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wolfsshield
wolfsshield
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Same/Sameness is related to identity. The inability to distinguish one fromTo Start:

Q1 "What city has the other.Tower of London?"

A: "London"

Equal/Equality is aboutQ2 "What city has Big Ben?"

A: "London"

...having the relationship between elementssame answer does not always imply equality, and is a comparison - typically of value or wortheven identity or sameness.

Same/Sameness is related to identity. The inability to distinguish one from the other.

Equal/Equality is about the relationship between elements, and is a comparison - typically of value or worth

"I had tea at lunch" "At lunch, I had tea" <= mean the same thing...meaning is identical, form is different: thus equal not same

1+3=4 2+2=4 : equal, not same 1+3=4 3+1=4 : equal and mathematically same because order of operations doesn't matter however sometimes order does matter but then it wouldn't be equal.

ToMathematically: To be the same, you must be equal - in value/result/purpose.

howeverExistence: To be the same, you must be equal - in all metrics (save change over time in the context of "I'm not the same person I was then" - because you are the same identity just you possess different characteristics now).

However you can be equal without being the same.

Sameness and equality also vary by context as to how they play out.

Consider people. You want to be treated equally with everyone, but you don't want to be treated the same as everyone. If Bob likes fish and Joe likes beef, and both want to be treated to an equal meal would you give them the same meal (either fish, beef, or something else that one or both might not like) or do you give them equal meals (Bob gets $10 of fish, Joe $10 beef - assuming equal here is in monetary value rather than mass).

Equal also changes on point of reference. Two people could be equal because they receive the same salary for the same job. But those same two people might not be equal at an amusement park because of some other metric (one's too short or wide for the ride, or too young/old or light/heavy or unhealthy or pregnant or some other limiting factor).

The difference between same and equal is part of the reason it so difficult to nail down fairness. You may treat everyone equal with regard to metric X, but one individual maybe evaluating on metric Y and another on metric Z and neither of them think you've been fair.

Whereas if you treat them the same, again they may not view that as equal or fair. Example: I give out "one-size-fits-all" uniforms, to save money I make them all small, perfect for a a person 5'8" with a particular build. I have personnel that range from thin to fat from 4'6" to 7'2". They all get identical uniforms (nothing observable from the naked eye to discern their differences). Have I treated my people fairly? I gave them the same thing. I didn't give consideration to anything about the individuals I did not discriminate. Yet, while treating them all the same, I have in some metric treated them equally, but with the intent to be that they wear the uniform, I did not treat them fairly, for by most metrics I did not treat them equally.

Same/Sameness is related to identity. The inability to distinguish one from the other.

Equal/Equality is about the relationship between elements, and is a comparison - typically of value or worth

"I had tea at lunch" "At lunch, I had tea" <= mean the same thing...meaning is identical, form is different: thus equal not same

1+3=4 2+2=4 : equal, not same 1+3=4 3+1=4 : equal and mathematically same because order of operations doesn't matter however sometimes order does matter but then it wouldn't be equal.

To be the same, you must be equal.

however you can be equal without being the same.

Consider people. You want to be treated equally with everyone, but you don't want to be treated the same as everyone. If Bob likes fish and Joe likes beef, and both want to be treated to an equal meal would you give them the same meal (either fish, beef, or something else that one or both might not like) or do you give them equal meals (Bob gets $10 of fish, Joe $10 beef - assuming equal here is in monetary value rather than mass).

Equal also changes on point of reference. Two people could be equal because they receive the same salary for the same job. But those same two people might not be equal at an amusement park because of some other metric (one's too short or wide for the ride, or too young/old or light/heavy or unhealthy or pregnant or some other limiting factor).

The difference between same and equal is part of the reason it so difficult to nail down fairness. You may treat everyone equal with regard to metric X, but one individual maybe evaluating on metric Y and another on metric Z and neither of them think you've been fair.

Whereas if you treat them the same, again they may not view that as equal or fair. Example: I give out "one-size-fits-all" uniforms, to save money I make them all small, perfect for a a person 5'8" with a particular build. I have personnel that range from thin to fat from 4'6" to 7'2". They all get identical uniforms (nothing observable from the naked eye to discern their differences). Have I treated my people fairly? I gave them the same thing. I didn't give consideration to anything about the individuals I did not discriminate. Yet, while treating them all the same, I have in some metric treated them equally, but with the intent to be that they wear the uniform, I did not treat them fairly, for by most metrics I did not treat them equally.

