SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Y'all selected "Unique Systems of Magic" on the December fantasy theme poll, so now we'll be nominating books that fit this theme. I'm going to copy and paste what our sci fi czar, Brad, said when he suggested this theme:

"I figure there is the classic magic system of spell casting, and its closely related variants, which include projecting the casting through wands or the D&D mode of studying to regain a spell once cast.

But then there are those systems which occur in some fantasy that are distinctly magical but have no connection to "casting" or take offer serious alterations to classic casting. The Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through come to mind as fine examples of the former. In those books magic is all conjuration, and the gateway of the conjuration is the mirror. All the magic is channeled through mirrors, or it could be said that it is mirrors. Tigana pops into my mind as an example of the latter (but I know I am forgetting a much better example), wherein true casting power requires a serious sacrifice and the casting itself is not so much a series of spells but a malleable expression of force. Tigana also adds a parallel system of magic that is engaged with through a dreamstate.

I'm not sure that it is easy to define, but those are the things I was thinking of when I threw it out there."

When you make a nomination, I would like you to briefly explain what unique system of magic your suggestion has - just a sentence or two, like Brad's explanation about the mirror above. And please feel free to rebut someone's suggestion if you feel that it is too close to traditional fantasy magic to qualify for this theme.

In order to make it to the final poll for voting, a nomination must be seconded by someone else.

Let's take until the end of Saturday, November 21, EST, to make nominations. I'll put up the poll to select the book on Sunday.

I would gladly re-read Donaldson's Mordant's Need, but would much rather make a dent in my unread pile of fantasy novels.

I quickly reviewed the synopses of all the fantasy books I have on hand and Auralia's Colors The Red Strand by Jeffrey Overstreet. The part describing the magic system in the synopsis states: 'she discovers an unsettling–and forbidden–talent for crafting colors that enchant all who behold them'

Ooooh, majicks! :)

Jim Butcher's Codex Alera springs to mind. All magic is done by employed the strength of "furies" - which I interpret to be spirits (of earth, water, metal and air). No-one's a magician in Alera, they're fury-crafters. I fell in love with Butcher's system of magic right away in 'Furies of Calderon' and it remains one of my favourite series.

My suggestion is
Thirteen Orphans by Jane Lindskold (it has a sequel)
http://www.amazon.com/Thirteen-Orphan...

The magic users here are based on the Chinese Zodiac animals( rat, tiger, snake and such). Casting itself is based upon an "elemental" focus through teh symbols of mah-jongg tiles.

I found it very enjoyable when I read it before.

I'd like to put forth Flesh and Fire. In that fictional universe, wine is the medium by which magic is accessed. Anyone can use a spellwine, but few can create it. The type of magic that a spellwine can be used to do depends on the variety of grape that was used to create it.

I'd recommend "The Atrocity Archives" by Charles Stross where certain advanced mathematical conjectures and theorems have magical powers. Fun read and not too serious, too.

Well, I will officially nominate The Mirror of Her Dreams, from Stephen R. Donaldson's Mordant's Need.

I'll second The Mirror of Her Dreams.

And I will second Aurelia's Colors The Red Strand

I nominate The Thread That Binds the Bones, a Nina Kiriki Hoffman novel. I think she extended it into a series later. It's been a long time since I read it, but I seem to recall the system of magic had to do with an ability to see the threads that connect things to each other and manipulate them. Feel free to dispute if you have a better recollection of it than I have.
It won the Bram Stoker Award.

Any of Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar books, possibly "Arrows of the Queen."

Well, I was completely underestimating how many books would fit this category and didn't think we'd need to 'second' nominations - but since this has already gotten so much activity in the first 55 minutes, let's institute that rule. I'll edit my first post.

I'm liking a lot of the suggestions so far - wine and math and colors? Cool. My only question so far is about the Charles Stross nomination - I only know him as a sci fi author, does he write fantasy, too?

I loved Mercedes Lackey when I was younger, but most of the magic in her Valdemar books strikes me as being pretty traditional. (Or "played straight," as they say on the TV Tropes wiki.)

Piers Anthony in his "Mode" series (Virtual Mode, Fractal Mode) etc. is somewhat juvenile in his plot, but he has developed a very sophisticated system of overlapping parallel universes. Co-existent with these "modes" are magical abilities which wax and wane differently for different characters in different universes. Add in the mathematics of Mandelbrot (and a whole mess of teenage angst) and you have a great blend of Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Magic.

