When Christine Lagarde became Europe's top central banker, she had one demand: That no one restrain her voice on women's issues

Inflation, banking shocks, and overheated employment have focused the world’s attention on governing bodies like the European Central Bank and the U.S. Federal Reserve. Christine Lagarde , the President of the ECB, has used that spotlight not just to help steer Europe's economy, but, uniquely, to highlight gender disparities in the global workforce.

For nearly 25 years, Lagarde’s career has been marked by a series of firsts as a woman in roles that have historically been held by men. She was the first first female Chairman at the international law firm Baker McKenzie , the first to be appointed as France's finance minister, and again the first as Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund . So her steadfast commitment to close the gender gap coheres to her own professional experiences, and she’s stayed true to her convictions, even if it means bucking the norms. In 2019, when she was appointed as head of the ECB, she took a bold stance, making it clear upfront that in addition to her primary focus on monetary policy, she would insist on speaking up on the issues most important to her.

So when we scheduled a This Is Working interview on the eve of International Women’s Day, there were many topics of interest to me. But for Christine, one subject was top of mind and entirely nonnegotiable: equality for women in the workforce.

When I first sat down to talk to Christine, I was curious to know, based on the data the ECB has access to, along with her own insights, how the current economy might be holding women back.

Here are some edited highlights of our conversation:

“Ever since Covid, I believe that women have been more exposed, more vulnerable and more victim of the current economic situation. Now you’ll say, ‘Why is that so?’ If you look back at early [2020] when Covid hit, you remember we were talking about those on the frontline? Many of those on the frontline were women. We were talking about kids being at home and everybody being locked down. Who was looking after kids? Who was looking after the elderly? Who was trying to keep some sort of balance in this very, very strange, disturbed way of living? It was the woman. In those days, pretty much across the world in advanced and less advanced economies, there was more domestic violence.

"Who were the victims? Women. So, the whole Covid period and subsequent recovery was a very difficult moment and very difficult economic phase for women. Now, because we are taking one shock after the other, post Covid, post recovery, we are now being hit by very high energy prices that have led to inflation which is sort of feeding on its own. I won't go into details, but those who are the prime victims and the first ones to suffer from inflation, who are the most vulnerable — when you think of it, single parent families, in particular, are taking the hit. Single parent families, that rings like women. So, I would say that the current economic situation and this succession of shocks that we have suffered from Covid there on till now, have particularly hit women. And, it's a fact that is demonstrated by what I have just mentioned. We are seeing it, we know it, and I'm very concerned about it. One additional fact, because education was restrained during the Covid period. A lot of kids actually miss out school. Well, guess what? Those that missed out most and did not catch up were little girls. Less so in advanced economies, but on a global basis, very much so.”

It sounds like you're laying out a need for both governments and private businesses to play a role here in erasing these equity challenges of the last couple of years. What, specifically, do you think is needed?

"I'm going to borrow from previous experience and the IMF in particular because we at the time did a lot of research and work on what's missing. And you know, I use my four Ls. 

"The first one is the law. There are still many countries around the globe where the law itself, whether it's the constitution, or secondary legislation, includes discriminatory provisions that are setting women aside. So that's number one. And what we see is that when the law is equal for all and reestablishes equity and equality, then it improves the situation and we've seen many instances of that.

"The second L for me is learning, investing in girls education, making sure that there is access to knowledge and to education for a decent period of time for all girls, is also critically important. There was a G7 meeting back in Canada about four years ago, where all the advanced economies committed to do at least seven years of education for all girls. I think that needs to be delivered upon. 

"My third L is labor. The labor market has to be accessible to all women. And any discrimination, any gender gap that is translating into salary differences has to be filled. The Secretary General of the United Nations just recently indicated that if we carry on the way we do, it will take 300 years to close that gap. Well, we have to be better than that. We have to close that gap at a much faster pace. And I think that one of the things that the corporate world can do, is really look into details as to why it is that there is a gender gap. Where are they missing out? What is the period of their life when they are lagging behind and late compared with men? 

"And my final L is leadership. We still today see too few women in leadership positions. That is true in parliament, in politics, in the corporate world, and pretty much across the board. 

"So, if we focus on those four Ls, fix the law, make sure that there is no discrimination and that equality is restored so that there can be equity for all genders. If we make sure that there is education and that learning is available, if we make sure that the labor market is accessible and the salary gap, in particular, but the opportunity gap as well, is filled, and leadership is available and can be demonstrated by women who want it, I think we will have made huge progress.

Let’s talk about that last L: Last year at a speech in Germany you said, “Female leaders possess certain qualities that can be beneficial in times of crisis.” What did you mean by that?

