Timeline for In the Silmarillion, what was Morgoth's "dark design" against Luthien?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
6 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 3, 2017 at 20:55 | comment | added | Yorik | "ascribing sexual motives [...] (such as to an immortal spirit being)." Luthien's mother was also an immortal spirit being. | |
| Feb 3, 2017 at 16:47 | comment | added | Integration | @Taylor17387 The reference to Celegorm and Curufin is a good one. Maybe "dark design" literally means that: re-designing Luthien. We know that Morgoth and Sauron have a penchant for corrupting things and turning them into base creatures. Perhaps Morgoth literally wanted to corrupt Luthien into something new and evil. | |
| Feb 3, 2017 at 16:38 | comment | added | Integration | As to the question, "dark design" definitely seems like a euphemism for rape (especially considering the context in which it was written) - but I think you will be very hard pressed in finding Tolkein admitting that anywhere. | |
| Feb 3, 2017 at 16:36 | comment | added | Integration | I always thought Tolkein was pretty progressive when it came to his depiction of women. Galadriel is arguably the most powerful entity in Middle Earth and she was basically a former rebel leader. Eowyn behaves in a righteous manner by concealing her gender and riding into battle. Considering that Tolkein was actually born and raised in the Victorian Era (and immediately after it), his treatment of women seems pretty forward thinking. | |
| Feb 15, 2013 at 22:37 | comment | added | Taylor17387 | But still, he was more explicit when Celegorm and Curufin wanted to rape her, that's why I don't understand why that passage was so obscure: "...they purposed to let the King perish, and to keep Lúthien, and force Thingol to give her hand to Celegorm." (Silmarillion) "...why Curufin looked with hot desire on Luthien" "...thereafter never near might win to Luthien, nor touch that maid" (Lay of Leithian) Or here: "and he ravished Arie, desiring both to abase her and to take into himself her powers." (Morgoth's Ring) | |
| Feb 15, 2013 at 21:26 | history | answered | Michael Borgwardt | CC BY-SA 3.0 |