Timeline for How would Japanese people react to someone refusing to say “itadakimasu” for religious reasons?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
25 events
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| Sep 5, 2019 at 13:57 | comment | added | fkraiem | I'd like to thank everyone in this comment thread for the good laughs! | |
| Jun 18, 2019 at 1:08 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан You can absolutely be politely disrespectful in Japan. Even calling someone with the "-sama" honorific, if done in a certain way, can be almost aggressively rude. So is it heartless? Maybe, depending on what your culture considers heartless. Welcome to cultural barriers. :P | |
| Jun 18, 2019 at 0:48 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @forest So you can be politely disrespectful in Japan. Ugh, alright, I see. “No matter how sincere it is, it doesn’t count, unless it follows the grand specific instructions.”⸻is what you’re telling me the Japanese society is, did I get it right? But, isn’t it kind of, heartless, I don’t know. Let me have some space to make sense of it myself. Just a while. Sorry, I’m a bit shocked. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 23:41 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан There are a few things you need to know about Japanese culture. The Japanese are very polite and forgiving... if you're a foreigner who isn't staying for very long and can be forgiven for not knowing their customs. As soon as you know the customs or begin to stay in the country longer than a tourist, their own high standards will apply equally to you as well. So it's not a big deal if you forget what you're supposed to do, but if you know what you are supposed to do and refuse, no matter how politely, you are, in that culture, being extremely disrespectful. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 23:36 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан What you call "common sense" differs based on culture. You are proclaiming the culture you are familiar with as the only sensible one, with anything else not just being foreign, but wrong. I guess by your standards, Japanese natives are "paranoiac pedants in weird sanctimonious mindsets". And Japanese think of you as arrogant, rude, and incapable of respecting other cultures. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 15:50 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @peter Hopefully you’ll see who’s talking nonsense. Being oversensitive only makes you a paranoiac pedant in a weird sanctimonious mindset. You justify it saying it’s a cultural thing, when it has nothing to do with a culture, but common sense. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 12:13 | comment | added | peter | @КонстантинВан it's pretty obvious you are debating the point just to prove yourself right and everyone else wrong. As I have far, far better things to do with my time I'm going to dump you here. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 2:15 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @peter Second, the example situation you gave is where you only have two extreme options contradict each other: either this or that. Insisting on the one socially disfavored could be a disrespect. But that’s when you don't have alternatives. Do you seriously think politely avoiding “いただきます” in favor of “Thanks for the delicious food” is not any different than your example? Do not make a fallacy. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 2:15 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @peter First, again, “No, I will NOT say it!” is not the only way to convey personal avoidance of a specific expression. You find it rude because it is said a disrespectful way. Know the difference and STOP exaggerating it in your mind. I understand you’re proud of your culture, but you’re reading too much into his statement. The OP never once said he would abruptly deny the use of it. | |
| Jun 17, 2019 at 1:32 | comment | added | peter | @КонстантинВан New visitors who don't know the local customs, no. Once you know about the local versions and refuse to use them, yes. Mixing the two is generally fine as long as it doesn't conflict. So a German could use both かんぱい and Prost! and no one will care. "I will NOT say kanpai!!" and you've gone to your last drinking party. Lets try this version: "In Japan, we do not wear shoes indoors" => "In my country, we always wear shoes indoors, so I refuse to take my shoes off". Not really any different than the original question. When in Rome..... | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 20:34 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @peter Admitting I myself am not a Japanese, please, let me ask one thing to better understand your culture. Do the Japanese in the Japanese culture, including you and your wife (or girlfriend), really think grateful words lose their very meaning in expressing gratitude when they don’t go by the book, that is to be rude, even to grieve over? | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 13:37 | comment | added | peter | @КонстантинВан you write the language, but you either don't live in Japan or you are one of those 外人 that try to exist in a (presumably Russian) bubble. I get grief from Wifey-san for this and other very minor digressions from the expected, and I hear what she and others say about assorted foreigners after they leave. The exact words are a big deal, although butchering the pronunciation is accepted. For a while. | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 6:06 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан Well, I'm not from a culture where that would be rude. | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 5:38 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @forest I’m sorry but I think I’m not convinced yet. Would you get offended if I insist on “Bonjour” for a greeting, saying “Sorry, I personally don't like to greet people with ‘hello’ because it has the word ’hell’ in it.”? That’s how all this いただきます thing sounds to me. The idea of avoiding “hello” sounds silly, but has nothing to offend someone. It might not be a customary way to greet; does that mean I’m against the entire culture, showing disrespect, and being rude? Likewise: he could refuse one and say another instead. It's not a big deal, at least for this one. Don’t you think so? | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 4:30 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан It's not about not saying it, but about refusing to say it. If you don't say anything, no one is going to bat an eye. They'll assume you, as a foreigner, don't understand their customs. If they know that you are aware and you explicitly tell them that you refuse, that is when you are disrespecting their culture. We can argue about whether or not it should be something the Japanese would take offense to, but you can't really argue that they won't take offense to a concrete refusal to follow even the most basic customs. | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 4:27 | comment | added | Константин Ван | @forest Cultural differences exist, that’s right, I understand. But for this one; is this really a cultural matter? I doubt it. I say this because I know what exactly “いただきます” mean, as much as natives do. Is it that a big deal to say the exact words? He never once said he would not thank others for providing meals. We clearly have alternative ways to appreciate the meal, and I believe that’s what matters in the social graces. In which culture do you become a complete asshole for not saying the exact phrase to show respect to others, may I ask? | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 2:45 | comment | added | forest | @КонстантинВан Like those of all nations, Japanese culture is unique. What you find rude, they may find completely normal. Likewise what you don't think twice about could be a major faux pas there. Not conforming to their culture when you are in their land is rude to them. Even if you refuse to conform and polite in explaining yourself, you can still be rude. | |
| Jun 16, 2019 at 1:44 | comment | added | Константин Ван | Just plain absurd. Besides whether “Itadakimasu” has such a connotation or not, how come avoiding some expressions for a personal reason but being polite in a different manner be “rude-ass?” It should be understandable. Did the OP say “No, cut the crap, I won’t.” or what? He said “as politely as possible.” If saying “Thanks” instead of “Itadakimasu” makes me any rude-ass and won’t win me any friends, I would rather be happy not to have such priggish and pedantic friends. Know what’s understandable and what’s rude. | |
| Jun 14, 2019 at 16:05 | comment | added | wizzwizz4 | @Kimball Saying "I understand that you'll probably expect me to say 'please' and 'thank you', but I refuse" wouldn't really fall under "polite in your own way", however displaying gratitude and politeness even without such words would. There's no need to call this out, and doing so would almost certainly be less polite than simply not doing them. | |
| Jun 14, 2019 at 8:11 | comment | added | Kimball | I think the last paragraph is rather harsh. In my experience, Japanese expectations are often different for foreigners than for Japanese. If you're polite in your own way there shouldn't be an issue. | |
| Jun 13, 2019 at 21:27 | vote | accept | nick012000 | ||
| Jun 13, 2019 at 17:30 | comment | added | Frank Hopkins | @Clockwork that's probably the reason for the "after you leave" part^^ | |
| Jun 13, 2019 at 17:21 | comment | added | Clockwork | Don't they usually keep their feelings to themselves though? As in, even if something is displeasing them, they still put respect on top of everything. | |
| Jun 13, 2019 at 9:00 | review | First posts | |||
| Jun 13, 2019 at 9:31 | |||||
| Jun 13, 2019 at 8:55 | history | answered | peter | CC BY-SA 4.0 |