an undergraduate degree would be regarded as crazy by most American universities. I agree.

In general, yes, a PhD in subject X should get you out of having to do an undergraduate degree in Y and you should be thinking of enrolling directly in a PhD program in Y. But forgive me while I pick apart your question a bit.

I've always been torn between philosophy and mathematics, and I'd like to give philosophy a chance (now that I have the "safety net" of a PhD in mathematics).

The idea that someone regards a PhD in mathematics as a safety net is very amusing (or bemusing?) to me. If you have always been torn between mathematics and philosophy and got a PhD in mathematics, surely you must have devoted some serious study to philosophy, right? If the answer is "no" then I don't really understand the situation. If the answer is "yes" then I hope you have been exploring the connections between mathematics and philosophy, which is something appropriate for someone considering doing multiple PhDs.

If you want to study an area of philosophy with connections to mathematics (most obviously, philosophy of mathematics, but there are many other areas of modern philosophy which draw upon mathematics), then having a PhD in mathematics at a "world top 10 university" should be a tremendous advantage. The level of mathematical expertise you bring will probably be superior to that of some of the faculty you would be working with. Thus at the very least you should be looking for some kind of specially worked out, accelerated graduate program. I would encourage you to also look for postdoctoral and other temporary faculty positions: these can be places to transition from one field to another.

The desire to start up an undergraduate program after having received a PhD at a top place is frankly a bit worrisome to me. You've probably spent your entire adult life as a student, roughly 10 years of it. You now want to turn around and spend another roughly more 10 years as a student? That's about a third of your adult life. Don't you have other things that you want to do?

Added: Although I do not think you should consider enrolling in an undergraduate degree program, if you really haven't taken any courses in philosophy at the undergrad level [by the way, in the US it would be really screwy for someone to have a lifelong interest in X and Y, do a PhD in X and never take an undergraduate course in Y; but maybe less so in Europe] then I think you should enroll in -- or audit, or whatever -- at least one or two as a non-degree student. You just need some amount of assurance that academic philosophy is anything like what you think it is.

Answer 2

The counter-question is, why do you want a second degree in philosophy?

Part of what a PhD teaches you is to teach yourself things. Many a PhD-holding scientist has branched into other related fields through self-study and connections/collaborations with other scholars, rather than doing a formal course of study. I know a neuroscientist who teaches in a biology department; I know several psychologists who have expanded into work in other disciplines, including applied statistics, political science, economics, business, and sociology. I've also come across the websites of philosophers who do research at the intersection of the physical sciences and philosophy, or at math and philosophy. Sometimes that expansion is formal - they take classes or earn a second degree (usually a master's) in the field, but usually it's more informal.

So I think first you need to figure out what you want to do with the philosophy degree. Is it just to satisfy your curiosity, or do you want to do significant research at the intersection of the fields? Both of those goals can probably be accomplished without getting a second bachelor's degree in philosophy. By your own admission you already have significant coursework in philosophy; you could continue to take classes as a non-degree student until you have the knowledge you need to do the research you want. You can start a research collaboration with philosophers interested in that intersection. I don't think philosophy does postdocs the same way that the sciences do, but you might find a humanistic postdoc that will take you on. An example are the Mellon postdoctoral fellowships that are at several universities; you'd have to make a really compelling case, though, because they are reserved for people with PhDs in the humanities and humanistic social sciences.

To more directly answer your original questions:

1) I doubt most people could answer that. The simplest reason is probably because they want to focus their resources on first-degree students. They may also reason that second-bachelor's students are less serious and invested (fair or not). There are also financial reasons; most schools and U.S. federal programs do not provide financial assistance for second-degree students. You'd probably have to ask the schools themselves for the exact answer. (It's not a departmental thing, either - the entirety of Harvard College doesn't admit second-degree students, not just philosophy). The rule is usually strict with no exceptions.

2) In very general, it's pretty common. To be more specific, though, you'd have to have an undergraduate preparation they deem sufficient to begin the graduate program. So if you didn't have an undergrad degree in philosophy but you'd taken 7 or 8 undergrad philosophy classes (and did well), and you also had a mathematics BA and indicated you wanted to study the intersection between mathematics and philosophy, an MA program in philosophy might admit you. However, very few PhD programs will take you, because most U.S. institutions have a policy whereby they don't admit people to do second PhDs. If you already have a PhD in any field, you typically can't do another one very easily.