Timeline for Did the Ring Bearers and Gimli die in Valinor?
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5 events
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| Apr 12, 2023 at 5:07 | comment | added | Tim Pederick | I think you’ve made an error, in which I followed you, confusing ibid’s quotation with Letter 325. The letter says nothing of the sort. (It also makes it plain that, at least in this writing, Aman did include Eressëa.) I have the text Ibid quotes as Text 2 in “Elvish Reincarnation”, The Nature of Middle-earth: it only says Frodo went to Eressëa—which is not the same thing as saying he only went to Eressëa, e.g. that he was forbidden the “visits” you infer for the Elves. And to be super-duper-picky, surely Mandos is in Valinor… ;-) | |
| Apr 10, 2023 at 22:12 | comment | added | Spencer | @TimPederick No, Letter 325 makes ir clear he only went to Eressëa (which used to be part of Middle-earth) before going to the Halls of Mandos (i.e. after dying). | |
| Apr 10, 2023 at 8:42 | comment | added | Tim Pederick | Now, AFAIK we are never told whether Frodo et al went to Valinor or not. There’s no clear statement they did, but that doesn’t prove they didn’t. Frodo certainly went to Eressëa. Letter 325 implies he went to Aman; does Eressëa count? The admonition from Akallabêth surely covers all of the Undying Lands, and since we know Frodo entered those, it proves nothing about his case. Galadriel foreshadows Frodo’s voyage in her lament, which includes the words nai hiruvalyë Valimar, “maybe thou shalt find Valimar”—the city of the Valar, which is in Valinor. | |
| Apr 10, 2023 at 8:40 | comment | added | Tim Pederick | Let me be super-picky on your super-pickiness. ;-) First, definitions. Aman is the landmass, encompassing everything west of the Pelóri. It may possibly exclude the coastlands east of them; Araman means “outside Aman”, but perhaps that shouldn’t be taken literally. A more pertinent question is whether Aman includes Eressëa, off the coast. Valinor is the land of the Valar, which lies within Aman. It is perhaps best understood as a state (despite the lack of politics per se). Eldamar is another state. And the Undying Lands includes Valinor, Eldamar, and Eressëa, at a minimum. | |
| Oct 22, 2022 at 23:28 | history | answered | Spencer | CC BY-SA 4.0 |