To Start:

Q1 "What city has the Tower of London?"

A: "London"

Q2 "What city has Big Ben?"

A: "London"

...having the same answer does not always imply equality, or even identity or sameness.

Same/Sameness is related to identity. The inability to distinguish one from the other.

Equal/Equality is about the relationship between elements, and is a comparison - typically of value or worth

"I had tea at lunch" "At lunch, I had tea" <= mean the same thing...meaning is identical, form is different: thus equal not same

1+3=4 2+2=4 : equal, not same 1+3=4 3+1=4 : equal and mathematically same because order of operations doesn't matter however sometimes order does matter but then it wouldn't be equal.

Mathematically: To be the same, you must be equal - in value/result/purpose.

Existence: To be the same, you must be equal - in all metrics (save change over time in the context of "I'm not the same person I was then" - because you are the same identity just you possess different characteristics now).

However you can be equal without being the same.

Sameness and equality also vary by context as to how they play out.

Consider people. You want to be treated equally with everyone, but you don't want to be treated the same as everyone. If Bob likes fish and Joe likes beef, and both want to be treated to an equal meal would you give them the same meal (either fish, beef, or something else that one or both might not like) or do you give them equal meals (Bob gets $10 of fish, Joe $10 beef - assuming equal here is in monetary value rather than mass).

Equal also changes on point of reference. Two people could be equal because they receive the same salary for the same job. But those same two people might not be equal at an amusement park because of some other metric (one's too short or wide for the ride, or too young/old or light/heavy or unhealthy or pregnant or some other limiting factor).

The difference between same and equal is part of the reason it so difficult to nail down fairness. You may treat everyone equal with regard to metric X, but one individual maybe evaluating on metric Y and another on metric Z and neither of them think you've been fair.

Whereas if you treat them the same, again they may not view that as equal or fair. Example: I give out "one-size-fits-all" uniforms, to save money I make them all small, perfect for a a person 5'8" with a particular build. I have personnel that range from thin to fat from 4'6" to 7'2". They all get identical uniforms (nothing observable from the naked eye to discern their differences). Have I treated my people fairly? I gave them the same thing. I didn't give consideration to anything about the individuals I did not discriminate. Yet, while treating them all the same, I have in some metric treated them equally, but with the intent to be that they wear the uniform, I did not treat them fairly, for by most metrics I did not treat them equally.

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wolfsshield
wolfsshield
  • 121
  • 3

Same/Sameness is related to identity. The inability to distinguish one from the other.

Equal/Equality is about the relationship between elements, and is a comparison - typically of value or worth

"I had tea at lunch" "At lunch, I had tea" <= mean the same thing...meaning is identical, form is different: thus equal not same

1+3=4 2+2=4 : equal, not same 1+3=4 3+1=4 : equal and mathematically same because order of operations doesn't matter however sometimes order does matter but then it wouldn't be equal.

To be the same, you must be equal.

however you can be equal without being the same.

Consider people. You want to be treated equally with everyone, but you don't want to be treated the same as everyone. If Bob likes fish and Joe likes beef, and both want to be treated to an equal meal would you give them the same meal (either fish, beef, or something else that one or both might not like) or do you give them equal meals (Bob gets $10 of fish, Joe $10 beef - assuming equal here is in monetary value rather than mass).

Equal also changes on point of reference. Two people could be equal because they receive the same salary for the same job. But those same two people might not be equal at an amusement park because of some other metric (one's too short or wide for the ride, or too young/old or light/heavy or unhealthy or pregnant or some other limiting factor).

The difference between same and equal is part of the reason it so difficult to nail down fairness. You may treat everyone equal with regard to metric X, but one individual maybe evaluating on metric Y and another on metric Z and neither of them think you've been fair.

Whereas if you treat them the same, again they may not view that as equal or fair. Example: I give out "one-size-fits-all" uniforms, to save money I make them all small, perfect for a a person 5'8" with a particular build. I have personnel that range from thin to fat from 4'6" to 7'2". They all get identical uniforms (nothing observable from the naked eye to discern their differences). Have I treated my people fairly? I gave them the same thing. I didn't give consideration to anything about the individuals I did not discriminate. Yet, while treating them all the same, I have in some metric treated them equally, but with the intent to be that they wear the uniform, I did not treat them fairly, for by most metrics I did not treat them equally.