Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion

I sometimes read things on a random whim.

For some reason, "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater" by Kurt Vonnegut caught my eye today so I'm reading it.

Oh, boy, Kurt Vonnegut. Have you read his work before, Don? I haven't tried it, but I've read about him. Here's a link:


Let us know what you think of the book, Don.

I think Vonnegut died recently. Seems to me I read about his death a short time ago.

Yes, he died about a year ago or so.

I have read some of his writing before.

If you've ever seen the movie "Back To School" he also had a great part in that one. That's where Rodney Dangerfield, a rich guy, decided to go to college so he can be there with his son.

Sally Kellerman plays his English professor and assigns him to do a paper on Kurt Vonnegut. Rodney hires Kurt Vonnegut to write the paper for him. (He also hires NASA to do his astronomy paper.)

Rodney gets an "F" on his Kurt Vonnegut paper because the professor says she knows he didn't write it. She then goes on to say that whoever did write it doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut. Rodney then calls Vonnegut on the phone and tells him he's stopping payment on the check.

It's a great movie.

Vonnegut is a tough read because sometimes you have to stop and think about what he's saying. Sometimes his satire goes over your head as well.

You have to read some every now and then though.

It keeps you sharp.

Don, you wrote:
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"Vonnegut is a tough read because sometimes you have to stop and think about what he's saying. Sometimes his satire goes over your head as well.

You have to read some every now and then though.

It keeps you sharp."
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Yes, I have to agree with you there. I remember trying to get into one of his books and giving up on it. I hate it when things go over my head. :)

I also hate ambiguity. I have the following quote about ambiguity in my quotation files:
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"What is important is to keep learning, to enjoy challenge, and to tolerate ambiguity...." -Martina Horner, President of Radcliffe College
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I try to do that.

Don, thanks for the amusing description of the movie "Back to School". I enjoyed it. I don't go to the movies much. I hope folks saw my post here at the following link: ===>
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

Once again, thank you for the contributions you are making to this group. The Post-Star newspaper interviewed me about this group and I'm told that the article will appear in next Saturday's newspaper. . :)

I think Slaughter House Five is a terrific Vonnegut book.

It's basically about World War Two, but also about young men (Vonnegut calls them children) as soldiers, and then the aftermath. There are some science fiction elements, too, which maybe doesn't work for everybody. But it does work for a lot of people.

Yes, Andy, _Slaughter House Five_ is the one book whose author I remember... even though I haven't read it. The title sure sticks in your mind. Didn't they make a movie of it? Thanks for mentioning it. I've just now added it to this group's bookshelf. What other category might I give it besides "fiction" and "suggested reading"?

PS-Here is a cover-link to _Slaughter House Five_:

I think my favorite book by Kurt Vonnegut is Welcome to the Monkey House. It's a collection of short stories. Slaughterhouse-Five is probably next.

I agree with you, Don. He often takes me off guard. He seems so up front sometimes, often crass, such as his play with 'beaver' in ... Breakfast of Champions (Maybe? It's been a while - too long.) Then he writes another sentence that is subtle & has me thinking about it for ages.

It sounds like we all agree about Vonnegut.

Hey, wait a minute Don! LOL I didn't quite agree about enjoying Vonnegut!* :) I suggested that to me he's a bit too ambiguous. As Jim suggested, he's "subtle", and Jim seemed to have enjoyed that part of his style. You mentioned that his satire might go over the reader's head.

Perhaps I don't get Vonnegut's references. Could that be it? Does he make references the reader has to be acquainted with? That would be a weakness on my part.

I wonder how many people have difficulty getting into Vonnegut for the same reasons that I do. Of course, I could try harder... :)

*P.S. Maybe we all agreed that Vonnegut sometimes takes the reader off guard, in different ways.

I think I enjoyed Vonnegut the most when I was a teenager or in my 20's. He's offbeat, kind of a rebel.

I really got a kick out of Venus on the Half-Shell and Others by Philip José Farmer who played Kilgore Trout for the occasion. It wasn't a great book, but it was fun to read after Kilgore appeared in so many of Vonnegut's books.

Jim, I just now followed your link to _Venus on the Half-Shell..._. I read the description and learned about Philip Jose Farmer and how he "impersonated" classic characters and authors, causing a brouhaha in the literary world. I never knew about that, even though I had heard of the title.

What is the meaning of the title, "Venus on the Half Shell"? I know that oysters and clams are served on the half-shell, but what has that to do with Venus? Anybody know?

Joy, check out the painting at Venus' Wiki entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(m...

