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Comments on news posted 2024-04-26 07:34:13: • The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Government Oversight Of ISPs And Aiming To Protect Consumer Access To The Internet [nytimes. ..

Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

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Thistool

Member

Verizon trying to be one sprint

Lol Verizon keeps trying to spin itself into Sprint. This is hilarious.

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
127.0.0.1

14 recommendations

tc1uscg

Member

Re: Verizon trying to be one sprint

said by Thistool:

Lol Verizon keeps trying to spin itself into Sprint. This is hilarious.

Verizon noted in the email that it sent its customers on Thursday that the price hike will allow it to continue improving its service

What they mean is, they need more money to pay off JDPower so they can be back in the number one spot for one thing or another.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

1 edit

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r81984

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The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Great news for all of us on DSLreports that are pro-internet and pro-consumer. No one on DSLreports would be against net neutrality.
The communications act legal definitions are now being followed again per our laws. The FCC is no longer ignoring the law.
Net neutrality is pro-consumer ensuring customers get the internet they are paying for.

Of course idiot Carr is crying and cant comprehend that the definition of Telecommunications, services, and Title II are written into law in the communications act and the FCC cannot change that without congress passing a new law.
Carr really needs to resign. His dissents are uneducated rambling of being against the libs like a qanon maga. He could care less about the law, constitution, citizens, and consumers. He does not hide his corruption.

Democrats have been on a roll with pro-consumers and workers.
FCC- Net neutrality
FTC-no more non compete clauses
DOT-automatic refunds for canceled flights, they must advertise full ticket prices including fees, all fees for addons must be disclosed up front and state if optional

Anona9e90
@172.58.120.x

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Anona9e90

Anon

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

NN has nothing to do with the consumer side. And the internet is the same as it was 25 years ago. Smh
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

4 recommendations

Thistool to r81984

Member

to r81984
Except not understanding what the subject is!! Oh and they decision is from 2015!! So a democratic presidency.

Arguing incompetence instead of understanding ignorance would be more beneficial when debating topics.

Title II still doesn't apply. Legally can't unless the Supreme Court reversed it's previous decision.

"Binding Supreme Court precedent confirms that the only body that can authorize public utility regulation of broadband is Congress,” the GOP letter to Rosenworcel said. “We therefore urge you to reverse course and maintain the [FCC’s] classification of broadband as an information service.”

»www.google.com/amp/s/var ··· 925/amp/
said by r81984:

Great news for all of us on DSLreports that are pro-internet and pro-consumer. No one on DSLreports would be against net neutrality.
The communications act legal definitions are now being followed again per our laws. The FCC is no longer ignoring the law.
Net neutrality is pro-consumer ensuring customers get the internet they are paying for.

Of course idiot Carr is crying and cant comprehend that the definition of Telecommunications, services, and Title II are written into law in the communications act and the FCC cannot change that without congress passing a new law.
Carr really needs to resign. His dissents are uneducated rambling of being against the libs like a qanon maga. He could care less about the law, constitution, citizens, and consumers. He does not hide his corruption.

Democrats have been on a roll with pro-consumers and workers.
FCC- Net neutrality
FTC-no more non compete clauses
DOT-automatic refunds for canceled flights, they must advertise full ticket prices including fees, all fees for addons must be disclosed up front and state if optional


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

4 edits

3 recommendations

r81984

Premium Member

Carr's Dissent: »docs.fcc.gov/public/atta ··· 82A3.pdf
Obama statement he is referencing: youtube.com/watch?v=uKcjQPVwfDk

There is not one internet user that would be against what Obama said about ensuring a free and open internet. Of course internet has become our replacement for all other telecommunications thus by its definition it falls under Title II as written in the act. Internet has become our "interstate or foreign communication solely through connection by radio, or by wire and radio".
The communications act does not specifically limit itself to specific forms of communications that existed, it broadly covers current and any form of future telecommunications and that is automatic. It was written that way in 1934. The Communications Act of 1934 was specifically written that internet is "telecommunications" and not an "information service via telecommunications". Only congress can change the definitions in the law.
Congress upheld these definition in 1996.
Telecommunications Act 1934 = »transition.fcc.gov/Repor ··· 4new.pdf
Telecommunications Act 1996 = »www.congress.gov/104/pla ··· l104.pdf
said by 1934 :
(43) TELECOMMUNICATIONS.--The term ''telecommunications'' means the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received.
......
(20) INFORMATION SERVICE.--The term ''information service'' means the offering of a capability for generating, acquiring, storing, transforming, processing, retrieving, utilizing, or making available information via telecommunications, and includes electronic publishing, but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service.

