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K. M
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Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a quarterstaff, we hit with the quarterstaff once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d8 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d4 = 7 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average damage

This homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 13 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases.

level 1 with quarterstaff (using flurry of blows):

1d8 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 9.5 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 18.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is almost a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 11.5 average damage

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. Originally I was musing that #2 has no disadvantage anymore at level 5, but it turns out that it's not so. Much later, at level 11, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any monk weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter and #2 becomes strict upside. But hey, TIL that monks have access to 1d8 weapons! This DPS discrepancy will grow one more time at level 17 whenas the martial arts attack upgrades to 1d10proficiency bonus increases.

*** edit: I did not realize this was replacing a subclass, lol. I guess it might be balanced, then, at level 3 forwards when other subclasses get their effects. I'll leave all this math here anyway, but it's worth noting in addition to not getting anything until level 3, monk subclasses like Way of the Open Hand usually grant abilities or conditional bonuses. Way of the Open Hand lets you do a thing when you use flurry of blows. Your subclass gives the player a pile of properties (some drawback, but most advantageous) that are always passively on. This is interesting as a break from tradition, but it makes it hard to balance. How much passive always-on damage is worth being able to have Way of the Open Hand's effect on flurry of blows? Who knows? I don't know.

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a quarterstaff, we hit with the quarterstaff once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d8 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d4 = 7 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average damage

This homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 13 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases.

level 1 with quarterstaff (using flurry of blows):

1d8 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 9.5 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 18.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is almost a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 11.5 average damage

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. Originally I was musing that #2 has no disadvantage anymore at level 5, but it turns out that it's not so. Much later, at level 11, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any monk weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter and #2 becomes strict upside. But hey, TIL that monks have access to 1d8 weapons! This DPS discrepancy will grow one more time at level 17 when the martial arts attack upgrades to 1d10.

*** edit: I did not realize this was replacing a subclass, lol. I guess it might be balanced, then, at level 3 forwards when other subclasses get their effects. I'll leave all this math here anyway, but it's worth noting in addition to not getting anything until level 3, monk subclasses like Way of the Open Hand usually grant abilities or conditional bonuses. Way of the Open Hand lets you do a thing when you use flurry of blows. Your subclass gives the player a pile of properties (some drawback, but most advantageous) that are always passively on. This is interesting as a break from tradition, but it makes it hard to balance. How much passive always-on damage is worth being able to have Way of the Open Hand's effect on flurry of blows? Who knows? I don't know.

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a quarterstaff, we hit with the quarterstaff once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d8 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d4 = 7 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average damage

This homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 13 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases.

level 1 with quarterstaff (using flurry of blows):

1d8 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 9.5 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 18.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is almost a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 11.5 average damage

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. Originally I was musing that #2 has no disadvantage anymore at level 5, but it turns out that it's not so. Much later, at level 11, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any monk weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter and #2 becomes strict upside. But hey, TIL that monks have access to 1d8 weapons! This DPS discrepancy will grow as the proficiency bonus increases.

*** edit: I did not realize this was replacing a subclass, lol. I guess it might be balanced, then, at level 3 forwards when other subclasses get their effects. I'll leave all this math here anyway, but it's worth noting in addition to not getting anything until level 3, monk subclasses like Way of the Open Hand usually grant abilities or conditional bonuses. Way of the Open Hand lets you do a thing when you use flurry of blows. Your subclass gives the player a pile of properties (some drawback, but most advantageous) that are always passively on. This is interesting as a break from tradition, but it makes it hard to balance. How much passive always-on damage is worth being able to have Way of the Open Hand's effect on flurry of blows? Who knows? I don't know.

deleted 131 characters in body
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K. M
  • 471
  • 2
  • 6

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a shortswordquarterstaff, we hit with the shortswordquarterstaff once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d61d8 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with shortswordquarterstaff:

1d61d8 + 1d4 = 67 average damage

YourThis homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 1213 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases. Your homebrew would be increasing average damage by about 25%. This is the situation where #2 is the LEAST degenerate, as we haven't had many of our monk stuff kick in yet. Also, what if we use flurry of blows?

level 1 with shortswordquarterstaff (using flurry of blows):

1d61d8 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 89.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 1718.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is a bit more thanalmost a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with shortswordquarterstaff:

1d61d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 1011.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. AtOriginally I was musing that #2 has no disadvantage anymore at level 5, but it turns out that it's not so. Much later, at level 11, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any monk weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter, so and #2 has no meaningful downside anymorebecomes strict upside. It's just free damageBut hey, and a lot of itTIL that monks have access to 1d8 weapons! TheThis DPS discrepancy will only grow with levels as our ability mod caps outone more time at +5 while our proficiency andlevel 17 when the martial attacks continuearts attack upgrades to get bigger1d10.

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a shortsword, we hit with the shortsword once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d6 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d4 = 6 average damage

Your homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 12 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases. Your homebrew would be increasing average damage by about 25%. This is the situation where #2 is the LEAST degenerate, as we haven't had many of our monk stuff kick in yet. Also, what if we use flurry of blows?

level 1 with shortsword (using flurry of blows):

1d6 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 8.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 17.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is a bit more than a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 10.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. At level 5, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter, so #2 has no meaningful downside anymore. It's just free damage, and a lot of it! The DPS discrepancy will only grow with levels as our ability mod caps out at +5 while our proficiency and martial attacks continue to get bigger.