I think the traditional myth of Venus must have something to do with a clam shell or oyster shell. I haven't read a lot of mythology, so I don't know for sure. Maybe if I read the Wiki entry?

I don't recall why the book was named what it was, Joy. The big joke about Trout is that while he writes SF, his publisher always puts pornographic covers on his books. Here's a website with some fun & interesting facts about it all.
Kilgore Trout

Vonnegut was making fun of
Theodore Sturgeon with the character, somewhere along the way. Sturgeon was a good friend of one of my favorite SF writers, Robert A. Heinlein. I think they belonged to the same nudist colony & had some other attitudes in common. One of Sturgeon's stories is about incest, titled "If all men were brothers, would you let your sister marry one?"

Philip Jose Farmer wrote a book called Lord Tyger which is a more modern take on Tarzan. Basically, a rich man buys an area & recreates Edgar Rice Burroughs world as best he can, including an infant who becomes Tarzan. It's interesting.

I think it was this bunch that made me quit wanting to know too much about authors. ;-)

Andy - Thanks for finding that pic of Venus on the halfshell. (g) Good find! I skimmed the article at wiki very quickly, but didn't find a reference to the shell. I guess we have to research Botticelli. (g)

If anyone finds out more about why Venus is standing on a shell in the Botticelli painting, please let us know.

But wasn't that a clever title for a book... it sure must make folks curious. On the other hand, I was never curious about it until now. :)

Below is a link to a copy of the pic at wiki, which Andy already posted: ====>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(m...

Jim - Thanks for those links.

The situation is a bit confusing until we realize that Trout wasn't a real person. (g)

Farmer sure had a good imagination.

I know what you mean about not wanting to know too much about authors. In the book, _Harriet and Isabella_, we find out terrible things about Henry Ward Beecher. I just learned that here at Goodreads. The book description is at link below: ===>
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15...

Joy, i just skimmed this thread and saw some confusion regarding the "Venus on the Half Shell" title. Not familiar with the book, but "Venus on the Half Shell" is a well-known joke of a reference to the Botticelli painting titled "The Birth of Venus" which depicts Venus arriving at the shore from the sea as an adult woman is an often referenced work and one of the few remaining Botticelli paintings. Due to Pagan influence, most of his works were burned by the Roman Catholic Church and lost forever, but "Birth of Venus" or "Venus on the Half Shell" remains and can frequently be seen or referenced in pop culture. This joking reference to the painting as the title of the book suggests parady and birth. Perhaps this ties into the book's content. Having not read the book, i may have just stepped over the line with this suggestion, but with this piece of art information, you may be able to anchor the title to the story more securely. Good luck!

Stoneboy17, you're likely on the mark. I'll have to dig the book out & skim through it. It's been too long since I last read it. Thanks.

Hi Stoneboy,
Thank you for adding to our information about Botticelli and his paintings. What a shame that his paintings were burned.

At least we can understand the significance of the shell, since, as you say, Venus is "arriving at the shore from the sea".

I haven't read the book either, but perhaps someone who has read it can tell us if there is something of note in the book, something related to the idea of birth.

We'll unravel this parody-mystery yet. :)

Jim - When I posted my message above, I didn't see your message. I'm not sure it was even there. Yet, your message is #18 and mine is #19. I wonder why that is. Looks like you posted about an hour before I did. Yet I swear your messsage wasn't there when I posted. Strange.

Philip Jose Farmer writes some weird stuff too!

I read Dayworld. That one is about when the world becomes so overpopulated that people are only allowed to live one day/week and they get drugged up in pods for the other days. Weird stuff...

Oi! Weird is right. Here's a link to the book, _Dayworld_:


Thanks, Don.

Farmer has a sense of humor & a skewed sense of reality, no doubt about it. He's written some great stuff. If you get a chance, try Lord Tyger. A wealthy eccentric creates his own Tarzan around 1970. Warning, there is some sexually explicit stuff in the book. Not much, but Farmer made this very realistic & this 'Tarzan' is 18 or so, if I recall right. He's also raised as a savage.

Below is a cover-link to a book which has _Lord Tyger_ and another novel in it:


The story sounds intriguing.

I wonder what kind of a life the author, Philip Jose Farmer, had. Below is a link to Wikipedia page about him: ===>
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J...
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It says:
"Philip José Farmer (born January 26, 1918) is an American author, principally known for his science fiction and fantasy novels and short stories.

It doesn't tell much about his private life. I'll bet that was interesting too.