Nikki wrote: "I loved Mercedes Lackey when I was younger, but most of the magic in her Valdemar books strikes me as being pretty traditional. (Or "played straight," as they say on the TV Tropes wiki.)"

I guess I was thinking ESP, telekinesis, etc. -- mind magic supplemented by the 'spirit' horses is a touch unique.

I always thought one of the most interesting aspects of Mistborn The Final Empire was the unique magic system.

Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson just finished reading it and its magic system is pretty unique, Allomancy the burning of metals to manipulate matter or emotions its the first book in a trilogy.

CS Friedman's Feast of Souls features a distinction between two systems of magic: witches (mostly women) who must use their own life force to fuel their magic, and magisters (invariably men, before this book) who use the life forces of others and can be pretty much immortal. The interesting thing to me about the magister power is that they form anonymous bonds with the person they are draining for power until said person dies, and then they have to find another "consort." They pretty much never know who it is they're drawing from. Interesting ethical issues.

How about The Eye of the World? They have a source "pool" of magic they can draw on and channel the elements through. Magic is woven together in threads. Men and women have a different pool to channel from, but the men's pool is polluted.

The Amulet of Samarkand
Jonathan Stroud

The wizard summons a demon who casts the spells. Of course, the more powerful the demon, the more difficult to control. The book is very well written with a strong plot, good characters and is cleverly funny.

I also like the idea of C.S. Friedman, I loved his Coldfire Trilogy.

Erick wrote: "The Amulet of Samarkand
Jonathan Stroud

The wizard summons a demon who casts the spells. Of course, the more powerful the demon, the more difficult to control. The bo..."

oops, sorry, I loved HER Coldfire Trilogy.

Sabriel by Garth Nix employs free magic versus charter magic. The former is natural, wild, and unpredictable; the latter is structured and symbol-based, conjured by marks or a series of marks that represent anything and everything and can be carved or written or imprinted. The main character uses bells of various tones set with the marks to control or influence the dead.

Patrick Rotfuss' The Name of the Wind employs "sympathy," for which the user has to create a mental connection between two things: Think drawing on a smaller heat source to create a larger fire, or breaking a thin splinter to snap the string on a musical instrument several feet away.

The Black Jewels trilogy by award-winning author Anne Bishop. I loved this trilogy and highly recommend it. It's a dark, sexy, disturbing world of magic and hell, where men and women are used as weapons in games of politics and intrigue. The first book is called Daughter of the Blood.

I would recommend The Dying Earth by Jack Vance. I thought the way Vance used magic spells was unique and clever. Not to mention that the books are a ton of fun to read.

Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson

I second Mistborn The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson. I'm in the middle of the third book of the series and I'm still not sure how it's gonna end.

Of course, the Codex Alera books by Jum Butcher. Or The Cheysuli Chronicles by Jennifer Roberson.

Dana wrote: "The Black Jewels trilogy by award-winning author Anne Bishop. I loved this trilogy and highly recommend it. It's a dark, sexy, disturbing world of magic and hell, where men and women are used as we..."

I second this!

i love Butcher's 'Dresden files' series, and i've been planning on looking into 'codex alera', so i'll 3rd that one.

i know several people who love it (including the friend who gave them to me, so i'm not knocking you guys voting for it!), but i way hated the 'mordant's need' books. i remember the female lead as being so pathetically passive that it was grating to get through them.

SuggestThe Alchemyst

I second The Name of the Wind, because I was struck by how unique and well thought out the system of magic was. (It doesn't hurt that it's a fantastic book in its own right).

Sarah Pi wrote: "I nominate The Thread That Binds the Bones, a Nina Kiriki Hoffman novel. I think she extended it into a series later. It's been a long time since I read it, but I seem to recall the s..."

The problem is finding copies. This is one of my favorite books and I'd love to second it but I don't imagine it'll be easy to come by. There is a second novel in the series and at least one short story.

Can I suggest my own
The Flame in the Bowl Unbinding the Stone in this connection? Not only is the magic Tarkas gets stuck with based on music, especially the words, but I also have a different take on elementals, bearing in mind that I don't claim to have read everything and someone else may also have done them the way I did. The emphasis in this book is not so much the magic as what having the magic does to Tarkas' life.

There've been several nominations that haven't explained the way the book's magic system works. Little help?

Books by Piers Anthony are very unique in their magic

I'm a fan of Mercedes Lackey but her books are fairly traditional with their magic using keynodes and leylines (Valdemar Series) and magical elementals (Elemental Series). However, the Bardic Voices series might be varying enough - musical instruments producing magic.