Telecommunications = internet access, transmission access between users so you can transfer any information that you want to
Information Services = Websites, servers that are available via telecommunications
There is no argument in these definitions as they are written into the law.

Carr does not get to pick and choose what part of the communications act he would like to enforce. Legally he has to enforce all of it. Also, in the future if some other form of telecommunications is created that replaced the internet, just as internet replaced the phonelines, then the same common carrier, title II laws will automatically apply to that new technology.
His final argument in his dissent is carriers already follow net neutrality so we dont need to have an explicit rule or law for it. That argument makes zero sense. He also rants that ISPs are not the problem but that private websites are the ones blocking internet access. lol, I guess he wants net neutrality applied to private websites which I dont think he even understands that makes no sense??? For being a lawyer he cant seem to understand the difference between telecommunications and an information service. That could be a new question on the bar exam to gauge basic reading comprehension (in the spirit of idiocracy) - just list the words and definitions then right below it then ask to match the same words with the same definitions.
He then throws republicans under the bus saying republicans passed a law that says the FCC cannot enforce privacy rules onto ISPs.
Carr also thinks the Supreme Court is going to nullify the entire Communications Act otherwise the FCC has not authority to change the definition of "telecommunications" and "information services" in the law passed by congress. Republicans dont even try to hide how confident they are that their corrupt supreme court will legislate from the bench for them.

But Carr really goes off on loopy maga tangents and conspiracy theories in his dissent. The guy needs to resign. He has no business being on the FCC. He still thinks congress never passed the telecommunication acts in 1934 and 1996. If Carr said any of this crazy stuff in court he would be disbarred.

Everyone that uses the internet is going to be pro-net neutrality. There are no negatives to have explicit rules that protect an unrestricted internet. It helps to ensure consumers are getting what they paid for and ensures our telecommunications are not being blocked by the carriers themselves. Title II already legally applies, the FCC cant change that, and net neutrality is a huge benefit to the US economy to help ensure the internet stays open and unrestricted.
Net Neutrality is better for ISPs for competition as then all ISPs have to follow the same rules and compete fairly. One ISP cannot lie to try to put another ISP out of business.
It also helps business have more confidence in investing in internet services knowing they cannot be unfairly blocked because a large ISP owns a internet service competitor.

For those with pointy ears that do not know the judicial history, in 2015 US Telecom v. FCC explains it and was also upheld by the supreme court who denied the appeal. The courts have all upheld that the FCC is correct with title ii and net neutrality.
»scholar.google.com/schol ··· 69379157
They acknowledge that the communication act definitions are broad on purpose to ensure they cover all future forms of telecommunications.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

3 recommendations

Thistool

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Lol your still not getting it. My car is a car. Weather it drives on a dirt road, asphalt, or Gravel.

The road is still a road whether my "car" drives on it or a commercial vehicle, city bus, Logging semi on and on. This does not change the application of my car.

Information services are exactly that. Whether it's your Netflix stream adult content or communication on this board.

Broadband is just a lane on a highway. The information systems that overlay on that is what you know as the Internet.

Again as the supreme Court decided in 2015. Only congress has the ability to classify broadband as a utility. Until such time that occurs the FCC has no authority over information services.

So again it cannot enforce any such actions under title II as it is not applicable to title II.

Wanting the situation the way your stating it. Is completely erroneous to actual facts of law. Feel free to actually read the Supreme Court ruling from 2015.

Maybe then you'll try again?
said by r81984:

Carr's Dissent: »docs.fcc.gov/public/atta ··· 82A3.pdf
Obama statement he is referencing: youtube.com/watch?v=uKcjQPVwfDk

There is not one internet user that would be against what Obama said about ensuring a free and open internet. Of course internet has become our replacement for all other telecommunications thus by its definition it falls under Title II as written in the act. Internet has become our "interstate or foreign communication solely through connection by radio, or by wire and radio".
The communications act does not specifically limit itself to specific forms of communications that existed, it broadly covers current and any form of future telecommunications and that is automatic. It was written that way in 1934. The Communications Act of 1934 was specifically written that internet is "telecommunications" and not an "information service via telecommunications". Only congress can change the definitions in the law.
Congress upheld these definition in 1996.
Telecommunications Act 1934 = »transition.fcc.gov/Repor ··· 4new.pdf
Telecommunications Act 1996 = »www.congress.gov/104/pla ··· l104.pdf

said by 1934 :
(43) TELECOMMUNICATIONS.--The term ''telecommunications'' means the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received.
......
(20) INFORMATION SERVICE.--The term ''information service'' means the offering of a capability for generating, acquiring, storing, transforming, processing, retrieving, utilizing, or making available information via telecommunications, and includes electronic publishing, but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service.

Carr does not get to pick and choose what part of the communications act he would like to enforce. Legally he has to enforce all of it. Also, in the future if some other form of telecommunications is created that replaced the internet, just as internet replaced the phonelines, then the same common carrier, title II laws will automatically apply to that new technology.
His final argument in his dissent is carriers already follow net neutrality so we dont need to have an explicit rule or law for it. That argument makes zero sense. He also rants that ISPs are not the problem but that private websites are the ones blocking internet access. lol, I guess he wants net neutrality applied to private websites which I dont think he even understands that makes no sense??? For being a lawyer he cant seem to understand the difference between telecommunications and an information service. That could be a new question on the bar exam to gauge basic reading comprehension (in the spirit of idiocracy) - just list the words and definitions then right below it then ask to match the same words with the same definitions.
He then throws republicans under the bus saying republicans passed a law that says the FCC cannot enforce privacy rules onto ISPs.
Carr also thinks the Supreme Court is going to nullify the entire Communications Act otherwise the FCC has not authority to change the definition of "telecommunications" and "information services" in the law passed by congress. Republicans dont even try to hide how confident they are that their corrupt supreme court will legislate from the bench for them.

But Carr really goes off on loopy maga tangents and conspiracy theories in his dissent. The guy needs to resign. He has no business being on the FCC. He still thinks congress never passed the telecommunication acts in 1934 and 1996. If Carr said any of this crazy stuff in court he would be disbarred.

Everyone that uses the internet is going to be pro-net neutrality. There are no negatives to have explicit rules that protect an unrestricted internet. It helps to ensure consumers are getting what they paid for and ensures our telecommunications are not being blocked by the carriers themselves. Title II already legally applies, the FCC cant change that, and net neutrality is a huge benefit to the US economy to help ensure the internet stays open and unrestricted.
Net Neutrality is better for ISPs for competition as then all ISPs have to follow the same rules and compete fairly. One ISP cannot lie to try to put another ISP out of business.
It also helps business have more confidence in investing in internet services knowing they cannot be unfairly blocked because a large ISP owns a internet service competitor.


tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
127.0.0.1

tc1uscg

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

said by Thistool:

Broadband is just a lane on a highway. The information systems that overlay on that is what you know as the Internet.

The name reference should have stayed, World Wide Web, aka, "the web". But my advice, don't feed the troll(s).

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

4 edits

r81984

Premium Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Why are you feeding the anti-internet and anti-law people that come onto a pro-internet website.

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that. Some people only say that because it is fringe rhetoric from a political party that ignores the law.

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use or connecting to other computers. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.
It is sad that this has to be explained.
They dont even know what the OSI model is (the internet is the bottom 4 layers anyways) nor can they understand that the law does not say anything about the OSI model. Even a beginning networking student in 6th grade would know this.
Telecommunications = the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received.
Internet = telecommunications
The definition of the internet has nothing to do with what data you send and receive over the internet.

Here are links about getting internet access from top ISP for people that do not think we are buying internet.
»www.xfinity.com/learn/in ··· -service "Internet plans starting at"
»www.att.com/internet/int ··· e-plans/ "Discover our best home internet plans"
»www.verizon.com/home/internet/ "We offer three primary internet products: Fios Home Internet, 5G Home Internet and LTE Home Internet."

It must hurt so much to try to argue that we are not buying internet and then try to say that the internet is the top layers of the OSI model. Has to be in extreme pain 24/7 to think like this. I feel sorry for someone in that much pain.

DocDrew
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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

said by r81984:

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that.

Except for the people who build the telecommunications networks, where internet access is just one of many services that communicate over those networks.
said by r81984:

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.

WOW! That's a mouthful of marbles, circular logic, jibberish trying to purposely avoid the differentiation of the telecommunications networks and the information services that communicate across them. You're using generic "internet" in refrence to the series of interconnected telecommunications networks, not the information services the average joe uses those networks for.

Anon2ae01
@73.124.255.x

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Anon2ae01

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove


.
said by DocDrew:

said by r81984:

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that.

Except for the people who build the telecommunications networks, where internet access is just one of many services that communicate over those networks.

So, when I text or make a phone call via signal messenger- isn't that telecommunication? Or for that matter any phone call from my fixed line via my VoIP providers.
One amazing thing in this entire far right propaganda barrage: Most, if not all developed countries do have net neutrality and consider internet a utility. And, with exception of Canada, their internet is better, cheaper and they have a lot of innovation. And usually not more, rather less government subsidies. But hey, that all is not true because it must not be true.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

Thistool

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

No it's not telecommunication. Because it's operational at only the higher levels of the OSI model.

Stay on anon if you whish. But you still need to understand the basics of what your trying to communicate before blaming this on a right agenda.

»www.nextiva.com/blog/wha ··· ing.html

Oh and you really need to brush up on your statistics Europe ain't the world leader in broadband penetration and speeds. UAE and Qatar are.

»worldpopulationreview.co ··· -country
said by Anon2ae01 :

.

said by DocDrew:

said by r81984:

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that.

Except for the people who build the telecommunications networks, where internet access is just one of many services that communicate over those networks.

So, when I text or make a phone call via signal messenger- isn't that telecommunication? Or for that matter any phone call from my fixed line via my VoIP providers.
One amazing thing in this entire far right propaganda barrage: Most, if not all developed countries do have net neutrality and consider internet a utility. And, with exception of Canada, their internet is better, cheaper and they have a lot of innovation. And usually not more, rather less government subsidies. But hey, that all is not true because it must not be true.


Anon2ae01
@73.124.255.x

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Anon2ae01

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Sir, unlike you, I actually lived in different countries and when I compare what's being offered on all those locations ( most of them not overly fancy) on all of them, without exception, there is broadband available at lower price and higher speeds than in the middle of the large metro area in the U.S. where I am now. In spite of double digit VAT which is charged because it is considered a utility.
I am accepting your opinion that I am an uneducated imbecile but it means that all the regulators in those countries must be uneducated imbeciles as well so I feel in a good company.
Not sure why you brought up Emirates and Qatar, they swim in oil and money so they could pave their streets in gold.
Yes, it's a right wing agenda, I only see it coming from that corner.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

1 recommendation

Thistool

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Welp I'm Dominican immigrant and spent just under 22 years in the U.S. Navy. So I as well have a fair amount of travel in my almost 60 years of life in this world.

Pretty sure Thailand isn't swimming in oil money. Still ranking Higher then most of Europe?

Care to try again?
said by Anon2ae01 :

Sir, unlike you, I actually lived in different countries and when I compare what's being offered on all those locations ( most of them not overly fancy) on all of them, without exception, there is broadband available at lower price and higher speeds than in the middle of the large metro area in the U.S. where I am now. In spite of double digit VAT which is charged because it is considered a utility.
I am accepting your opinion that I am an uneducated imbecile but it means that all the regulators in those countries must be uneducated imbeciles as well so I feel in a good company.
Not sure why you brought up Emirates and Qatar, they swim in oil and money so they could pave their streets in gold.
Yes, it's a right wing agenda, I only see it coming from that corner.


Anon06314
@172.58.120.x

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Anon06314 to Anon2ae01

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to Anon2ae01
It’s information. Not communication. And you’re comparing the US to Canada where they have UBB and far less fiber than the US? Lol

bandit8623
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to Anon2ae01
said by Anon2ae01 :

.

said by DocDrew:

said by r81984:

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that.

Except for the people who build the telecommunications networks, where internet access is just one of many services that communicate over those networks.

So, when I text or make a phone call via signal messenger- isn't that telecommunication? Or for that matter any phone call from my fixed line via my VoIP providers.
One amazing thing in this entire far right propaganda barrage: Most, if not all developed countries do have net neutrality and consider internet a utility. And, with exception of Canada, their internet is better, cheaper and they have a lot of innovation. And usually not more, rather less government subsidies. But hey, that all is not true because it must not be true.

Canada actually pays more for cellular and regular Internet. I have a few Canadian friends Toronto and Edmonton. Higher prices across the board
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

1 recommendation

Thistool to r81984

Member

to r81984
No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!
said by r81984:

Why are you feeding the anti-internet and anti-law people that come onto a pro-internet website.

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that. Some people only say that because it is fringe rhetoric from a political party that ignores the law.

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use or connecting to other computers. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.
It is sad that this has to be explained.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

said by Thistool:

No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!

said by r81984:

Why are you feeding the anti-internet and anti-law people that come onto a pro-internet website.

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that. Some people only say that because it is fringe rhetoric from a political party that ignores the law.

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use or connecting to other computers. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.
It is sad that this has to be explained.