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a quarterstaff, we hit with the quarterstaff once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d8 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d4 = 7 average damage

This homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 13 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases.

level 1 with quarterstaff (using flurry of blows):

1d8 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 9.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 18.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is almost a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with quarterstaff:

1d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 11.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. Originally I was musing that #2 has no disadvantage anymore at level 5, but it turns out that it's not so. Much later, at level 11, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any monk weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter and #2 becomes strict upside. But hey, TIL that monks have access to 1d8 weapons! This DPS discrepancy will grow one more time at level 17 when the martial arts attack upgrades to 1d10.

added 992 characters in body
Source Link
K. M
  • 471
  • 2
  • 6

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balancedbalanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average dpsdamage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the dpsdamage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a shortsword, we hit with the shortsword once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d6 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d4 = 6 average dpsdamage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average dpsdamage

Your homebrew increases our average dpsdamage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, your homebrew would be increasing average dps by about 25% (since we'd have 12 average dpsdamage vs 15 average dpsdamage in thethese two cases above, adding ability mods). Your homebrew would be increasing average damage by about 25%. This is the situation where #2 is the LEAST degenerate, as we haven't had many of our monkymonk stuff kick in yet. Also, what if we use flurry of blows?

level 1 with shortsword (using flurry of blows):

1d6 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 8.5 average dpsdamage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average dpsdamage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 17.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is a bit more than a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 10.5 average dpsdamage

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average dpsdamage

An even bigger increase. At level 5, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter, so #2 has no meaningful downside anymore. It's just free damage, and a lot of it! The DPS discrepancy will only grow with levels as our ability mod caps out at +5 while our proficiency and martial attacks continue to get bigger.

*** edit: I did not realize this was replacing a subclass, lol. I guess it might be balanced, then, at level 3 forwards when other subclasses get their effects. I'll leave all this math here anyway, but it's worth noting in addition to not getting anything until level 3, monk subclasses like Way of the Open Hand usually grant abilities or conditional bonuses. Way of the Open Hand lets you do a thing when you use flurry of blows. Your subclass gives the player a pile of properties (some drawback, but most advantageous) that are always passively on. This is interesting as a break from tradition, but it makes it hard to balance. How much passive always-on damage is worth being able to have Way of the Open Hand's effect on flurry of blows? Who knows? I don't know.

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average dps. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the dps values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a shortsword, we hit with the shortsword once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d6 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d4 = 6 average dps

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average dps

Your homebrew increases our average dps by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, your homebrew would be increasing average dps by about 25% (since we'd have 12 average dps vs 15 average dps in the two cases above, adding ability mods). This is the situation where #2 is the LEAST degenerate, as we haven't had many of our monky stuff kick in yet. Also, what if we use flurry of blows?

level 1 with shortsword (using flurry of blows):

1d6 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 8.5 average dps

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average dps

An even bigger increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 10.5 average dps

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average dps

An even bigger increase. At level 5, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter, so #2 has no meaningful downside anymore. It's just free damage, and a lot of it!

Adding profiency to your damage roles is not even remotely balanced***. Your to-hit chance between unarmed vs weapon attacks is the same, so to compare balance for #2 between regular monk and your homebrew all we need to compare is average damage. We can assume hit rate is 100% for the sake of comparison because of this, but of course the damage values I will post here are not real world ones, and are only accurate relative to each other. So for example, at level 1 with a shortsword, we hit with the shortsword once and hit with our unarmed once, dealing 1d6 + (whichever ability mod) for the first and 1d4 + (whichever ability mod) for the second. With your homebrew, we would instead hit for 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) for the first attack and 1d4 + 2 + (whichever ability mod) again for the second attack. As you can see, for the sake of comparison we can remove the ability mods because they remain constant, which I will do so in the following formulas.

level 1 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d4 = 6 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 9 average damage

Your homebrew increases our average damage by 3 at level 1. If our ability mod was +3, we'd have 12 average damage vs 15 average damage in these two cases. Your homebrew would be increasing average damage by about 25%. This is the situation where #2 is the LEAST degenerate, as we haven't had many of our monk stuff kick in yet. Also, what if we use flurry of blows?

level 1 with shortsword (using flurry of blows):

1d6 + 1d4 + 1d4 = 8.5 average damage

level 1 with proficiency added to dmg rolls (using flurry of blows):

1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d4 + 2 = 13.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. If our ability mod was +3, we'd be at 17.5 damage vs 22.5 damage, which is a bit more than a 25% increase. What happens at higher levels?

level 5 with shortsword:

1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 = 10.5 average damage

level 5 with proficiency added to dmg rolls:

1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 + 3 = 19.5 average damage

An even bigger increase. At level 5, our martial arts attacks are as big or bigger than any weapon's base attacks, so the weapon stats no longer matter, so #2 has no meaningful downside anymore. It's just free damage, and a lot of it! The DPS discrepancy will only grow with levels as our ability mod caps out at +5 while our proficiency and martial attacks continue to get bigger.

*** edit: I did not realize this was replacing a subclass, lol. I guess it might be balanced, then, at level 3 forwards when other subclasses get their effects. I'll leave all this math here anyway, but it's worth noting in addition to not getting anything until level 3, monk subclasses like Way of the Open Hand usually grant abilities or conditional bonuses. Way of the Open Hand lets you do a thing when you use flurry of blows. Your subclass gives the player a pile of properties (some drawback, but most advantageous) that are always passively on. This is interesting as a break from tradition, but it makes it hard to balance. How much passive always-on damage is worth being able to have Way of the Open Hand's effect on flurry of blows? Who knows? I don't know.

Source Link
K. M
  • 471
  • 2
  • 6
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