“You know, I did not say that out of the blue and without some research having been done or surveys being conducted. And, it was, in fact, during the Covid period, that women in leadership positions were more trusted, had a better reach to people that were able to demonstrate more empathy and sympathy. And that was recognized as a good set of skills or qualities that could help lead in times of deep crisis and huge questioning about the future of our lives. So, it was demonstrated by the trust that was given to those female leaders. Look at, for instance, the  Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern. She really epitomizes, in my view, that set of skills that have helped her lead her country in difficult and troubled times, not only Covid but also a terrible terrorist attack at the time. There were other female leaders that demonstrated similar skill sets. It's not to renege on what men can demonstrate as well. I think that there are men who can demonstrate this, often associated to female skills as well.”

But when you say women are great during times of crisis, isn’t that what leads to the ‘glass cliff,’ where women are put into impossible jobs at companies on the brink?

“That's a very good point. I have often seen women being selected, promoted and advocated as leaders when it's a mess. I have experienced that myself. I tell you, when I was encouraged to take the leadership at Baker McKenzie as chairman of the firm, globally, the situation was very messy. There were lots of things that were completely out of control from a budget point of view. There were dissensions within the institution. Partners were at a loss as to whether or not there was really a vision. And then surprise, surprise, why don't we ask a woman to do the job? 

“Later on I had a similar experience where everybody wanted to, well, not everybody but some people wanted to take my job as Minister of Finance for France until such time when the financial crisis hit. And at that point in time, there were not so many volunteers to take the job because it was just pretty tough. And you could only, you know, take a blow out of that situation.

“So, it's often the case that when it's messy, when it's hard, when you run out of options, the establishment thinks, ‘Why don't we call a woman? Not much to lose.’ Well, it so happens that often women actually make the case that they can do it, even when it's a mess.”

Before taking your current position, you insisted that the European Council understand that you weren’t going to limit your voice to topics typical for a central banker. Why was it so important to you for them to understand you’d be talking about the issues of women in the economy?

“In all the jobs that I have done, all the positions that I've held, I have always tried to make sure that women were at the table and could participate in the process. And there was no reason in the world for me, even as a central bank governor, head of the ECB, to shut that voice down and to forget about this concern that I've had all my life. 

“So I made the point very clearly in Parliament. I said, ‘If you vote for me, bear in mind that I will continue to have a voice on those issues.’ So yes, it was important to me. You know, I was lucky in my life to meet some extraordinary women. And one of them was Madeleine Albright, who has passed now, but Madeleine was always a strong advocate of women as well. And the end of her first book is very clear. And it says there should be a special place in hell for women who do not support women. I have met Madeleine several times when we sat together on those issues of women in leadership, of women in politics, of women on boards, because she was also very concerned about that. And I think she's right. And we have to just give each other a hand and that's my way of doing it.”

Even beyond that, you’re a proponent of the need for central bankers to be more communicative.

“In central banking, communication is one of the tools in the toolbox. There other elements. Interest rates is clearly the one that we're using at the moment. We will use all the tools that we have, and we will do whatever is needed to return inflation to 2% which is our target for price stability. But communication is one component that is used, and that is very efficiently used in some instances. So it's an art. I'm not pretending that I master it to perfection. I work on it. I constantly work on it. And I strive to improve and I think that many other central bank governors around the world are in the same position as me. They know that when they speak, when they comment, when they explain, it actually carries a long way in trying to implement the monetary policy that has been decided.”

Here in the US, one of the things that people are watching are mass layoffs, and as we know, often the roles that are seen as the most expendable are held by women. Do you think that government needs to play a role in supporting women in this area? Should private sector leaders also be thinking about this? 

“I think that there are incredible opportunities that are wasted if women are left to the side of the economic road. There have been various studies conducted by McKinsey but also more recently by the OECD that give actually a number to how much dollar is left on the table when women are not associated with economic development and with the labor market developments. So I think it is in the economic interest of the corporate sector, but also the public sector if they are hiring to actually include women and make sure that there is plenty of diversity around and it's you know, when I say diversity, it's not just gender diversity, it's a broader sense of diversity in order to have just a better way of making decisions and and more economic progress and success. There's plenty of studies now which have been conducted and which are based on empirical data that demonstrate that having a woman at the table, that having a woman in the workplace, is actually of benefit and of profit to the organizations that embrace this aspiration of diversity and inclusion.���

For more from this interview, you can download the companion podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever else you listen to your podcasts. Or just click here:

Along with my co-host, Sr. Producer Nina Melendez, I’ll bring you post-interview insights, top takeaways, and even share a bit of behind-the-scenes trivia. You can also jump into the conversation on LinkedIn by sharing a post or comment with the hashtag #ThisIsWorking, or drop us a line - you can reach us at ThisIsWorking@Linkedin.com.