I'm in for Jim Butcher's Codex Alera.

I remember enjoying Alan Dean Foster's Spellsinger — as the title suggests, the protagonist expresses his magic through music. It's been a while since I read it, but I vaguely recall that other forms of art could also be the basis for magic. Many/most of the other characters are anthropomorphized animals.

Wizardborn by David Farland. The magic system was the most interesting I've read about in a long time. Basically, people will donate one of their senses to someone. While the person who receives the sense becomes more powerful, they also have to keep the donor alive, because if the donor dies, they lose the power. Not a bad series; at least the first three or four books were not bad.

Brooke wrote: "Well, I was completely underestimating how many books would fit this category and didn't think we'd need to 'second' nominations - but since this has already gotten so much activity in the first 55..."

You are of course correct that Charles Stross is mainly a SF writer but - as was requested - this book (and the sequel - "the Jennifer morgue" do employ this math-based magic

John wrote: "Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson just finished reading it and its magic system is pretty unique, Allomancy the burning of metals to manipulate matter or emotions its the first book in a trilogy."

I'll fifth it. Mistborn was the first book that came to mind for this theme.

I second (third? fourth?) Sabriel by Garth Nix. I also nominate Widdershins by Charles de Lint, which involves not so much characters doing magic as characters being magic.

Dana wrote: "CS Friedman's Feast of Souls features a distinction between two systems of magic: witches (mostly women) who must use their own life force to fuel their magic, and magisters (invariabl..."

I'll second The Feast of Souls.

The Gathering Storm isn't the final volume. It precedes The Towers of Midnight and A Memory of Light.

Frankly Asmah I don't see how any of those, save maybe Moorcock's, are appropriate.

A Shadow on the Glass by Ian Irvine (The View From the Mirror book 1).

They have to make constructs to channel their magic - not sure if that's a good way of describing it because it's been a few years, but they can't just cast spells or wave a wand, they have to build something first, a small something that, from my memory, seemed quite random.

I second The Amulet of Samarkand, The Name of the Wind and Daughter of the Blood

I second the Codex Alera.
I second The Thread the Binds the Bones by Nina Kiriki Hoffman
I second Flesh and Fire by Laura Gilman

One of my favorite fantasy books involving a new twist on the system of magic is The Outstretched Shadow. I like it because it both creates a new system of magic, suggests how demons may get their magic, and juxtaposes both against a more traditional system of magic. The first system is earth based, (like fantasy hippies), where the practitioners must ask of the powers of the earth to work a spell. The powers will present the mage with the spell cost, which they must agree or disagree to. It may be a small cost, such as finding an injured animal and nursing back to health, to a larger price that may alter the course of their life. The second system of magic, without giving too many spoilers, involves gathering energy from an unknown source, and working it in complex potions/incantations/spells. The demon magic is built up from gathering energy off of tortured/captured peoples/animals. There are a few other magic twists, and all are a slightly different take, including a new twist on both elves and unicorns.

I cannot recommend this book enough. It is not a complex tale, and can be somewhat predictable, but the story and characters are the reason for reading. I have read the whole series three times now, and will do so again.

The moon is a harsh mistress is strictly science fiction

Susanne wrote: "Ooooh, majicks! :)

Jim Butcher's Codex Alera springs to mind. All magic is done by employed the strength of "furies" - which I interpret to be spirits (of earth, water, metal and air). No-one's a ..."

This is a wonderful series. I gobbled them up this summer. Once you start, you can't stop!

I second The Cheysuli Chronicles by Jennifer Roberson.

I nominate the following books all of which I think have unique perspectives on Magic:

Summon the Keeper by Tanya Huff ( a keeper is a person who uses magic to repair holes in the universe caused by hell and bad deeds) These books are light fun and witty a really good combination in urban fantasy and the magical system is unique.

Pawn of Prophecy by David eddings

This first fantasy novel in his five part Belgarion books is a fun novel as the young magician garion learns his craft from his Uncle Belgarath and aunt Polgara. The magical system of using your will through words is interesting and decently unique.

The Barbed Coil by JV Jones. A standalone novel in which the magic comes from writing images or copies of the barbed coil a ring of intricate details. The lord of one land uses his illuminator to draw and get foul monsters from the depths of the ring to conquer foreign lands and it is up to a woman drawn to the world by her smaller ring and her drawings to fight. Unique magic.

I will try to think of others after I make dinner

I also nominate the The Soprano Sorceress by LE Modisset (the magical power of singing is the key here, and Anna, a woman from Earth who is an opera singer has superior powers).