Timeline for The end of open-ended puzzles
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
26 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Jun 17, 2020 at 8:22 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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| Jan 27, 2020 at 14:23 | vote | accept | Brandon_J | ||
| May 3, 2019 at 12:50 | comment | added | Omega Krypton | noted, thanks. I'll avoid those next time... ;) | |
| May 3, 2019 at 12:42 | comment | added | Deusovi Mod | @OmegaKrypton No, that is not okay under this policy -- it's exactly the type of open-ended question we're talking about. | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 10:36 | comment | added | Deusovi Mod | @ais523 Ah, makes sense! | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 9:52 | comment | added | ais523 | @Deusovi: sorry, I meant "we" to refer to codegolf (my "main site" on Stack Exchange, although not on this account), not Puzzling (which I agree is the obvious reading, but you can't edit comments). | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 9:29 | comment | added | Deusovi Mod | @ais523 "we're so set up for handling open-ended posts" -- is that supposed to be "non-open-ended"? I can't make sense of your comment without that. | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 9:28 | comment | added | Deusovi Mod | @Shinjo We've tried mandating a sandbox for often-poorly-made puzzles before. It did not go well. | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 8:12 | comment | added | Shinjo | Probably try to do what the codegolf have done? Make a whole meta post for proposed open ended puzzle which are thoroughly discussed and approved. If they're not if they end up being worse you could closed for being too broad? | |
| Apr 29, 2019 at 7:00 | comment | added | ais523 | @Barker: codegolf.stackexchange.com has actually been strongly deprecating all the puzzles (i.e. one intended solution with no open-endedness); the "programming puzzles" in its name turn out to be better handled at Puzzling, because we're so set up for handling open-ended posts. I can't see any reason why having a clear contrast between the two sites would be a bad thing in this regard, because things like the site rules on meta need to be quite different in the two situations. (A simple example: on codegolf accepting answers is rare and looked down on, here it's almost mandatory.) | |
| Apr 26, 2019 at 22:56 | comment | added | Deusovi Mod | @Barker Yes, I agree that it is a direction the site could go. I never claimed we couldn't do it due to Stack Exchange standards, just that it would be bad for the site and go against some of the goals we have. | |
| Apr 26, 2019 at 22:50 | comment | added | Barker | I'd like to disagree with your first two points at least as far as Stack Exchange standards go. There is an entire code golf forum where there is no definitive "best" answer and the chosen response is comparative to the other answers. It is one thing to say we don't want puzzling to be that way, but it clearly isn't a violation of Stack Exchange norms. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:51 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @Deusovi I'd like to ask you to read over our chat conversation. I think you may find our discussion helpful in evaluating your answer. These two messages are perhaps of the utmost concern: 1, 2 (though the context around them is also important, of course). | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:10 | comment | added | HTM | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:09 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @PiIsNot3 So most match stick puzzles should be removed? This word puzzle should be closed? It seems to me like many popular, accepted puzzles have no provable single answer. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:05 | comment | added | HTM | @jpmc26 It’s an unwritten rule on PSE that all puzzles must have a justifiably best solution. Allowing accepted answers to be beaten by “better” ones goes against this rule, as Deusovi alludes to. Perhaps that section of the post should be moved to the top to make the point clearer. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:01 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @PiIsNot3 The core of your point seems to be: "Most questions tagged open-ended don’t have that level of rigor and instead devolve into a game of 'what loopholes can I exploit that give a technically correct answer.'" That's a fine objection to the tag, but it has nothing to do with making one answer invalid by posting another one. As I said, I don't have any answers for whether the tag is bad or not; I just found the first argument to be very flawed, which hurts the persuasiveness of this answer. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 7:01 | comment | added | HTM | In contrast, optimization problems are often grounded in math and logic, two subjects that have very clear-cut rules that don’t allow many loopholes. So that’s the difference between optimization and open-ended (or at least, what my understanding of the difference between the two is). | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 6:59 | comment | added | HTM | @jpmc26 The big issue with that is no single rule or even set of rules is enough to guarantee there be a single correct answer. For “longest word/sentence” type problems, the answer changes depending on what dictionaries you use and which words you allow. For “formation of numbers” problems, you have to define which operations to allow, what constructs are valid/invalid, etc. etc. Most questions tagged open-ended don’t have that level of rigor and instead devolve into a game of “what loopholes can I exploit that give a technically correct answer.” | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 6:46 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @PiIsNot3 The definition states that, "answers are ranked by some sort of rule." This rule is the "function" to be optimized, even if it's not presented as a formal mathematical function. By definition, it would seem that all open ended questions must be optimization problems of some kind, though they may not be provably optimized. Regardless, my point is that answers are still not invalidated by a new, higher ranked (according to the rule) answer being given. They're only invalid if they fail to meet the other constraints. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 6:29 | comment | added | HTM | @jpmc26 not all open-ended questions are optimization problems. Optimization problems have a provably optimal solution, while most open-ended questions have an arbitrary set of criteria to determine the “best” solution. Optimization is OK; open-ended is not. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 4:59 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @noedne Are you sure? Less optimal answers are often important steps in reaching the optimal one. | |
| Apr 24, 2019 at 1:50 | comment | added | noedne | @jpmc26 The partial crossword is part of the completed crossword, but the non-optimal answer to the open-ended problem might have nothing to do with the optimal answer. | |
| Apr 23, 2019 at 20:57 | comment | added | jpmc26 | "...then Answer A is retroactively no longer a correct answer." How so? It's not wrong unless it doesn't solve the problem posed in the question; it's just no longer the optimal one. Someone can still solve the puzzle later and try to optimize their answer; they just might not come up with the most optimized answer. I don't see a non-optimal answer as any different than a partially solved crossword. The answerer got partway there, just not all the way. (I don't know what's best for this site, but that point just seems wrong to me.) | |
| Apr 23, 2019 at 12:26 | comment | added | Brandon_J | Soooo.....when do we reach consensus? | |
| Apr 21, 2019 at 5:46 | history | answered | DeusoviMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |