Timeline for Can I, until now a non-Muslim, visit Mecca by declaring that Allah is one in front of 2 people?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
15 events
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| Apr 20, 2023 at 5:50 | history | edited | MastaBaba | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Added an anecdote.
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| Mar 31, 2023 at 10:23 | comment | added | MastaBaba | @Johnnyjanko, that is also my understanding. | |
| Mar 31, 2023 at 8:29 | comment | added | Johnnyjanko | While a Hajj visa is indeed needed for a pilgrimage to Mecca, I believe a standard tourist visa is sufficient for muslim tourists in order to visit Mecca outside of the major pilgrimage season. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:16 | comment | added | Hashim Aziz | @Schmuddi I was polite. If you want people to be nice, then you shouldn't waste their time with pedantic semantics that you'd realise aren't valid if you simply spent a fraction of that time on thinking through my first comment. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:13 | history | edited | MastaBaba | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Added some info for converts to Islam.
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| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:12 | comment | added | Schmuddi | @HashimAziz: You're a very nice person. Have a good day. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:10 | comment | added | Hashim Aziz | @Schmuddi Then you're reading it wrong, and I'm perplexed as to why you're having trouble with this - it's very basic logic. Muslims who are born Muslim cannot become Muslim; ergo, it can only be referring to convert Muslims. Once again, this is in keeping with the context of the question, and is the most logical explanation - pretending otherwise is mental gymnastics. No, white born Muslims generally don't have documentation, but wrt to Bosnians, it's well-known that they are white, especially by Saudi customs who likely see Bosnian passports everyday. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:08 | comment | added | MastaBaba | The fact that one does not need a mosque to be muslim, converted or not, means that a conversion does not automatically come with a certificate. However, as @HashimAziz points out, a Hajj visa requires a notarised certificate for converts. I will include this in my answer. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 16:05 | comment | added | Schmuddi | @HashimAziz: "it's very clearly referring to converts" – that's not how I'm reading this, but ultimately only the author of this answer can clarify that. Regardless of that: I take it from your explanation that e.g. Bosnian Muslims (who are white by the way) don't have such documentation either (despite not being converts), right? | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 15:54 | comment | added | Hashim Aziz | @Schmuddi If it was referring to converts it wouldn't say "become Muslim", because only converts "become Muslim" - it's very clearly referring to converts, as in the context of the question. Non-white Muslims generally don't need documentation because the Saudis don't ask for it, because the assumption (flawed albeit generally true) is that they were born Muslim. The documentation is only likely to be asked of white converts. | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 15:45 | comment | added | Schmuddi | @HashimAziz: You're talking about converts, but I think the first sentence of this answer refers to people born to a Muslim family. Do they also receive such documentation? | |
| Jan 6, 2023 at 14:57 | comment | added | Hashim Aziz | If I could downvote this I would, because it manages to be wrong on the first, most basic count - converts to Islam absolutely do get documentation proving this and this is well-known in the Muslim community, the documentation is printed by the mosque/organisation that the conversion is taken with and exists almost entirely for the very purpose of proving you're a Muslim to SA in order to perform the Hajj. There's even a question on this very site about it. | |
| Jan 5, 2023 at 16:06 | comment | added | MastaBaba | Mecca is not a destination for tourists, less so for non-muslim tourists. A lot of the discussions connected to this question deal with the traveler in question not being muslim, but visiting a 'Muslims only' area, specifically Mecca. If you break the law in any country, you might face the consequences. If you break the law in Mecca in a way that is considered un-islamic, particularly when you're not muslim, yeah, I can imagine consequences to be more severe. The solution is not to figure out how to appear muslim when you're not, but to respect the rules and to not visit when you're not. | |
| Jan 5, 2023 at 12:59 | comment | added | Dean MacGregor | Correct me if I'm wrong but SA has religious police. If you're a Western tourist that is (by their view) not Muslim, they probably leave you alone for most things. If you go to a Muslim only area, you've now subjected yourself to the strict scrutiny of the religious police. It's possible that you could commit a severe transgression, without even knowing it, that could face a very severe penalty. | |
| Jan 3, 2023 at 13:20 | history | answered | MastaBaba | CC BY-SA 4.0 |