This has to be quoted to preserve it.
The internet is the bottom 4 layers of the OSI model layers 1-4 and any 6th grade networking student would know this. Just wow. I can dumb it down for you - the internet literally starts at your modem with your ISP or in some cases your NIC. The internet has nothing to do with the type or kind of data you send or receive across it including whatever information services you use. Literally nothing.
Why are you just posting lies and saying nonsense? I really dont know what to say when you keep posting the opposite of facts. Why do you do this? Im going to put you back on ignore as I only want to talk to people who actually are educated on the internet and networking.
All ISPs will clearly sell you internet as stated on your plan.

Here are links about getting internet access from top ISP for people that do not think we are buying internet.
»www.xfinity.com/learn/in ··· -service "Internet plans starting at"
»www.att.com/internet/int ··· e-plans/ "Discover our best home internet plans"
»www.verizon.com/home/internet/ "We offer three primary internet products: Fios Home Internet, 5G Home Internet and LTE Home Internet."
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

1 edit

Thistool

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Oh I do love when you don't know what your speaking to.

»www.kentik.com/kentipedi ··· peering/

»www.simplilearn.com/tuto ··· e%20host.

See a 6th grade network student would understand what you just described is a intranet or LAN. Lol 😂!!!!

Wanna try again?
said by r81984:

said by Thistool:

No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!

said by r81984:

Why are you feeding the anti-internet and anti-law people that come onto a pro-internet website.

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that. Some people only say that because it is fringe rhetoric from a political party that ignores the law.

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use or connecting to other computers. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.
It is sad that this has to be explained.

This has to be quoted to preserve it.
The internet is the bottom 4 layers of the OSI model layers 1-4 and any 6th grade networking student would know this. Just wow. I can dumb it down for you - the internet literally starts at your modem with your ISP or in some cases your NIC. The internet has nothing to do with the type or kind of data you send or receive across it including whatever information services you use. Literally nothing.
Why are you just posting lies and saying nonsense? I really dont know what to say when you keep posting the opposite of facts. Why do you do this? Im going to put you back on ignore as I only want to talk to people who actually are educated on the internet and networking.
All ISPs will clearly sell you internet as stated on your plan.

Here are links about getting internet access from top ISP for people that do not think we are buying internet.
»www.xfinity.com/learn/in ··· -service "Internet plans starting at"
»www.att.com/internet/int ··· e-plans/ "Discover our best home internet plans"
»www.verizon.com/home/internet/ "We offer three primary internet products: Fios Home Internet, 5G Home Internet and LTE Home Internet."


DocDrew
How can I help?
Premium Member
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
Ubee E31U2V1
Technicolor TC4400
Linksys EA6900

1 edit

4 recommendations

DocDrew to r81984

Premium Member

to r81984
said by r81984:

The internet is the bottom 4 layers of the OSI model layers 1-4 and any 6th grade networking student would know this. Just wow. I can dumb it down for you - the internet literally starts at your modem with your ISP or in some cases your NIC. The internet has nothing to do with the type or kind of data you send or receive across it including whatever information services you use. Literally nothing.

Homework for any 6th grade networking student then....

If I have a private network connection between two sites that isn't accessible from another network, is that the internet? It uses all 7 layers of the OSI model...

If I make a phone call on a plain old telephone system connection, then plug in a DSL modem connected to the same line, why isn't the phone call considered internet service?

My cable box connects to the same HFC network as my cable modem. They communicate with the same TFTP and DHCP servers to get on the network and issued IP addresses. They both communicate with other servers. The cable box can't access the internet, but the modem allows access to the internet. Why is it different?

Which OSI layers are the Telecommunications and which are the Information Service as defined in the Telecommunications Acts?
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

-1 recommendation

Thistool to r81984

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to r81984
Of course you would also need a fundamental understanding of what intralata verses interlata means as well.

Please keep trying!!!
said by r81984:

said by Thistool:

No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!

said by r81984:

Why are you feeding the anti-internet and anti-law people that come onto a pro-internet website.

It is insane to argue that the internet is not telecommunications. No one truly believes that. Some people only say that because it is fringe rhetoric from a political party that ignores the law.

For the trolls, the internet will still 100% exist without the information services. People are free to use it with any information service that they want to use or connecting to other computers. They can make something new that will work over the internet at any time to make the internet useful for them.
It is sad that this has to be explained.

This has to be quoted to preserve it.
The internet is the bottom 4 layers of the OSI model layers 1-4 and any 6th grade networking student would know this. Just wow. I can dumb it down for you - the internet literally starts at your modem with your ISP or in some cases your NIC. The internet has nothing to do with the type or kind of data you send or receive across it including whatever information services you use. Literally nothing.
Why are you just posting lies and saying nonsense? I really dont know what to say when you keep posting the opposite of facts. Why do you do this? Im going to put you back on ignore as I only want to talk to people who actually are educated on the internet and networking.
All ISPs will clearly sell you internet as stated on your plan.