I started the Riverworld series by Farmer a while ago. It had great potential. Every person who ever lived wakes up on the banks of The River after their death. Sounds fantastic, right?
The first book was pretty good so I bought the rest of the series, but by book three, it was so off base that I haven't been able to finish the series as of yet. I do plan on getting back to them in the hopes that the original question, Why are they there, finally gets answered.
All in all, Riverworld was a pretty interesting place.
Lord Tyger sounds interesting too, I may have to try that someday.

Jackie, thanks for telling us about Philip José Farmer's series, "Riverworld". Tell me, in what way was book three "off base" (as you say)?

Below is a link to the "Riverworld Saga": ====>
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http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/98...
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The cover link is below:

It started out with everyone who ever lived from every time period waking up on the banks of the river all at once. Big mysteries: How did they get there? Who has the power to raise them from the dead with their memories fully intact? What is the purpose of being resurrected?
These are the kinds of questions that drive me "to know". I get so involved and excited 'to know', so when none of the questions get answered, I'm disappointed. By the third book I should have gotten something substantial. Instead, it just kept getting put off by people banding together and committing war and forced slavery upon on another, the search for raw materials to create weapons of murder and vessels to reach the end of the river. I felt that people hadn't learned anything in their new life and that's disheartening for me. I mean, it is fantasy after all, I don't want or need a world where people are the same as us, and showing the negative side of humanity.
It just seemed to get off topic as to the original questions from the first book. I'm sure Farmer will get around to it, or at least I hope so.
These first three book still have the quest to find the answers, but they get sidetracked. I don't like to wait too long for the payoff.
In the first book 'To Your Scattered Bodies Go', the main character Richard Burton, explores the Riverworld. Interesting and I enjoyed it.
The second, 'The Fabulous Riverboat' is Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) the main character and he builds a riverboat to travel the river to find out the answers. I didn't like that the focus was changed to a new main character.
The third, 'The Dark Design' has Richard Burton again as our main character, now building a dirigible to once again try to find the answers.

I understand the need to keep some mystery so we'll read the next books. I like when I get a full answer to one of my questions by the end of the first book, then I can wait for the next question to be answered in the next one. But no answers! AHHH! I could go crazy!
The next in the series is 'The Magic Labyrinth' and I think they find the answers.
I'll read it, but my enthusiasm has waned.

I see your point,Jackie. It's almost as if the reader is being "strung along". It would be nice if we could contact the writers and express our feelings about their books to them. Some of them might appreciate it.

You can email some authors through their web sites.

I have emailed both Dean Koontz and Brad Meltzer and gotten real emails back from them, personally.

Good idea, Don.

Wiki says that Philip Jose Farmer is 90 years old now. Riverworld was first published in 1979, over 30 years ago. So I guess it's too late to write to Farmer.

Hmmm, what author would I like to ask some questions? That's something to think about. (g)

One author I met at the Chronicle Fair answered a question. I had asked her if any of her characters were based on real people. She said yes. Turns out it was her husband. (lol)

Don,
Dean Koontz is my favorite thriller author. A few years ago, I saw a movie that was a blatant rip-off of the beginning of 'Intensity' and then it devolved into some twisted garbage. I was outraged! I opened one of Dean's novels and wrote to the address in back letting him know.
Within the week I got a response back, a form better, but Dean wrote a comment to me in his own hand! I was impressed that he took the time to do that. Since then, I have been receiving his 'Useless News' newsletters which is anything BUT useless, full of info on his latest novels, what's coming out, what he's working on, and some typical Dean silliness.
Last night I started his latest novel, Your Heart Belongs To Me.

I've never read Dean Koontz's books although, naturally, I've heard a lot about him. I suppose he'd be in the "suspense" and "thriller" categories, but I'm not sure. What categories/tags/shelves would you assign to him?

I put him under Thriller. He could be Suspense also.
He's a excellent author, a Master in story-telling. He usually hooks you right from the first chapter. Oddly, my current read is still in the set-up, I'm on page 32.
I didn't like the novels written under his psuedonyms and republished under his name. They were too long and drawn out, a completely different style of writing.
These are some of my favorite novels by him, ones I could not put down. I'd stay up all night reading and give myself a headache. But I didn't care, I had to know what would happen.
False Memory
Intensity
Watchers
Lightning
Odd Thomas

THANKS JOY!
It worked!

You're welcome, Jackie. Glad you had success with posting those links. Thanks for the titles. I've saved them as reminders in case I want to try reading Koontz.

Sometimes that type of link at Goodreads doesn't look like a link on my screen until I hover over it. It's just a slightly different color from the regular text. I wonder how it shows up on other folks' screens.

