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I purchased my own router and modem years ago to avoid the infamous $5 rental fee, but recently noticed at some point it reappeared on my monthly billing. I thought it was strange, called the ISP and talked to a CSR. I was then told that the $5 is not for equipment, it's so that "your internet will support wifi".

I was incredulous about it at first, but on second thought I wasn't 100% that it isn't possible, since after all they can control the delivered firmware and whatnot, etc.

Can someone confirm or debunk this?

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  • So you're running your own modem, and attached to its LAN port, you've added your own WiFi router which you're using as an access point? Please clarify your setup.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 15, 2019 at 10:28
  • Yes, I have an Arris SURFboard (SB6190) with a Netgear Nighthawk X4S (R7800). The ISP is Charter Spectrum, so I have a coaxial coming into the house to the modem, from there it's ethernet to router, then router to devices for everything with an ethernet jack, wifi is mostly for mobile devices. The router is set as DHCP, and I point DNS to Google's and OpenDNS for redundant. There's an unmanaged switch, but no other repeater / AP, straightforward setup.
    – Arctiic
    Commented Nov 15, 2019 at 10:36

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ISPs may have control over modems, but only their own devices that they ship to you. This means that in theory they can control whether that modem has particular WiFi capabilities, if it has a built-in WiFi access point (many modems don't).* WiFi setup is not the main purpose of that control plane though; the ISP needs to perform checks against the modem in case of connection issues, send firmware updates etc. TR-069 is an example of a protocol that can be used to remote-configure customer equipment.

If you are using your own modem, the ISP will not be able to control it. This has its benefits and drawbacks. In many cases, you may not get any kind of customer support, since the ISP will claim any connection problem to be caused by your own equipment. This is the reason why some ISPs do not allow third-party modems to be used, which they may be able to prevent from registering on their service.

But let's assume you're using the ISP's modem and they can theoretically control it. Even then, they won't be able to interfere with your local WiFi access. Since you have your own WiFi router plugged into the LAN port of the modem, and you're using that router to provide WiFi access, it's separated from the control plane of the modem, and it's nothing the ISP can influence.**

The $5 has nothing to do with providing any capabilities whatsoever. If you're not using their equipment, you shouldn't have to pay that fee.

* With respect to WiFi, well, there are special features that could be enabled. For example, where I live, one ISP offers a special type of guest WiFi that can be used by any customer of the ISP, even if they don't know my personal WiFi password. This means I can travel around the country and use other people's Internet connection through that special WiFi.

** The ISP will not be able to influence anything downstream since AFAIK there are no control protocols to do so. To the ISP, even if they could get a list of the devices connected to the modem (which they probably could), they would not be able to prevent your own WiFi access point from providing WiFi signal.

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  • That's what I thought, and I repeated it back to the CSR several times out of disbelief when he said this. The guy either truly believes what he was saying, or he'd make a damn good poker player.
    – Arctiic
    Commented Nov 15, 2019 at 10:56
  • And not that it matters I guess, but I specifically picked the highest performance modem and router listed on their list of compatible devices that was (at the time) published as a support article. However, after a few months they stopped enumerating correctly from the ISP's portal page (haven't checked if the list became deprecated or something), even though the initial registration worked and they showed up fine before.
    – Arctiic
    Commented Nov 15, 2019 at 11:01
  • Customer support people aren't usually technically knowledgeable and have to follow a particular script.
    – slhck
    Commented Nov 15, 2019 at 11:05
  • Whenever I think back to this incident, I find it ever harder to believe it actually happened. Regardless of their lack of technical knowledge, and regardless of their training procedures and materials, why is there no culpability for what is essentially economically-motivated fraud? In my industry (food safety), there was an infamous case called PCA; of course, nobody (that I'm aware of) is dying from what ISP's are doing, but I think the same level of culpability should apply regardless: just because you're just "doing..
    – Arctiic
    Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 10:06
  • ..your job" or following the instructions of your superiors doesn't mean you deserve immunity when SHTF. I have no doubt that a good number of these representatives have a good head on their shoulders — at least on account of their linguistic ability — and they should have put two and two together themselves, especially when considering the likelihood that they've dealt with configuring a home network of their own in this day and age.
    – Arctiic
    Commented Jul 14, 2020 at 10:06

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