Here are links about getting internet access from top ISP for people that do not think we are buying internet.
»www.xfinity.com/learn/in ··· -service "Internet plans starting at"
»www.att.com/internet/int ··· e-plans/ "Discover our best home internet plans"
»www.verizon.com/home/internet/ "We offer three primary internet products: Fios Home Internet, 5G Home Internet and LTE Home Internet."


ILpt4U
Premium Member
join:2006-11-12
Saint Louis, MO
ARRIS TM822
Asus RT-N66

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ILpt4U to Thistool

Premium Member

to Thistool
said by Thistool:

No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!

So would not dial tone carried on copper wires from the Telephone Company Exchange Central Office to your residence or business not be the Public Switched Telephone Network?

The PSTN are the switches and routing that enable the completion of the call to the number you dial, whether next door or across the country or even the world

The physical plant are individual providers’ built out property that enable access to that network. But neither a POTS phone handset in your house, nor the copper in the field (or any local carrier systems like SLC96, UMC1000, LightSpan2000, etc) are really the PSTN.

So does that mean POTS to your house or business from ATT, VZ, Lumen, FTR, Windstream, Consolidated, TDS, or other smaller phone companies is not part of the PSTN, since it is beyond the last switching element (the switch in the CO)?
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

-1 recommendation

Thistool

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Except your question is lacking the actual exchange. For instance how the intra is turned to to the interlata to actually complete that exchange.

Thus riding a long distance trunk. The same way intra exchange used to need to be physically switched a transmission span between two Central office.

Another example of this is foreign exchange numbers riding interoffice spans. Back to back d4 banks up muxing into a interoffice T1 to reach that native switch. The foreign exchange number is not part of that local CO and would need to reenter the exchange to actually be switched to a native number. Thus actually crossing two normally isolated network and actually being switched.
said by ILpt4U:

said by Thistool:

No one is anti-internet. As it's been explained multiple times. The suggested connotation of what the Internet is as you suggested is WRONG!!!!

In order to have a real discussion with facts you first have to understand the subject matter your speaking to. Since you can't even articulate what the 7 layers of the OSI model are your statements are grossly inaccurate.

Your service provider is not the Internet the signal from your home to the world is not the Internet. That's broadband. The Internet is a meet me room of fiber optic patch panels going from one provider to another. That's it.

The only troll on the subject is the one spouting information they don't know anything about.

Conversation have to happen with facts otherwise there just monologue. Which is what has been explained at length to you.

A fool doesn't know when they don't know something, a Wiseman knows to ask when they don't know something.

You do understand where word Internet came from right interconnected networks!!!!

So would not dial tone carried on copper wires from the Telephone Company Exchange Central Office to your residence or business not be the Public Switched Telephone Network?

The PSTN are the switches and routing that enable the completion of the call to the number you dial, whether next door or across the country or even the world

The physical plant are individual providers’ built out property that enable access to that network. But neither a POTS phone handset in your house, nor the copper in the field (or any local carrier systems like SLC96, UMC1000, LightSpan2000, etc) are really the PSTN.

So does that mean POTS to your house or business from ATT, VZ, Lumen, FTR, Windstream, Consolidated, TDS, or other smaller phone companies is not part of the PSTN, since it is beyond the last switching element (the switch in the CO)?


DocDrew
How can I help?
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SoCal
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DocDrew to r81984

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to r81984
said by r81984 :

Telecommunications Act 1934 = »transition.fcc.gov/Repor ··· 4new.pdf
Telecommunications Act 1996 = »www.congress.gov/104/pla ··· l104.pdf

said by 1934 :
(43) TELECOMMUNICATIONS.--The term ''telecommunications'' means the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received.
......
(20) INFORMATION SERVICE.--The term ''information service'' means the offering of a capability for generating, acquiring, storing, transforming, processing, retrieving, utilizing, or making available information via telecommunications, and includes electronic publishing, but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service.

Telecommunications = internet access, transmission access between users so you can transfer any information that you want to
Information Services = Websites, servers that are available via telecommunications

If there was no question about what the definitions in the Telecommunications Act meant, you wouldn't have to clarify them more by adding which definition applies to websites and servers. That would be self-evident. Courts wouldn't spend countless hours deciding how they apply either.

BTW, if websites and servers (information services according to you) are all shut down, do you still have an internet? What would broadband at your home be used for without those websites and servers?

tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
127.0.0.1

tc1uscg

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

said by DocDrew:

BTW, if websites and servers (information services according to you) are all shut down, do you still have an internet? What would broadband at your home be used for without those websites and servers?