I usually know it's a link if I see the http, but in that case, there is no http, of course.

I didn't think it worked either because of no http. But I tried it and it does.
I have it as a light pea green color text.

Jackie, my links show up as light pea green too, but the color of the text is not very different from the regular text. It should be more obvious as a link, IMO. Should I complain to Goodreads?

Hands up... how many people think I should request that the clickable links be made brighter and more different in color from the regular text?

Definitely a different color.

Glad you agree, Jackie. Anyone else?

The color of links is a function of your browser, not GoodReads - well, it can be both, but you can override their settings.

In Firefox 3.0, go to Tools - Options & on the Main tab, Fonts - click on the "Colors..." button. At the bottom of that box, uncheck the "Allow pages to choose their own colors..." Then it will use the colors you select above - usually blue for unvisited links & purple for visited ones.

In Internet Explorer 7, go to Tools - Options & on the General tab, click the "Accessibility" button at the lower right. Put a check mark in the top option, "Ignore Colors specified in web pages".

In both cases, you might not get underlines under hyperlinks, but at least they'll turn colors, leaving the text black, so you'll be able to spot links quickly, including those you have used.

Am rushing out to the dentist. Will reply later.
Oops, app't cancelled because of snow/sleet.

Jim, what other colors will be affected besides the links? I'm so afraid of upsetting the apple cart.

Perhaps I'll wait until my sons are visiting so they can be there in case things go awry when I change the color settings.

Thanks for letting me know about this.
Joy

Try it & see, Joy. It's easy to put back on - just reverse the setting. No need to restart the browser or anything.

In my case, when I do it, GR looks better, but my Gmail isn't as nice, so I let the page colors stand.

Jim wrote: "Try it & see, Joy. It's easy to put back on - just reverse the setting. No need to restart the browser or anything.

In my case, when I do it, GR looks better, but my Gmail isn't as nice, so I ..."
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Jim,
You don't know what a chicken I am about changing settings. It's really a kind of phobia. Little by little I've learned how to be comfortable making certain tech changes on my computer, but I still need my sons walking me through the first time I do things. I've come a long way since 1995 when I got my first laptop!

I love learning how everything works. That's part of my motivation.

Take the plunge, Joy. It won't hurt. Believe me, I understand the phobia. I have a lot of people like that. In this case, it really is simple & isn't permanent. Just jot down the instructions or print them out so you can easily change it back.

I've been helping people with computers for twenty years now. I've had people who thought the mouse was a foot pedal, the CD a coffee cup holder. I write instructions all the time. It really won't hurt a thing.

Jim wrote: "Take the plunge, Joy. It won't hurt. Believe me, I understand the phobia. I have a lot of people like that. In this case, it really is simple & isn't permanent. Just jot down the instructions ..."
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OK, Jim, I'll try it later. I'm still trying to get used to viewing posts in the reverse order with the latest at the top (I just made the change). I don't know why it's such a novelty for me at Goodreads... everything else has the latest message at the top, including my Outlook Express email and my newsgroups. I should be accustomed to it.

Jim wrote: I've been helping people with computers for twenty years now. I've had people who thought the mouse was a foot pedal, the CD a coffee cup holder. I write instructions all the time. It really won't hurt a thing.
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Jim,
You're like a guardian angel from Heaven for me. Thank you for all the time you take to help guide newbies like myself through this technical maze.

Someone from up above must have sent you here. I'm sure of it. (g) Maybe it was my mom in Heaven. She had strange ways of being effective. (g) I could tell you some stories about her... :)

It sure is a way to cure agnosticism. (g)

Thanks for the kind words, Joy. It's not a big deal. If you mess with computers long enough, they occasionally make some sense. Not always though. I have a laptop that continues to crash for one person, but won't for several others.

Talking about laptops crashing, my husband's laptop just bit the dust yesterday. The power connection failed and can't be fixed. So he's rather glum right now. Time for a new laptop. I think I'll start a topic about computers in the non-book related section.

Jim, I have finally taken the plunge. I've adjusted the color of the links on my screen according to your directions in Message #40 of this topic. I've also made the background gray. It's easier on my eyes.

Actually, I've chosen blue for the visited links and purple for the unvisited links. I know that's opposite of the usual set-up, but there seem to be more visited links and I prefer seeing the blue.

Thank you so much for the good advice. The links are so much easier to see now. Before I changed the color, I could hardly differentiate the links from the regular text.

BTW, I've also pressed CTRL + to make the font a bit larger. It's less tiring on my eyes this way.