Timeline for Are these homebrew metallic/chromatic pseudodragons the same CR as RAW pseudodragons?
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| Jun 16, 2020 at 10:23 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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| Dec 18, 2019 at 8:37 | vote | accept | NathanS | ||
| Dec 17, 2019 at 11:43 | comment | added | NathanS | Thanks. I've tweaked the wording slightly so that it makes sense on it's own without my comments being included. I just didn't want to lose that advice if these comments all get moved to chat. | |
| Dec 17, 2019 at 11:38 | history | edited | NathanS | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 17, 2019 at 11:34 | comment | added | Theik | @NathanS Not at all, go ahead. | |
| Dec 17, 2019 at 7:48 | comment | added | Theik | It can deal up to 12 damage in a roll, that is enough to insta-KO most first level characters. It might leave a Barbarian or a Fighter standing (if it's a fighter with 14+ con or a barbarian with 0+ con), but those are the exceptions. You have to remember that a CR 1/4 creature is considered not a major threat on its own. Something that can instantly down half your party and possibly your entire party if you're not built in a tanky fashion is way scarier than, for example, a single goblin. In addition, kiting -is- a threat. Not every party has access to easy ranged attacks. | |
| Dec 17, 2019 at 7:44 | comment | added | Shane |
My point is that There's a good chance at least some party members will fail that, and that means they lose, on average, 7 HP. That is enough to down squishier level 1 party members. is true. But the crux of your answer is that With a lucky roll, there's a good chance it could knock out an entire first level party in a single breath weapon. Those two things are not the same. Needing a single lucky roll leading to a TPK is simply 100% not even close to true. You need a lucky roll, everyone to fail saves, everyone to stand together. And kiting isn't even a remote threat.
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| Dec 16, 2019 at 21:40 | comment | added | Theik | I am not suggesting that the pseudodragon is on the same playing field as an ogre, but a single pseudodragon with a breath weapon is way more dangerous than other CR 1/4 monsters. They have a proficiency of +2, +1 Con, so it's a DC11 save. There's a good chance at least some party members will fail that, and that means they lose, on average, 7 HP. That is enough to down squishier level 1 party members. This is far more likely to kill people than a similar CR creature like a goblin, for example. If you feel it is a balanced CR1/4 creature, go ahead and use it. I don't think it is. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 19:43 | comment | added | Shane | Damage cantrips have 60ft range. Breath weapns are 15-30ft. There's a much better chance the Fauxpseudodragon will be dead before it enters range to fire than it will kill a single PC. Never mind the whole party. Even kiting is only a problem if your party has zero bow weapons and spellcasters. Which case, they're gonna be wiped sooner rather than later regardless. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 19:36 | comment | added | Shane | Did you forget that Breath weapons have saving throws? An ogre can TPK a party unless the party is some combination of good and/or lucky. Ogres can one shot a character every turn if they do 50% of their max damage and they have enough HP to survive multiple turns. This FauxPseudodragon can only kill on turn 1, and only if the party is stupidly clumped together and the dragon rolls MAX damage and the party ALL fail their DC9 save. Even then, there's a chance your meatshields will stay up. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 18:57 | comment | added | Phlarx | Another option would be to consider changing the range for the breath weapon; maybe they can only manage a 5-foot line/cone (so, a single square), for example. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 15:24 | comment | added | Theik | @NathanS It's most likely not that big a deal, I doubt it'll be more impressive than invisible scouts. Familiars used for combat purposes tend to be dead familiars before long. It'll be good for killing some goblins every now and then, but it'll be costly to keep resummoning your dead familiar. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 15:04 | comment | added | NathanS | That's good to know, thanks. I was also wondering, do you have any thoughts about a Pact of the Chain warlock having one of these as a familiar (either as presented in the question, or the weakened version we discussed here in the comments)? | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 14:48 | comment | added | Theik | If the attack is once per short rest instead of recharge, it'll at least make it a lot more manageable because it can't hit and run. Also reducing the damage to 1d6 may very well be enough to keep it around roughly the same challenge rating. It'll at least no longer be something I'd really dread fighting. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 14:27 | comment | added | NathanS | These are good points. It sounds like tweaks won't really help with this (i.e. removing "Keen Senses", etc, won't make any difference); it's the fact that it has an AOE and a fly speed that make it inherently strong. I guess it's looking more like a CR 1 creature then? And reducing the breath weapon damage (to, say, 1d6), and maybe having it "once per short rest" rather then "Recharge 6" wouldn't really help reduce that back down to CR 1/4? | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 14:25 | history | edited | NathanS | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Dec 16, 2019 at 14:05 | comment | added | Carcer | Excellent point. With the ability to hit at range with the breath weapon and kite foes, a tactically aware pseudodragon would practically be way more dangerous, at least to a very low level party. | |
| Dec 16, 2019 at 13:59 | history | answered | Theik | CC BY-SA 4.0 |