Sounds like the making of a song... "The day, the hyperlinks died... So bye bye information highway, unplugged my computer but Windows wouldn't go away. Those good old IT boys were sitting around singing, this will be the day that we die, this will be the day that we die".. ok, enough!

But this will have to do..

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· yM4zWjx8
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

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to DocDrew
said by DocDrew:

if websites and servers ... are all shut down...

You wouldn't have an internet any more. The internet is more than just the roads ("tubes") that get information from place to place. Today, everything is information. My telephone calls are all data - when in range of wifi, even my cellphone is IP. My TV is all data, streaming from a dozen services. (even major cable operators are moving to a data only service. Charter now prefers to install Xumo boxes rather than traditional QAM STBs.)

I think we need to remove "tele" from the word. It hasn't been about "telephone" for decades.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

Thistool

Member

Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Well no. QAM is based on ptsn. So forgetting our roots will mean we won't know how to advance our future.

»en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ ··· _network
said by cramer:

said by DocDrew:

if websites and servers ... are all shut down...

You wouldn't have an internet any more. The internet is more than just the roads ("tubes") that get information from place to place. Today, everything is information. My telephone calls are all data - when in range of wifi, even my cellphone is IP. My TV is all data, streaming from a dozen services. (even major cable operators are moving to a data only service. Charter now prefers to install Xumo boxes rather than traditional QAM STBs.)

I think we need to remove "tele" from the word. It hasn't been about "telephone" for decades.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
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join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984 to cramer

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to cramer
The "tele" part of telecommunications has nothing to do with the word telephone. It means distant. Both words use that prefix to mean distant.

But...the internet would 100% still work exactly the same with no websites or servers. The internet is not dependent on those things at all.
The internet still exists as long as computers are connected even if those computers are not sharing any data at that time.
The internet has nothing to do with the type of data you send or receive. It is the network that you can use to send or receive data in any form that you want to.

But, dont enable the trolls. They are now arguing against all the basic meaning of words like lan, wan, internet, inter, intra, networking and have no idea what the OSI model is. I have never seen people just go all in making themselves look foolish like this. They need to take a 6th grade networking class before they comment again.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

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Thistool

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Already forgotten the top three layers of the OSI model lol.

Might want to try reading again.

»www.simplilearn.com/tuto ··· e%20host.

That didn't take long.

How exactly would you post on this website if servers and peering didn't exist?? Be specific!!!
said by r81984:

The "tele" part of telecommunications has nothing to do with the word telephone. It means distant. Both words use that prefix to mean distant.

But...the internet would 100% still work exactly the same with no websites or servers. The internet is not dependent on those things at all.
The internet still exists as long as computers are connected even if those computers are not sharing any data at that time.
The internet has nothing to do with the type of data you send or receive. It is the network that you can use to send or receive data in any form that you want to.

But, dont enable the trolls. They are now arguing against all the basic meaning of words like lan, wan, internet, inter, intra, networking and have no idea what the OSI model is. I have never seen people just go all in making themselves look foolish like this. They need to take a 6th grade networking class before they comment again.


tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
127.0.0.1

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tc1uscg

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

Whats obvious is how people forget history. . "January 1, 1983 is considered the official birthday of the Internet. Prior to this, the various computer networks did not have a standard way to communicate with each other. A new communications protocol was established called Transfer Control Protocol/Internetwork Protocol (TCP/IP)" Why the troll(s) tend to ignore the basics is concerning.
Thistool
join:2013-12-05
Auburn, WA

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Quote me specifically were im arguing the definition of lan wan inter intra and Internet??

Please be specific!!! 😂
said by r81984:

The "tele" part of telecommunications has nothing to do with the word telephone. It means distant. Both words use that prefix to mean distant.

But...the internet would 100% still work exactly the same with no websites or servers. The internet is not dependent on those things at all.
The internet still exists as long as computers are connected even if those computers are not sharing any data at that time.
The internet has nothing to do with the type of data you send or receive. It is the network that you can use to send or receive data in any form that you want to.

But, dont enable the trolls. They are now arguing against all the basic meaning of words like lan, wan, internet, inter, intra, networking and have no idea what the OSI model is. I have never seen people just go all in making themselves look foolish like this. They need to take a 6th grade networking class before they comment again.

cramer
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Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer to r81984

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to r81984
"The Internet" is more than just the physical communications infrastructure. We had such infrastructure before there was an internet. (albeit much more primitive.) Everything is ethernet and IP these days, so I can see how the line has blurred into the invisible.

