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Jack
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Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points on detect balance. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcialtypical 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitallyinitially, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simplicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points on detect balance. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simplicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points on detect balance. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typical 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points initially, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simplicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

added 130 characters in body
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Nobody the Hobgoblin
  • 128.9k
  • 17
  • 372
  • 770

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points on detect balance. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simpicitysimplicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simpicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points on detect balance. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simplicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

deleted 2 characters in body
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Laurel
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  • 2
  • 21
  • 43

Still seems very elaborate

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. PublishdedPublished Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simpicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Publishded Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simpicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Still seems very elaborate

Level 3

You provide three features. Published Bard subclasses tend to have only two, College of Swords has 3, so high end but OK.

Thasha's Hideous Laughter (THL): Adding a known spell is not listed directly, but it seems this is no stronger than adding a spell and slot 1/day, which is worth 2 points. The scaling for higher levels increases the utility without making it overpowered.

No heckling: A added cantrip is worth 2 points on detect balance.

Being able to cast it as a Bonus Action conditional on a miss: increases the overall damage output, with a typcial 35% miss chance, and 60% fail chance on saves, adds 0.5-2 expected damage per attack. Attacks are very common, and Detect Balance scores Advantage on common rolls with 8 points. Here you impose Disadvantage after about 20% of your attacks. This would be worth about 2 points intitally, and with multiple affected attacks, a multiple of that later.

Roast: maybe comparable to cutting words, with more duration and less in-combat application.

It seems power level here is roughly in line with a Lore Bard who gets 3 Skills, worth 8 points, and Cutting Words. I'm not sure about the disadvantage which feels quite strong, you should test it.

Level 6

You again provide 3 features. Nearly all published colleges have just one, College of Creation two. Many are very simple and short. Lore has one short paragraph, Valor has 2 lines of text. 3 is too many, I think. Elegance in design comes from simpicity.

Maybe the issue is that you are trying to overload Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to a point where the effect has not much in common with the simple first level spell it once was, with areas of effect, dropping concentration, extra range, psychic damage, etc. pp. I also think dropping concentration on an effect that possibly removes multiple opponents from combat is very dangerous.

Maybe do something simpler, like "You are Killing it" as a reskinned Hypnotic Pattern domain spell that has targets bend over in painful laughter and deals a bit psychic to soften them up?

Level 14

A reskinning of an existing level 14 college effect by definition should be balanced, if there are no broken interactions with other features. And this does fit the theme nicely.

I don't know if you have the stomach or interest to go through a 4th iteration, or just try yours as is and see how it goes. Have fun.

Source Link
Nobody the Hobgoblin
  • 128.9k
  • 17
  • 372
  • 770
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