Timeline for How come there are no middle-aged senior officers on the Enterprise D other than Picard?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
27 events
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| Jan 7, 2020 at 0:52 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Jul 30, 2018 at 19:15 | comment | added | Schwern | @Hend Thank you for your work, but that was too much extra content for an edit. You should write your own answer to include your major points. | |
| Jul 30, 2018 at 19:05 | review | Suggested edits | |||
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 23:41 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 23:04 | comment | added | Schwern | @einpoklum Let's continue this in chat. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 23:01 | comment | added | einpoklum | @Schwern: We see that almost all of Starfleet, including the high command, are Human. And the presidency or the overall Federation government is a weak institution, subject to influence by the military and does not intervene nor is even mentioned in most of the Federations' dealings, internal and external. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 23:00 | comment | added | Schwern | I'm going to call a halt on this comment thread, it's gone well beyond what is relevant to the question or answer, and drifting well out of canon. I'm happy to chat more about it and have made a chat room for the purpose. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:58 | comment | added | Schwern | @einpoklum "I'd prefer canon sources if possible." (-_-) Dragging this back to canon, we don't have much to go on. We don't see normal Federation citizens much in Star Trek. Often they're people who have reason to interact with Starfleet: explorers, colonists, family, haulers. I'd say DS9 is when we see the most depictions of normal citizenry, particularly at Sisko's, and they seem pretty free and happy. Homefront deals with Starfleet's brush with authoritarianism and Starfleet decides it's not worth it, even in time of war. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:57 | comment | added | einpoklum | @Schwern: The fact that the Federation has an ideology/proganda line with lofty principles should not blind you to the nature of its institutions. It is also important to see through Roddenberry and the show-runners' rosy-spectacle depiction of the Federation and the adventures of its military exploration vessels. You brought up DS9 - a fine example of how the Federation essentially took over Bajor from the Cardassians, meddling in its politics and religion and militarily controlling its space from orbit. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:50 | comment | added | Schwern | @JonCuster I've added some more detail about that to the answer. Reading through the Coast Guard's official duties they line up extremely well with Starfleet. Its "military" in name and trappings, but distinctly different in duty and role from the Navy. That's what Roddenberry envisioned. I'd say TNG Starfleet is like the Coast Guard + NOAA + NASA. Bringing this back to the answer, the point stands that Starfleet, like the Coast Guard, does not undergo the wild expansion and contraction that 20th century militaries do. So they don't get top heavy on officers in peacetime. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:43 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add more detail of what distinguishes the Coast Guard from traditional military.
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:36 | comment | added | Schwern | @JonCuster I stand corrected on the technicality. Yes, the Coast Guard was formed as "a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times". However it was under the Dept of the Treasury, not the War Department (nor it's successor the DoD). I think it's a great analogy of the line the Starfleet straddles, and keep in mind this is Roddenbury's analogy. It's duties are outlined here. uscode.house.gov/… Critically, while armed its purpose was not to make war. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:32 | comment | added | Jon Custer | @Schwern - gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title14/pdf/… - Title 14: "The Coast Guard, established January 28, 1915, shall be a military service and a branch of the armed forces of the United States at all times." | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:25 | comment | added | Jon Custer | @Schwern - their web site starts with "The Coast Guard is one of our nation’s five military services." I'll take their word for it. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:18 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:17 | comment | added | Schwern | @JonCuster It is government, but not military. It started under the Dept of Treasury, then in 1967 the Dept of Transportation. In 2003 it became part of Homeland Security, still civilian and well after TNG was done. In 2006 became allowed to be drafted by the Navy, but only in times of war. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Coast_Guard | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:13 | comment | added | Schwern | @einpoklum I've added some more supporting for why Starfleet is not a military. Remember, much of the DS9 Dominion War plot is about Starfleet struggling to effectively defend the Federation without giving up it principles and slipping into military tropes. Finally, whether or not you define it as a military, the answer still stands: you can't just project 20th century military and societal ways of thinking onto 24th century Starfleet. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:13 | comment | added | Jon Custer | @Schwern - Since the US Coast Guard is explicitly part of the Armed Forces, your comparison doesn’t make sense... | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 22:10 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add more about why Starfleet is not a military.
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 21:53 | comment | added | Schwern | @einpoklum While Starfleet is structured with ranks and naval traditions and has a defense role, it is not military. Roddenberry called it something more akin to the US Coast Guard and TNG exemplifies that. Picard said "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth. Whether it's scientific truth, or historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle upon which Starfleet is based." (The First Duty) which is not the first duty of a soldier. He also flatly states "Starfleet is not a military organization, its purpose is exploration." (Peak Performance) | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 21:44 | comment | added | einpoklum | "Starfleet is not a military organization"? It is most definitely a military organization, particularly with respect to structure and rank. It's just that the Federation is a highly-militarized society at the inter-planetary level, so many functions which are non-military in essence have been taken over by the military. | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 21:39 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add a section on canon episodes dealing with promotion.
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 21:33 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 8:23 | comment | added | PLL | @hyde: Come on, the discrimination against non-humans in tech is established now beyond any reasonable doubt! | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 7:12 | comment | added | hyde | "Except for everybody, not just white human males." seems rather unnecessary, confusing, possibly confrontational piece of text... I'm not even sure which way you intend it to be interpreted (and this isn't the forum for explaining that, so no need to clarify). | |
| Jul 16, 2018 at 5:48 | history | edited | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 16, 2018 at 5:42 | history | answered | Schwern | CC BY-SA 4.0 |