And no, the network cannot transport data "in any form"; it carries IP (v4, or if available, v6), 'tho you can wrap almost anything imaginable in IP. Legacy TDM services are converted to IP. POTS has VoIP. T1(etc) has CES. I've even set up XOT for X.25. Many otherwise ethernet handoffs won't actually allow anything other than IP.

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Anon06314
@172.58.120.x

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The internet is not a communications service. It’s information.

Evergreener
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO

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Invoke, revoke, invoke, rinse and repeat. Through it all there has been zero impact to my broadband connection's speed, latency or price through all of it. Furthermore, nothing has changed with regards to my wired broadband options... CenturyLink here is still limping along on antiquated copper and 20yo DSL-tech... if you're close enough to the CO.

I'm sure -someone- benefits from 'Net Neutrality', but speaking as a broadband consumer since the mid 90's, it's sureAF not the typical consumer.
SurfaceUnits
join:2007-09-29
Hot Springs National Park, AR

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SurfaceUnits

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Re: The FCC Votes 3-2 To Reinstate The US' Net Neutrality Rules, Expanding Gove

he's not interested in consumer usability as he hasn't mentioned it, it's all about big government interference in free enterprise with him
SurfaceUnits

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where in the US Constitution or federal law are any of those coded. no where. outlaw bureaucracies with outlaw curators creating their own fascist 1984

bandit8623
join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
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bandit8623 to r81984

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said by r81984:

Great news for all of us on DSLreports that are pro-internet and pro-consumer. No one on DSLreports would be against net neutrality.
The communications act legal definitions are now being followed again per our laws. The FCC is no longer ignoring the law.
Net neutrality is pro-consumer ensuring customers get the internet they are paying for.

Of course idiot Carr is crying and cant comprehend that the definition of Telecommunications, services, and Title II are written into law in the communications act and the FCC cannot change that without congress passing a new law.
Carr really needs to resign. His dissents are uneducated rambling of being against the libs like a qanon maga. He could care less about the law, constitution, citizens, and consumers. He does not hide his corruption.

Democrats have been on a roll with pro-consumers and workers.
FCC- Net neutrality
FTC-no more non compete clauses
DOT-automatic refunds for canceled flights, they must advertise full ticket prices including fees, all fees for addons must be disclosed up front and state if optional

Ripping on the right for allowing T-Mobile to buy sprint.. then when they are in control they allow Mint to be bought... Lol so consumer friendly....

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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
127.0.0.1

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tc1uscg

Member

T-Mobile reports more growth

Well, it's not from the lack of Nickle diming it's customers. Case in point. Mother in law went overseas. Added the 30 days pass so she could make phone calls as could anyone in her party (total of 4 people), incase they needed to make an urgent phone call, shouldn't be a problem. Have done this same thing two times before. Knowing she would be there a minimum of 10 days, I opted for the 30 day deal incase she got delayed, which she did by 2 days. So, she got back 12 days after departing. So, I go online to cancel the plan, like I have a couple times before and I get a retro credit for days not used. NOPE, not this time. This time, you CAN'T OPT OUT. Just like streaming services, you pay for a month, you are stuck for that month even if you cancel early. Ok.. but while I was in the queue, for some reason, it thought I wanted to pay my bill (which is due in like 15 days), so it let me know, they could take payment over the phone, for a $10 charge. WTF? They want to charge a customer ten bucks to pay their bill with an agent? More then paying in the store but still.

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tc1uscg

tc1uscg

Member

FCC and Net Neutrality

The spin doctors are only getting better at their jobs. However, the link below gives IMO a better idea of why and who voted the way they did.

I'm not going to regurgitate whats in the headline below but it's clear at least Carr doesn't have his head up his bum, like some of the others as it's cleer this will do NOTHING overall for anyone except the likes of Google, FB, Twitter, etc. The customer isn't going to notice anything different then they did a month or week ago. And it kinda pisses on the Comms act of 1996 in various anti-consumer forms. Censorship (being one) is not pro consumer no matter how the trolls might try to play it. Common sense regulation is enough. But lets ISP's will figure out a way to pays all back thanks to the FCC's overreach meddling.

»www.telecompetitor.com/a ··· n-board/


Anon963e2
@172.58.120.x

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Anon963e2

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Re: FCC and Net Neutrality

It’s always been that way. Sad people can’t read and comprehend the truth.

Reticent
join:2008-08-11
USA_PDX

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Reticent

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ByteDance Would Rather Shutter TikTok US

Trade secret?

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